Keep Gaming For Gamers

[The_Deleted]

Ahhhh elitism.

Now, allow me to say this as a hardcore gamer.

When the hardcore asks to be catered to, it asks for the death of the thing it claims to love. Eventually, inevitably, every single hardcore gamer will be lost to time. We will get jobs, and families, or family that we will die. Then who will be left to play games as we have been designing games that are pointlessly complex solely to scare away new players.

If you love something why wouldn't you want more people to enjoy it? No you don't actually care about games in gaming, you just want to be in something small and niche so you can claim to be better than the majority, call everything else lowest common denominator, and in general be an elitist selfish prick. And if gaming dies, you obviously don't care, you'll have a job, or a family, or you'll die either way.

Your scum.

I have no desire to in a small niche group of anything.
I do not want gaming to die nor do I have the punk rock mindset that feels anything of any worth should only cater to the few.
But it's aggressive pricks like you that give gamers a bad name.

 

[The_Deleted]

I hate to use this word, but you, The Deleted, sir, are Elitist.

No.
It's not the acceptance of games that worries me, it's the dumbing down and quick turn around projects that will be released to feed a market that gets bored of a game in a week, doesn't read the media to keep informed and simply goes out o buy the next 'quick buck' game.

 

[Copter400]

Gaschambers? Pfft, what we need are some casualchambers!

That was in horrible taste.

I'm only rising to the occasion.

You've risen. Now get the fuck back down.

 

[black lincon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByPcQBveWOA
go there watch it all i have to say.

 

[The_Deleted]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByPcQBveWOA
go there watch it all i have to say.

Genius!
And, hands up, I can see why I might have come across as the 'fanboy' with the OP.
But just to state !again!, I AM NOT AGAINST ANYONE PLAYING ANYTHING THEY SEE FIT. It was merely an matter for discussion. Which it certainly has been.
Thanks to everyone who got involved but I think black lincoln can claim /thread/ .

 

[crepesack]

ARE YOU GUYS REALLLLY THAT SURE
think a bout it we started playing games as wee littles and back then we thought EVERYTHING was hard and now we are older things are comparatively easier we have grown up, the things that challenged us then dont challenge us anymore. Not olny that but we are old to gaming we know what to expect and, YOU try coming up with gaming concepts that wont take up too much of a busy dev's life and is withing the grasp of todays technology. They are like movies almost everything is bad save for a few. A good analogy, a pile of shit looks bad, a pile of shit with sprinkles on it looks likes some nice fudge

 

[jim_doki]

*metaphoric hat throw*
If i can just pipe up for a second, the reason mainstream games are average piles of unplayability is because that's what the mainstream want, at least according to market research. now, I for one am glad more people are playing video games. It makes me happy that "the last intelligent MEDIUM " is getting out to more people. Gaming is one of those things like Jazz or Indie Cinema that isn't for everybody the first time around. It can sometimes take a few easy experiences to ease into these things. If you're first video game was something stupid hard like Romance of the Three Kingdoms or ADnD: Rise of the Silver Sun, i doubt you would be into gaming as much as you are. Games like Sonic the Hedgehog 2 and Mortal Kombat, which were easy to get into and understand, fostered your love for gaming. that is what is going to happen. It's like my freind who started listening to simple plan till i introduced her to flogging molly, The Pogues, the Ramones and the Sex Pistols. do you see where im going with this?

 

[The_Deleted]

* do you see where im going with this?

Absolutely. I agree that very few people jump in at the dep end as it were. But what if 'the market' doesn't keep up with the development of the new audience?

It'll be a boom & bust situation.

 

[jim_doki]

dude, that's jsut not going to happen. Independant game makers, which incidentally need your support more, will keep catering to you. Hollywood hasn't busted yet, it's just gotten crap.

if we stick with hollywood: i would love to see more films like Clerks or Eternal Sunshine. They're always gonna be around, no matter how hard hollywood pushes to get rid of them. Independant cinema, like the Evil Dead films, will always be able to do what hollywood, but better

 

[Cyclomega]

Anyway, why even care, the Game Overthinker video sums it up quite right.

There are some "hardcore" whiners of today who were "our" enemies back then, they came to play PES, FIFA, Madden and Ridge Racer, and they followed the Halo tide, and now they make fun of the Wii, which is quite surely the most barebones "gaming" console in the market, more than the N64, more than the GameCube, back to the glory of the NES, SNES and Genesis.

