Lauren Southern speaks to Feminists at "SlutWalk".

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Redryhno

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MarsAtlas said:
The Lunatic said:
MarsAtlas said:
You go to a protest and hold up a sign basically saying "the entire premise for this protest is bullshit", what would you expect?
Isn't that just victim blaming though?
If only somebody didn't know what "victim-blaming" meant.
Imagine a world in which people took jokes too seriously...
 

The Lunatic

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MarsAtlas said:
So, you're saying that destroying another's property (A sign.) isn't a violation of rights and is a measured response?

Uhm..

You know, this is kinda sounding like "They're only victims when I don't disagree with them".

I mean, we're told constantly about how angry emails to people are "Abuse", I'm kinda not really getting how calling somebody a " 12 year old" to their face isn't also abuse.
 

BloatedGuppy

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The Lunatic said:
I mean, we're told constantly about how angry emails to people are "Abuse", I'm kinda not really getting how calling somebody a " 12 year old" to their face isn't also abuse.
Criticism of behavior is not "abuse". Suggesting someone's behavior is childish is not abuse. It's a commentary on how they are comporting themselves. And honestly, from what I saw, she WAS being childish.

And you're a bright guy, you're well aware that abuse is pretty commonplace in the written medium, and you probably have a pretty good idea where the line is, too. We all skirt around it constantly so we can comport ourselves like civilized adults on this forum. I think you'd probably know an abusive email from an "angry" one.
 

The Lunatic

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BloatedGuppy said:
And you're a bright guy, you're well aware that abuse is pretty commonplace in the written medium, and you probably have a pretty good idea where the line is, too. We all skirt around it constantly so we can comport ourselves like civilized adults on this forum. I think you'd probably know an abusive email from an "angry" one.
Just as much as I distinguish the intend between "That's being a bit childish" and "You're being a 12 year old".

One is a more refined attempt at criticism, even if still a little insulting, the other is just an attempt at belittlement and offence.

MarsAtlas said:
I have no interest in defending her character. It's not really important to me.

However, she was the victim of verbal abuse and destruction of property for holding an opinion counter to their.

No amount of bad character will ever make the acceptable or "What she deserved".
 

BloatedGuppy

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The Lunatic said:
One is a more refined attempt at criticism, even if still a little insulting, the other is just an attempt at belittlement and offence.
Eh. You're reaching. I watched the clip. The tone, the body language, it all demonstrated exhaustion, not anger. Suggesting someone is acting 12 years old does not, IMO, constitute "abuse". Particularly when the accusation is somewhat merited.
 

The Lunatic

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BloatedGuppy said:
Eh. You're reaching. I watched the clip. The tone, the body language, it all demonstrated exhaustion, not anger. Suggesting someone is acting 12 years old does not, IMO, constitute "abuse". Particularly when the accusation is somewhat merited.
We live in a world in which complimenting a woman is seen as abuse by some people. I will admit it's difficult to really define it. Mars said it was abuse, you're saying it's not. It seems more a matter of opinion, honestly.


Pluvia said:
Don't worry you don't see that claim happen on video, or even her ripped up sign.

The worst thing that happens to her that we see on video is, after Southern goes on a shouty rant that isn't related to what the girl approached her about, the girl says "So you're sounding a little bit like a 12 year old because this is irrelevant" and then the video cuts before the girl can continue speaking.
Actually, if you refer to 5:35 in the video, Southern claims that her sign was ripped.

Now, it's just a claim, and if you think she's lying, that's fine. But, much in the same way Southern going on a shouty rant wasn't relevant to what the black girl was saying, it's also completely irrelevant to what we're talking about.

Person 1: "My Sign got ripped, I got verbally abused and my cameraman got pushed."

Person 2: "What'd you expect?"

Person 3: "IT DIDN'T HAPPEN ON VIDEO, SO IT'S NOT REAL."

The "victim blaming" that Person 2 does is not absolved by one of their claims not being caught on camera, nor your disagreement with one of their claims.

Now, Mars has admitted they didn't watch the video entirely, and thus claiming "What'd you expect?" was perhaps a bit premature when they didn't know what exactly went down, or at least is claimed to have.
 

BloatedGuppy

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The Lunatic said:
Now, it's just a claim, and if you think she's lying, that's fine. But, much in the same way Southern going on a shouty rant wasn't relevant to what the black girl was saying, it's also completely irrelevant to what we're talking about.
I think we have a bunch of cross conversations going between a number of people which is making this difficult. Might as well clarify where I stand.

It's not necessarily that I think she's lying, but I don't trust her honesty. Nothing about the way that clip is presented speaks of journalistic honesty or integrity. It's calculated outrage stoking, engineered to appeal to a very specific audience. So when she complains of a ripped sign, I have to ask "Show me it happening". When she complains of a cameraman getting pushed, I have to ask "show me the lead up and aftermath, don't just show me the three seconds and cut away". I see a woman telling her she's acting like a child while she is very clearly acting like a child...I don't consider that abusive, I consider that fair comment. I don't see her using "logic" to dismantle opponents, I see her berating unprepared individuals, then rapidly cutting away after an interruption by her, or a break in their speech.

I remember watching...it was Moore's healthcare "documentary"...was it called Farenheit 911 or something? I can't recall. Anyway I remember him zooming in on this sobbing woman's face and just thinking "Jesus hell this guy is reprehensible". I was predisposed to agree with his message, but his methods were disgusting. I felt the same about his ambush journalism on an ill and clearly unprepared Charlton Heston. I don't care for Mr. Heston's politics, but that doesn't mean I applaud scumbag journalistic tactics. Everything about Southern's video reeks of scumbag "journalism". Hence, I'm very hesitant to give her the benefit of the doubt when she spins a very convenient victim narrative. She had a camera right there. Where's the footage? I see a lot of footage of her acting like an asshole and flat-footing random people. I don't see a lot of footage of her being the victim of a rabid mob.

