John Carmack Says No Dedicated Servers for Rage
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
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Piss and moan and piss and moan, that's all we get for you. Please consider this: THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO TO STOP THIS CHANGE FROM HAPPENING. However you want to quantify the 'dumbing-down' of PC FPS multiplayer is totally irrelevant. Companies will craft their products in ways that they feel make their games easier to control, access, and use. There aren't enough 'hardcore' gamers in the market anymore and for this reason companies can choose to market their products to other people.
CONGRATULATIONS! Your favorite past-time is now mainstream and no one cares about you anymore!
Note: I do want to say that I am completely bummed at the loss of dedicated servers, but to quote Bob Dylan, "The times they are a changing."
CONGRATULATIONS! Your favorite past-time is now mainstream and no one cares about you anymore!
Note: I do want to say that I am completely bummed at the loss of dedicated servers, but to quote Bob Dylan, "The times they are a changing."
Well actually you do have Dedicated servers for L4D, in fact if you are part of a group and the group has their own co-op or versus server you can connect directly to it. As far as L4D is concerned, the matchmaking is pretty good, it's not perfect but hey it's not as bad as MWII getting matchmaking.Caliostro said:
I completely agree with you on your last statement though. We can't judge on id Software's approach to online gaming because we don't know what they will be doing to begin with. They didn't even mention whether or not it's a P2P system yet.
If you don't buy something that you really do want to buy, because something the company did makes it no longer desirable to support them, that is a boycott. And I think that's how a lot of people feel about this. They want to buy the game, they want to enjoy the game, but they just feel they can't support the game in its current form. Sounds like a small scale boycott to me.soliduck said:
Actually that is what a boycott is. Specifically the second definition:http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/boycottsoliduck said:
What's the difference between using a good P2P client and having public dedicated servers though? Odds are, not much in the future.The Rogue Wolf said:
The move to P2P doesn't mean that all of that stuff is automatically going out the window. Personally, I feel that IW's other decisions about the game are bad, but they're not specifically connected to the decision to move to P2P. IW for some reason just doesn't want mods, or console commands. I don't know why that is, but it's something completely separate from their decision to go P2P.
I say wait and see how exactly IW.net is implemented before complaining about it. It might be much better than other all the other P2P systems made so far: in fact, since it apparently uses Steamworks, I'd be willing to bet that it WILL be better than previous systems. Whether it will be good enough to replace dedicated servers, well... that remains to be forseen, but I really wish that people would stop acting like it's the goddamn apocalypse.
That depends on what games we're talking about. Different companies have different approaches to the ways that they handle dedicated servers. Some games run only off of servers the company employs, so when the servers go down: poof, there goes your multiplayer functionality.ReepNeep said:
I honestly don't know how IW.net works or how the previous system worked, I'm not a IW employee: but if they're moving to a different system, odds are that system is either cheaper, more efficient, or both.
Already revealedscotth266 said:
So, the host gets the best ping until they quit, at which point there's a 5 second transition where it jumps to the new host. Remember that players can't be kicked, so a 400 ping can easily be host. You also can't unhost or refuse to host, so some ISPs will get miffed.
When directly asked if MW2 on PC was simply a port of the console version, IW_Mackey responded "No, PC has custom stuff like mouse control, text chat in game, and graphics settings".
Now if console players want as many upgrades for TF2 as the PC version has, perhaps they should be looking hard as this is where/why you're losing them.
Uhh actually Quake Live does use Dedicated Servers. At the moment only id Software is paying for them. The Quake Live premium service will allow you to have your own private servers. To understand what a dedicated server is you must go to the meaning of the words dedicated server.Valiance said:
It literally means that there is a piece of hardware out there dedicated to hosting a game of . Dedicated Servers are hosted at large data-centers where each blade could have up to four servers. Many players who have an extra PC box lying around with a decent internet connection could host their own dedicated server using the software that is often included in PC shooters.
Some games have Dedicated Server software built into the game code itself, others use a separate EXE file that can be executed to host a dedicated server. Even World of WarCraft realm servers could be considered dedicated servers in the sense that they are always up and you can pick and choose what server you play on.
Can I mod it?SuperFriendBFG said:
Can I host my own maps on it?
Can I change the player amount?
Can I kick people during games?
Can I force team balance?
Can I call timeouts?
Oh, wait, no, I can't?
Id has been talking about private servers (private as in I pay for one of their servers) for over a year now, yes?
People have just gotten used to it and not care.
The important features of a dedicated server are lost when it comes to the way that they've been doing things.
You can call timeouts in 1v1 games, but timeouts have no place in public TDM/CA/FFA servers. Once their premium service comes out you'll be able to have such a feature on your own hosted server.Valiance said:
You can't host your own maps, your maps need to be submitted to id. Many popular maps have been added, one good example is Aerowalk.
You cannot kick people during games, only during the warmup phase. Considering the public nature of most servers, I agree with this. Like timeouts you will be able to kick people during games once premiums service (Private servers) come into play.
