Lauren Southern speaks to Feminists at "SlutWalk".

Recommended Videos

inmunitas

Senior Member
Feb 23, 2015
273
0
21
DizzyChuggernaut said:
In certain holy texts, gods advocate raping and pillaging.
"Raping and pillaging" in archaic text can refer to vandalism and theft, obviously depending on context, i.e. the rape[footnote]http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/rape[/footnote] and pillage[footnote]http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/pillage[/footnote] of a village could be something like setting fire to the houses and stealing the villages possessions.
 

Dizchu

...brutal
Sep 23, 2014
1,277
0
0
inmunitas said:
"Raping and pillaging" in archaic text can refer to vandalism and theft, obviously depending on context, i.e. the rape and pillage of a village would be setting fire to the houses and stealing the villages possessions.
Sure, I was referring to it in a general sense. But there's certain passages from holy books that promoted the slaughter of villagers - as long as they weren't young female virgins, who the soldiers were advised to "keep for themselves". That kind of mentality still exists in certain cultures.

RJ 17 said:
OT (I guess?): I always wondered why they called it SlutWalk...shouldn't they call it something like "NotSlutsWalk"? Spreading the point that even though they may choose to dress that way they're still Not Sluts?

I understand they're trying to be ironic...I just think it's a bit counter-productive to use irony in this situation.
The whole point is that they're being provocative, and they're using strength in numbers to do what they couldn't on their own. "SlutWalk" as a name is essentially there to neutralise the word "slut", they're calling themselves "sluts" so if others use that word against them it loses its potency.

There's good intentions, but if you get a bunch of people who believe in any ideology inevitably it'll attract the more belligerent people (such as some of those that were in the video).

MarsAtlas said:
You mean like with Bill Cosby? Three dozen people having come forward, most with the same type of story, keeping it consistent, and still tons of people defending him, and these allegations go back years. I heard of at least three different allegations prior to the recent influx of them.
I'm not sure how aware most people have been of the allegations prior to 2014 (forgive me, I've never had much interest in the guy). I don't doubt that lots of people are still defending him, especially since not much progress has been made in court (though personally I'm quite certain that he's sexually assaulted women). The recent allegations have undoubtedly hindered his career though, with networks scrapping or postponing shows. The heat's clearly on him but yeah, nothing to the degree of Jimmy Savile, for instance. I'm not aware of anyone that still defends Savile, though people tend to take sexual abuse of children much more seriously. It makes me curious whether or not after Cosby dies, the accusations of abuse will become more credible.
 

RJ 17

The Sound of Silence
Nov 27, 2011
8,687
0
0
DizzyChuggernaut said:
RJ 17 said:
OT (I guess?): I always wondered why they called it SlutWalk...shouldn't they call it something like "NotSlutsWalk"? Spreading the point that even though they may choose to dress that way they're still Not Sluts?

I understand they're trying to be ironic...I just think it's a bit counter-productive to use irony in this situation.
The whole point is that they're being provocative, and they're using strength in numbers to do what they couldn't on their own. "SlutWalk" as a name is essentially there to neutralise the word "slut", they're calling themselves "sluts" so if others use that word against them it loses its potency.

There's good intentions, but if you get a bunch of people who believe in any ideology inevitably it'll attract the more belligerent people (such as some of those that were in the video).
Doesn't...doesn't that therefor mean that it's officially okay to call all the girls in that protest a bunch of sluts? Somehow I get the impression that if I were to walk up to one of them, read their sign, and say "Ohhhh, so you really are just a bunch of sluts." they probably wouldn't take it too well.
 

Secondhand Revenant

Recycle, Reduce, Redead
Legacy
Oct 29, 2014
2,566
141
68
Baator
Country
The Nine Hells
Gender
Male
RJ 17 said:
DizzyChuggernaut said:
RJ 17 said:
OT (I guess?): I always wondered why they called it SlutWalk...shouldn't they call it something like "NotSlutsWalk"? Spreading the point that even though they may choose to dress that way they're still Not Sluts?

I understand they're trying to be ironic...I just think it's a bit counter-productive to use irony in this situation.
The whole point is that they're being provocative, and they're using strength in numbers to do what they couldn't on their own. "SlutWalk" as a name is essentially there to neutralise the word "slut", they're calling themselves "sluts" so if others use that word against them it loses its potency.

