thats not really MMO, it's more thinking smart, they didn't stray from their genius path alittle like they did with Achievements, they are paying attention to time spent in game, Valve knows what they are doing, kind of.
It's official. Team Fortress 2,the MMO
- Thread starter fix-the-spade
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Honestly, I don't see what's bad about this. Sure, it's not ideal, but the achievements were worse.
What's the big deal? It's not like the unlockables are so much better than the traditional weapons. You don't need them to be competitive.
And Valve already knows about the MMO thing.
http://www.joystiq.com/2009/05/03/valve-jokingly-drops-mmo-code-into-latest-team-fortress-2-patch/
And Valve already knows about the MMO thing.
http://www.joystiq.com/2009/05/03/valve-jokingly-drops-mmo-code-into-latest-team-fortress-2-patch/
Seems to me like it's fine. It's not like you could get the unlockables if you didn't play for a while every week.
Valve has tried to eliminate acheivement servers by making achievement servers more appealling. Join one and leave your pc on. You'll have all the weapons within 2 days.orannis62 said:
Unsurprisingly, nealry all achievement servers are constantly full, becoming extremely high ranked in the process.
The irony!
I am a little confused by your point, it didn't "add grinding", "grinding" always existed with the achievement unlocks, they just changed the "grind" (which by the way isn't a real grind). Plus, you were gonna play the game anyways right? Maybe for a few hours a day? Well this doesn't change anything, you'll still play the game, and every so often you'll find a weapon.
True it makes the achievements almost useless, but aren't the achievements on the Xbox uselss? Aren't the achievements in almost any other game useless? Yet people still try for them for the fun of it.
It does suck it encourages AFKers, which I hate, but we have the people who would play the achievement servers to get all the unlocks to thank for this. Plus with the new system it means you won't have 1 or 2 guys on a server 30 minutes after the patch that have everything, while everyone else is just trying for them. Also now you can get unlocks for other classes than what you are playing, so no more servers with everyone playing whatever class is the updated one, which in my opinion is a very good thing.
I don't think this really changed a whole lot, the trading could be cool but will most likely not affect anyone, and the super rare items is kind of a neat idea as long as they are not insanely overpowered. Who knows, this whole thing might get changed again, if you are this upset about such a small thing you may want to step back, take a breath, and re-evaluate your standpoint.
True it makes the achievements almost useless, but aren't the achievements on the Xbox uselss? Aren't the achievements in almost any other game useless? Yet people still try for them for the fun of it.
It does suck it encourages AFKers, which I hate, but we have the people who would play the achievement servers to get all the unlocks to thank for this. Plus with the new system it means you won't have 1 or 2 guys on a server 30 minutes after the patch that have everything, while everyone else is just trying for them. Also now you can get unlocks for other classes than what you are playing, so no more servers with everyone playing whatever class is the updated one, which in my opinion is a very good thing.
I don't think this really changed a whole lot, the trading could be cool but will most likely not affect anyone, and the super rare items is kind of a neat idea as long as they are not insanely overpowered. Who knows, this whole thing might get changed again, if you are this upset about such a small thing you may want to step back, take a breath, and re-evaluate your standpoint.
I dislike this new style. But afk gaming must've not been thought of beforehand.
This, essentially, was valve's method of combating achievement servers. Now players can go and play real matches and have still gotten the items they have in the same time; but having fun instead.
Or, they could have joined an idle server and gone to read a book...
I myself have joined an idle server and gone to play a saints row only to look in at my computer occasionally to see if I got anything. Needless to say that was a disappointment. I've also gone and deleted all the duplicates I've gotten.
An effort worthy of praise in fighting off the achievement servers, but the players will do whatever it takes to get what they want in the most convenient manner. 2 extra kritzkriegs out of 7 on this one Valve.
This, essentially, was valve's method of combating achievement servers. Now players can go and play real matches and have still gotten the items they have in the same time; but having fun instead.
Or, they could have joined an idle server and gone to read a book...
I myself have joined an idle server and gone to play a saints row only to look in at my computer occasionally to see if I got anything. Needless to say that was a disappointment. I've also gone and deleted all the duplicates I've gotten.
An effort worthy of praise in fighting off the achievement servers, but the players will do whatever it takes to get what they want in the most convenient manner. 2 extra kritzkriegs out of 7 on this one Valve.
TF2 has been an MMO ever since achievements were first introduced. I find this update hilarious for the rage it induces but lets be honest, this isn't something new.
It's as simple as this: The achievement route is still open. If you really truly hate the new system, go achievement hunting untill you've done everything. Then you'll have earned everything the hard way. This update was added because every time they patched there was an explosion of whatever class they updated. This was to help counter that. This makes the game more accesible and less arduous for many players who don't have as much free time as you lot. And if you really truly hate this, with every fiber of your being, get a console copy in all it's pristine, unpatched glory. Of course, I'd rather the updates got shipped to the console, as I don't have a computer fit to run TF2, which would spoil your utopian playground.
I wasn't angry at the system for a while. I thought "hey, I don't have to grind achievements anymore. Okay. I didn't mind it but at least I won't screw up my stats on achievement servers now."