I just regret most of the current Nintendo catalog is shitty third-party, shoehorned-features-full, license-exploitation forgettable games and that really good games are a pain to find, but the XBox and the PSx are definitely consoles without personality nor soul compared to Nintendo consoles.
Don't get me wrong, I have a PSX, a PS2, both Xboxes and also a PSP, yet I find that my NDS has more appeal in the end, also because my poor PSP is mainly a receptacle for ports, re-hashes of GBA games (Yggdra Union, for instance, even if it's a good game), and shitty license exploitation... the few exclusive games are usually underwhelming (Bounty Hounds, Infected), or continuation of PSX/PS2 franchises (Crisis Core, God of War, Clank, Daxter).
So well...

 

[The_Deleted]

The problem with the Wii is it does have a lot of potential that has yet to be realised.
'Serious' gamers are put off by the 'Shitty third party' stuff and developers are still getting to grips with the PS3 while comfortable with the 360. The Wii seems to be losing out as an afterthought and anything decent that does get released will continue to be passed over and the Wii die off never acheiving all it could.

 

[WhitemageofDOOM]

I have no desire to in a small niche group of anything.

What was that mr. "keep gaming only for the gamers"? That is just a nice way of saying keep it niche. Keep it in the established fan base.

I do not want gaming to die nor do I have the punk rock mindset that feels anything of any worth should only cater to the few.

If you don't want casual games designed to create new gamers then you want gaming to die, it is that simple. Anything that caters to it's established fan base is inherently self destructive. Said fan base will eventually be lost to entropy and then there will be nothing. That's my point, if you didn't want gaming to die you would be encouraging casual games and opposing games designed to scare away new players.
But your opposing casual games and encouraging games designed to scare away new players.

But it's aggressive pricks like you that give gamers a bad name.

And? Being nice doesn't make one right, being mean doesn't make one wrong.

 

[Shivari]

Eww, I got video games in my Off-Topic.

 

[SimuLord]

I don't own a Wii because even with Nintendo's brilliant strategy of hooking in the non-gamers and lapsed gamers and pushing them up the market tiers one step at a time, taking their money all the while, the long and the short of it is that I've no interest in what they're offering.

I've been sitting here in Extreme Hardcore Mode PC Gamer Land since at least 2000. I'm at the top of the pyramid as far as game complexity (and its inverse relationship to sales) goes. I play Rome: Total War for a mental break. I dip my toes in Casual Pond once in awhile when I'm REALLY burned out on making my brain work too hard (my Sims 2 neighborhood is a sight to behold), but I always end up back in the realm of Victoria and Imperialism and Hearts of Iron and Sid Meier's Whatever, pushing limits in ways that will always scare off Nintendo's core audience no matter how allegedly sophisticated they become.

There's a limit to Nintendo's disruption strategy, and there will always be companies who are more than willing to embrace the profitable niche that is catering to the hardest of the hardcore, especially on the PC where digital distribution has removed the last barrier to getting games sold---no retail middleman needs to be introduced, and tomorrow I will begin to play the Colonization remake (can we just call it Col2?) with an eye toward reviewing it and possibly pitching said review to the Escapist, and quite possibly seeing if GameFAQs posts a FAQ Bounty for it.

 

[mark_n_b]

There is reason in the point, but the reasoning is flawed.

Mainstreaming gaming is more about making this a medium that is more accessible and understood by the entire world, as it stands, it is not accessible and so it is maligned.

On top of that how many gamers do you know that constitute the intelligent and cultured? It is hard to argue that gamers represent an independent culture that should be honored when gamers are sending threats to chop off Jack Thompson's balls to him. Gamer's argue for excessive violence and describe how cool it is and summarily ignore the other side of the debate.

And frankly, as people have already pointed out, it isn't an effort to make game's mainstream that is responsible for the crap out there.

I support taking games mainstream because, like film, it will paint the way to the serious adoption of this form by artistic, professional, innovative, even brilliant people.

Right now, for every example of brilliance and passion in games you have a dozen people who would much rather play in the developer lounge instead of get ahead of their work on a project.

For every truly culturally progressive figure there are thirty games-journalists who won't give an EA game a score less than 7 out of 10 for fear that they won't get invited to the next big game party.

For every eclectic gamer that truly explores and knows the gaming, you have hundreds of goofs that play nothing but FPS titles and swear up a storms when you can't rocket jump with pristine perfection?

I support trying to take gaming more mainstream. It is never going to be a meaningful part of the world otherwise. Therefore there will never be anything truly meaningful and great that comes from gaming.

 

[mbv-]

gaming an intelligent form of media....your kidding right..

 

[y8c616]

the casual side of the market is certainly expanding due to the likes of the wii; i think its really bad news for games,because the big developers may see that the casual bullshit is whats sellin well. therefore they spend more on developing these games, as opposed to 'real' games, so there may be less and less of the good stuff out on the market.
If you want my advice, if you wanna save real games for real gamers, then buy a PS3 with MGS4. This game is about as perfect as a game can get (bollocks to what yahtzee said)