There's good intentions, but if you get a bunch of people who believe in any ideology inevitably it'll attract the more belligerent people (such as some of those that were in the video).
Doesn't...doesn't that therefor mean that it's officially okay to call all the girls in that protest a bunch of sluts? Somehow I get the impression that if I were to walk up to one of them, read their sign, and say "Ohhhh, so you really are just a bunch of sluts." they probably wouldn't take it too well.
It could be that they're not stupid and would be able to guess your intention is mocking.

I'm not sure how you're pretending to ignore that.
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

I never asked for this
Sep 8, 2011
6,651
0
0
That's modern feminism for you. It's all about how to be counter-productive and damage real feminist ideals. Those people are idiots. Every single one of them. Props to the reporter. She handled that really well. I couldn't stomach that much stupid if my life depended on it.
 

RJ 17

The Sound of Silence
Nov 27, 2011
8,687
0
0
Secondhand Revenant said:
RJ 17 said:
DizzyChuggernaut said:
RJ 17 said:
OT (I guess?): I always wondered why they called it SlutWalk...shouldn't they call it something like "NotSlutsWalk"? Spreading the point that even though they may choose to dress that way they're still Not Sluts?

I understand they're trying to be ironic...I just think it's a bit counter-productive to use irony in this situation.
The whole point is that they're being provocative, and they're using strength in numbers to do what they couldn't on their own. "SlutWalk" as a name is essentially there to neutralise the word "slut", they're calling themselves "sluts" so if others use that word against them it loses its potency.

There's good intentions, but if you get a bunch of people who believe in any ideology inevitably it'll attract the more belligerent people (such as some of those that were in the video).
Doesn't...doesn't that therefor mean that it's officially okay to call all the girls in that protest a bunch of sluts? Somehow I get the impression that if I were to walk up to one of them, read their sign, and say "Ohhhh, so you really are just a bunch of sluts." they probably wouldn't take it too well.
It could be that they're not stupid and would be able to guess your intention is mocking.

I'm not sure how you're pretending to ignore that.
That's my point exactly: the name of their protest invites mockery from snarky rat-bastards such as myself. Dispense with the ironic name of the protest and you remove the possibility of such mockery.
 

OldNewNewOld

New member
Mar 2, 2011
1,494
0
0
Spot1990 said:
carnex said:
Spot1990 said:
Pluvia said:
carnex said:
But here's the question, what do you do?
Well one thing that could be done is shift cultural attitudes about rape and make it seen as being more acceptable for people to report rapes as quickly as possible to the police.

It sounds obvious, but rape is one of the few crimes that has an unusually high amount of people "pushing back" against it being reported to police, focused on (the problem the interviewer has with it in this video), or having the definition of consent taught about. Even here on this forum you'll find people that don't think "No is no" should be taught, or suggesting that if you're raped you should perhaps just cut contact with your rapist rather than reporting them to the police.

There's nothing that can be done if rapes aren't reported, so what should be done is addressing the problems as to why they're not reported.
It doesn't help that "innocent until proven guilty" doesn't apply when you report a rape, it's closer to "lying whore until you can prove he did it". It's a phrase so often thrown around to protect the accused but often is just casting doubt on the innocence of the victim. Much more than I've ever seen with any other crime. Take the Bill Cosby situation. People are still accusing the 34(or whatever it's up to now) women of all being lying/fame hungry/money hungry/whores. That is not "innocent until proven guilty", that's evidence of society's iffy stance on reporting rape. That's turning the alleged victims into the guilty party.
How are you missing the obvious? Every society that developed pas some arbitrary point developed power and fame fetish. If it was some random dude from the street he wouldn't have same luxury of doubt in public eye.

Someone once said something like "never ascribe to malicious intent what can be satisfactory explained by incompetence or stupidity". Bill Cosby is famous and people love him. Heck, people adore and worship him. That's the reason why he gets that much leeway in public eye, not society's casual approach to rape.
There's also the Steubenville case. Victims being treated with vitriol happens quite frequently.
I know about the exact opposite happening. Just a simple accusation of rape is enough to fuck up people's life whether it's real or not. Even rumors are enough to completely ruin someones social and professional life. People lose jobs the moment a rumor starts spreading as damage control because "we can't support a rapist" whether the accusation/rumor is true or not.