And then someone got the Huntsman, the only weapon I wanted (I actually wound up having the game on 24/7 and I got it only yesterday. That's about 200 hours of game time before I even got to play with that GOD DAMN BOW. It's awesome and I won't ever play anything but sniper ever again, but I had to wait that long to get it.) and then they stated they only play pyro and wouldn't ever get use out of it.
You see the problem there, don't you? Someone who doesn't want it gets it long before people who will get so much use out of it it might as well be their domestic partner?
Valve is going about this all wrong. They wanted everyone to get the weapons. But they alienated an actual method to get it if you really wanted it. What's the obvious solution here?
JUST GIVE US THE FUCKING WEAPONS.
I'd also like to point out that, since your chances to get the weapon are proportional to the time you play, and I went a solid 200 hours before I got to see The Huntsman (and I'm still waiting on one spy watch and The Ambassador), where do casual players come in for this? Someone who only plays the game maybe fourteen hours a week, factoring in maybe an hour or more on weekdays and some more time on the weekends. They're not going to get to play with all the content from this update until the next one.
EDIT: The system also would've been nicer to implement if it wasn't still broken to this point and preventing a swathe of players from even getting duplicates AT ALL, and if it gave items out at the rate Valve originally intended which might have smoothed this over quite a bit.
And then someone got the Huntsman, the only weapon I wanted (I actually wound up having the game on 24/7 and I got it only yesterday. That's about 200 hours of game time before I even got to play with that GOD DAMN BOW. It's awesome and I won't ever play anything but sniper ever again, but I had to wait that long to get it.) and then they stated they only play pyro and wouldn't ever get use out of it.
You see the problem there, don't you? Someone who doesn't want it gets it long before people who will get so much use out of it it might as well be their domestic partner?
Valve is going about this all wrong. They wanted everyone to get the weapons. But they alienated an actual method to get it if you really wanted it. What's the obvious solution here?
JUST GIVE US THE FUCKING WEAPONS.
I'd also like to point out that, since your chances to get the weapon are proportional to the time you play, and I went a solid 200 hours before I got to see The Huntsman (and I'm still waiting on one spy watch and The Ambassador), where do casual players come in for this? Someone who only plays the game maybe fourteen hours a week, factoring in maybe an hour or more on weekdays and some more time on the weekends. They're not going to get to play with all the content from this update until the next one.
EDIT: The system also would've been nicer to implement if it wasn't still broken to this point and preventing a swathe of players from even getting duplicates AT ALL, and if it gave items out at the rate Valve originally intended which might have smoothed this over quite a bit.
Wow, we aren't allowed to discuss a video game, in the gaming discussion section? Well, SORRY for annoying you your majesty.Strong Intelligent said:
Also, they didn't change it a little, they completely fucked the unlock system, I still have one unlock, and I've played about 15 hours ish.
To you and every other half-wit who thinks they're so clever with the Obama-like "IT'S CHANGE!".Grifmik said:
Imagine you have a very sexy wife... It's likely you never will, but pretend for a second... This is a fantastic woman... Very sexy, very hot, you do her every day for 2 years... Then one day you come home and out of nowhere she's a man. All of her.
You see what we're getting what? IT's NOT "CHANGE". It's "Shitty change for the worse".
I will never empathize with people who cried "ZOMFG I CAN'T GET MY UNLCOSK CAUISE IS 2 HARD!". I will admit the last unlocks were a bit hard sometimes (specially the medic's), but that could easily be solved by tweaking the achievements.
But you know what? If you're not good enough, TOUGH SHIT. It's better to have a system that rewards people for being good at the game than one that throws shit around randomly. Companies need to stop dumbing down their games so the completely inept "don't feel bad for sucking". No. DO feel bad for sucking. You should! That's what drives you to become better.
Well, since the update went live I've played TF2 for about 4-5hours, mostly as Sniper. During that time I've gained 19 achievements, one was bugged so 18 through skill. I like the Sniper, I'm good at it.WithHisHat said:
Yet I have no Sniper unlocks whilst players who couldn't hit a barn door already have all three, why is this fair? What criteria have they fulfilled that I have not? The original point of the achievement unlocks was to get people playing the character, if someone had an unlock you didn't it was very easy to understand why. They were better with that class than you, if you wanted it, play as the character and learn how to use it.
As it stands now the most reliable way to unlock something is to load an achievement server and walk away for twelve hours. It's counter productive, it removes the player from their own unlocks, especially if you have little spare time. Before you could at least gauge how close to things you were and would most likely get something every week or so. Now the system actively punishes you for not having four hours a day to spend playing the game.
I don't like this system as it's left me totally reliant on a time based system to get anything, I don't have much time, it's given me nothing.
Unfortunately the new system is Grind defined (hooray aliteration), the best way to unlock things is to switch on TF2 and leave it alone for a few hours. It pretty much pares grinding down to it's very essence, do nothing, but do it for a really long time.gibboss28 said:
That's been relfected on the server rankings, a map called acievement-idle has suddenly appeared and it's one of the most played at the moment. Three guesses what you do there.
The MMO comment is fair enough, it was as much trolling for a reaction as it is myopinion (and it worked). I think Valve may instigate a semi U-turn over (Right angle turn?). They probably aren't going to ditch the current system and trading, but they might re-instate the milestone achievements.
A bit like market value weapon pricing in CS:S, that's still there but as a server side option now.