You can force team balance using the /callvote shuffle command. Although it doesn't necessarily do any actual balancing as opposed to auto-balance features which were never in Q3A to begin with.
You can't mod QLive, no. It's not meant to be modded. The Client/Server format used in QLive doesn't support modding. When it comes to Quake III Arena mods, it has become incredibly difficult for the new players to get into QLive. All but the most veteran Q3 players know where to get their 3Wave mappacks, Rocket Arena 3, OSPDM, and CPMA/Mappacks. QLive seeks to eliminate that possibility.
As far as a dedicated server system, QLive still has a full featured server browser. You can filter games, and you get a list (albeit more graphical list) of current games. Have you ever hosted your own Quake 3 server? To be honest you shouldn't even have any gripes unless you really really want to host a QLive server of your own, which will be coming soon enough.
As far as QLive's premium service itself goes, they have only recently announced it in the past few months. They have already introduced private servers, you can even see them on the server lists. Private servers are only available to leagues at the moment (GGL mainly).
As far as the important features go, honestly QLive isn't missing much. You can pick and choose where to play just fine. The only feature that is missing is the ability to have any gaming community host their own servers, but as mentioned above that feature is coming soon enough.
Let's face it though, QLive is nothing like RAGE. We have absolutely no idea what kind of multiplayer RAGE will have. We don't even know if it's going to even be a deathmatch styled game. Chances are it won't be. In all likelihood it will probably be small-scaled races, and maybe small scaled co-op or team-based combat much like L4D.
That's presuming that the system would choose someone with 400 ping to host, which it wouldn't. As for the other part, yeah, that sorta sucks.The_root_of_all_evil said:
They have vehemently denied that there is a host advantage.
How different do you want the versions to be, really? How much do games on consoles usually differ from their PC counterparts? Usually, it's only those three things, along with mods, console commands, and however the game's multiplayer works. In this case, IW's removed mods and ccs (a bad decision I admit, but they have nothing to do with this discussion), and made the last to be similar/the same as the console version. You're not getting a lesser experience than the console versions: you're just getting the same experience, for the same amount of money that everyone else is.
If PC gamers out there feel that they should get more features due to the nature of the platform, I can dig that: but the amount of hatred and elitism that they've displayed across the forums has turned everyone who isn't a PC gamer against them. The amount of times that quote has been brought up alone would seem to suggest that the PC elitists out there feel that getting anything similar to the console version is an affront to their godly system of choice: THAT is the reason that the console gamers are opposing the PCers.
IW's simply made the multiplayer the same for both console and PC: and while I do think that completely removing dedicated server support was a bad move, the constant whining over a system that hasn't even been released to the general public yet is driving me batshit insane. It reeks of that childhood habit of seeing something green on your plate and going: BUT MOOOOOOOM, I DON'T WANT THIS!
At least try it before you mock it, that's all I want. If it turns out to be a pile of dung, then go ahead and complain: but until then, I don't want to hear any more complaining.
Aerowalk isn't playable yet.SuperFriendBFG said:
Do you mean bloodrun? We had to use a lot of WHINE with our cheese just to get THAT included. Colored 'nades? lol.
I want a server where I can play my own maps, you know?
The private servers are good, at least for CTF, and duel but that's for what, 1% of the community? You need to be on IRC, pm someone who can spawn them, etc, etc, whatever. I could go on, but it's pointless.
You're right: I have no idea what kind of multiplayer RAGE will have. I just hope it's not the empty, broken shell that Quake Live is.
Whatever. It's just Id. I bet Rage is gonna be SUCH a great game.
That said, it would kinda suck if this became the norm.
That said, it would kinda suck if this became the norm.
Another asinine desision from another developer who should know better. Carmack used to work for Activision, so you can see the dead hand of Bobby Kotick in this statement.
All it means is more money for Dice and EA Games. Honestly, some devlopers are to stupid for their own good.
Meanwhile PC gamers, don't worry the PC is still the dominant gaming platform in the world, no matter what the console crowd would have you believe.
This move to consoles is only a temporary affair, in a few years it'll be swinging back toward PC's again, and the xbox and all the rest of them will be consigned to the dustbin of gaming history. i.e. look at all the other consoles that have come and have now gone.
All it means is more money for Dice and EA Games. Honestly, some devlopers are to stupid for their own good.
Meanwhile PC gamers, don't worry the PC is still the dominant gaming platform in the world, no matter what the console crowd would have you believe.
This move to consoles is only a temporary affair, in a few years it'll be swinging back toward PC's again, and the xbox and all the rest of them will be consigned to the dustbin of gaming history. i.e. look at all the other consoles that have come and have now gone.
Hrm... So basically another game I will be passing on. Ah well, what can ya do? I guess it just goes to reinforce the fact that these companies are there to make money, not succumb to every whim that a portion of their customer base demands.