The reason why people ask for such heavy proof of rape is because a single accusation (not conviction) is heavy enough to fuck someone's life and when it's proven false, it's a slap on the wrist for the accuser. Exactly because rape is such a heavy crime and because rapists are so looked down upon and hated is that people ask for proof before they convict someone for it. Did you miss the whole GG shitstorm that happened recently and all the people that lost their jobs because the antiGG side was finding info about the GGer and accusing them to their employer?
 

Secondhand Revenant

Recycle, Reduce, Redead
Legacy
Oct 29, 2014
2,566
141
68
Baator
Country
The Nine Hells
Gender
Male
RJ 17 said:
Secondhand Revenant said:
RJ 17 said:
DizzyChuggernaut said:
RJ 17 said:
OT (I guess?): I always wondered why they called it SlutWalk...shouldn't they call it something like "NotSlutsWalk"? Spreading the point that even though they may choose to dress that way they're still Not Sluts?

I understand they're trying to be ironic...I just think it's a bit counter-productive to use irony in this situation.
The whole point is that they're being provocative, and they're using strength in numbers to do what they couldn't on their own. "SlutWalk" as a name is essentially there to neutralise the word "slut", they're calling themselves "sluts" so if others use that word against them it loses its potency.

There's good intentions, but if you get a bunch of people who believe in any ideology inevitably it'll attract the more belligerent people (such as some of those that were in the video).
Doesn't...doesn't that therefor mean that it's officially okay to call all the girls in that protest a bunch of sluts? Somehow I get the impression that if I were to walk up to one of them, read their sign, and say "Ohhhh, so you really are just a bunch of sluts." they probably wouldn't take it too well.
It could be that they're not stupid and would be able to guess your intention is mocking.

I'm not sure how you're pretending to ignore that.
That's my point exactly: the name of their protest invites mockery from snarky rat-bastards such as myself. Dispense with the ironic name of the protest and you remove the possibility of such mockery.
And why do they need to worry that much about people that do stuff like that? I don't think they're all that concerned with the particular subset of people that want to mock them and aren't gonna really change their minds either way. Like I doubt the name change would do much except end up with you ignoring them instead. Not exactly something I'd project to be a win or worthwhile
 

Dizchu

...brutal
Sep 23, 2014
1,277
0
0
RJ 17 said:
That's my point exactly: the name of their protest invites mockery from snarky rat-bastards such as myself. Dispense with the ironic name of the protest and you remove the possibility of such mockery.
Err... that's not how it works. Women are accused of being sluts because the way they dress brings accusations of promiscuity. To them, they were already called "a bunch of sluts" but they're taking the opportunity to throw it back in their faces. They're essentially saying "if you're calling us sluts we're gonna dress like the sluttiest sluts you've ever seen".

I have problems with the whole SlutWalk routine but not the name, the name is fine. Great, even.
 

FogHornG36

New member
Jan 29, 2011
649
0
0
I enjoyed the end part were the black chick is unable to continue the debate so she has to go right to insulting her, im suprised she didn't just call her a racist.
 
Sep 24, 2008
2,461
0
0
Pluvia said:
carnex said:
-Snip for space-
I disagree that there's not a cultural problem with rape being reported. While I've not looked at statistics, it's common knowledge that a much lower amount of rapes are actually reported to police than the amount of people who have claimed to have been raped. That there is a clear sign of a problem. I also don't see how you can see someones point that rape shouldn't be reported as quickly as possible. Frankly in future you should not listen to anyone that suggests something so absurd, they're trying to play down rape as something that literally shouldn't be reported to the police. That there is another clear sign of a problem.

You say there's no satisfactory solution, but doing something is better than doing nothing.
Your problem is much more complex than you think.

Reporting means nothing. Because it's up to any police officer's bias on whether to pursue the case or not. A family member's best friend was raped last year by a guy who wore a condom. She told the cops. The cops pretty much looked at her and said they really have nothing to go on. I'm thinking skin cells and what have you, but the presence of a condom in the officers' eyes precluded any real damning DNA evidence. The guy is free and clear.

I myself had my own issue. As a man, Almost everyone believes sexual misconduct can not happen to a male if it's a girl who is doing the violating. If I report it, I would be laughed at. I know this as testing the waters, I mentioned it to a cop who patrolled my school at the time and we were pretty close. I'll never forget what he said when I presented the situation.

"Yeah, the cop behind the desk will think that guy is coming in to brag."

The Stats are horribly unreliable because they rely on two counts of human interaction. And that gives you two negatives to go on: Humans who consider not to report it, and humans who consider everything impossible/are too lazy/are horrible people who just want to sweep it under the rug.
 

Redryhno

New member
Jul 25, 2011
3,077
0
0
DizzyChuggernaut said:
RJ 17 said:
That's my point exactly: the name of their protest invites mockery from snarky rat-bastards such as myself. Dispense with the ironic name of the protest and you remove the possibility of such mockery.
Err... that's not how it works. Women are accused of being sluts because the way they dress brings accusations of promiscuity. To them, they were already called "a bunch of sluts" but they're taking the opportunity to throw it back in their faces. They're essentially saying "if you're calling us sluts we're gonna dress like the sluttiest sluts you've ever seen".

I have problems with the whole SlutWalk routine but not the name, the name is fine. Great, even.
I dunno, most of what they're wearing just look like standard Texas summer wear...not really all that slutty at all by my standards, most of 'em are just wearing swimsuits and croptops too...
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

I never asked for this
Sep 8, 2011
6,651
0
0
FogHornG36 said:
I enjoyed the end part were the black chick is unable to continue the debate so she has to go right to insulting her, im suprised she didn't just call her a racist.
She was bewildered by logic. It was her first encounter with it.
 

RJ 17

The Sound of Silence
Nov 27, 2011
8,687
0
0
Secondhand Revenant said:
DizzyChuggernaut said:
Hang on a sec...

Sorry, I just remembered that I honestly don't care enough about this discussion or even the protest that it's about to continue this conversation. I'll just excuse myself now, have a pleasant day.
 

Loonyyy

New member
Jul 10, 2009
1,292
0
0
MarsAtlas said:
I know its common, I just said that its a generally pretty shitty practice that produces nothing of value. Then again, I think the majority of protests produce nothing of value in the first place. That includes the SlutWalk (for the most part) by the way.
There was a thing here in Australia "Reclaim Australia" which were generally some pretty xenophobic, and specifcally, anti-muslim protests occurring here, and there were a signifcant amount of counter protests, largely to criticise the blatant racism on display, and show solidarity with the Muslim community. I think the merit of counter protests, like protests, largely rests on what they're about.
 

OldNewNewOld

New member
Mar 2, 2011
1,494
0
0
Adam Jensen said:
FogHornG36 said:
I enjoyed the end part were the black chick is unable to continue the debate so she has to go right to insulting her, im suprised she didn't just call her a racist.
She was bewildered by logic. It was her first encounter with it.
You don't understand. Logic is a social construct made by European thinkers in order to put down women.



Sorry for the image, but it fits too perfectly to miss the chance of posting it.
 

Nirallus

New member
Sep 18, 2014
58
0
0
BiH-Kira said:
Poe's Law in full effect: "Logic is a white thing". It's the most racist thing I've read in a while. Then again, it is an attitude that is actually held among certain progressives [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYm5GKA4vpY]. So the thinking goes, formal logic is a "white thing", and going against the white thing is good by axiom.
 

BloatedGuppy

New member
Feb 3, 2010
9,572
0
0
Nirallus said:
Poe's Law in full effect
Post isolated from context. User name blurred out. Seems the logical thing to do would be to at least treat it with skepticism.

Pluvia said:
It's not a situation of "unable to continue the debate" or "bewildered by logic", it was a situation where Southern tried changing the subject by going on a rant, and the black girl, rightly, pointed out that her rant was irrelevant to what they were discussing. It looks like it continued after that, after the girl tried getting it back on topic, but the video then cuts.
Yerp. That kind of "drop the mic, cut away" tactic permeates the video. I haven't watched any of her climate change denial stuff but I imagine it employs similar levels of "logic" and rigorous standards of debate.