In a hypothetical sense, naturally it is not okay to beat people or damage their property because they hold unpopular views. Even if they've chosen to be a disruptive prat. Much more tangibly, I just don't trust a word that comes out of the woman's mouth. I appreciate that she's playing to her fringe audience, and that is her prerogative. They'll lap it up, I'm sure. I'm not going to credit it with being anything other than what it is, though, any more than I'd credit her other (even more dubious) videos.
 

Azure23

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SILENTSAM69 said:
I support the slutwalk because I like to look at them. I laugh at their views because rape culture is an absurd idea.

Considering the way the judicial and police systems demonize men accused of rape in a way the do not do to women who are accused of rape shows us that the only accept encephalitis of rape in our culture is the rape done by women.

They confuse the issue of rape by bringing the idea of a slut into it. It is two different things. Yes they are related, but they do not talk about them as related issues. They talk about them as if they are the same issue. Sure it is often said against female victims as a former of defense. That is more of a date rape specific issue. Violent rapes happen against all types of women. Even the elderly. It is a psychological problem and more related to ideas of power than just wanting sex from a hot girl who seems easy anyway.

There is no accept encephalitis of men accused of rape. The police harass them during the years that the trial often takes. They are scorned by those around them. They often lose their jobs. All before the trial is complete. Which is true with those accused of horrific crimes.

I also find it funny that the same people demand we must accept things from other people's cultures while trying to say our own culture has these strange horrific properties that must be changed. It makes me wonder if they think changes to culture should only be allowed to come from within that culture. Why would it be wrong for one culture to influence another to change?
Thank you for your expert opinion.

The idea that false reports are some massive problem is very typical of MRA extremists (not calling you one) and is not statically supported. Of rapes that occur, very few, pitifully few really, result in a police report. Of those reported, an infinitesimally small amount are found to be false. Certain groups of people like to push the narrative that around the world, women by the thousands are using rape accusations to get revenge on men. This does not happen, this does not happen for the exact same reasons that so few rapes are reported in the first place. Because being seen as a rape survivor is not an easy thing in western society. You would be better served by advocating for people attacked by sharks, at least those people are statistically significant. A rape accusation can ruin a life, yes, that's as it should be, because a rape can ruin a life, and overwhelmingly more often than not, it's a true accusation.
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

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Skatologist said:
We have no idea what that woman actually meant by that statement and that cut certainly doesn't help and this happens to be my interpretation.
Her train of thought (if you can even call that thinking) was pretty obvious. She didn't think through what she was going to say. She immediately used the term consent to draw a parallel with rape. Which simply doesn't work in that context.
 

chikusho

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Wow, yeah, that Lauthern Southern is really acting like a piece of shit in that video.
How can you even call yourself a journalist when your goal is to blatantly provoke people and disrupt a protest?

As that is the only thing this video shows I have to assume that's the subject of this thread.
 

Scars Unseen

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BloatedGuppy said:
Fappy said:
I will never understand how some reporters can operate like this. Like, do you just have to be a complete sociopath or just an idiot? Or both?

Then again, the same question could be asked about news pundints, car salesmen, assassins, clowns, etc.
Fappy I've had it up to here with your tireless clown bashing. I'm putting my foot down!
Thank god. I didn't want to say anything, but you looked a bit silly just standing on one foot this whole time. I was starting to get embarrassed.
 

FogHornG36

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Skatologist said:
FogHornG36 said:
Adam Jensen said:
1. That was a weird cut at the end. One that looked as though the black woman was going to continue to talk.

2.You do realize what that black woman could have meant, right? Withdrawing consent from sex while having it? Or even just withdrawing consent prior to the act while initially saying "yes"?
NOOOOOO You don't get to reinterpret what she said to make you feel better, the black chick was saying, isn't it ironic that you are not letting them take back consent after the fact?: when talking about being on camera, The irony is based on the feminist idea that woman should be able to take bake consent after sex.

It doesn't work your way because the filming is already done.
 

Secondhand Revenant

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FogHornG36 said:
Skatologist said:
FogHornG36 said:
Adam Jensen said:
1. That was a weird cut at the end. One that looked as though the black woman was going to continue to talk.

2.You do realize what that black woman could have meant, right? Withdrawing consent from sex while having it? Or even just withdrawing consent prior to the act while initially saying "yes"?
NOOOOOO You don't get to reinterpret what she said to make you feel better, the black chick was saying, isn't it ironic that you are not letting them take back consent after the fact?: when talking about being on camera, The irony is based on the feminist idea that woman should be able to take bake consent after sex.

It doesn't work your way because the filming is already done.
I think it's terrible you don't think women can take back consent during sex. It was still being filmed. Also it wasn't shown to anyone yet. So not a past event! Really, you shouldn't support not being able to stop giving consent.
 

FogHornG36

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Pluvia said:
FogHornG36 said:
I enjoyed the end part were the black chick is unable to continue the debate so she has to go right to insulting her, im suprised she didn't just call her a racist.
Adam Jensen said:
She was bewildered by logic. It was her first encounter with it.
To jump in here, the black girl does say "So you're sounding a little bit like a 12 year old because this is irrelevant" and the video then cuts. Statement about Southern sounding a little bit like a 12 year old aside, the black girl is right in this instance, Southern's rant was actually irrelevant to what they were discussing.
"irrelevant" So when the black check asks isn't it ironic that you are not letting them take back consent after the filming is already done, that it is Irrelevant that she brings up what the irony is based on? The black chick says she sounds like a 12 year old girl because she has lost, and what feminist do when they lose, is they attack, and insult, the change the subject, they call you a sexist, a bigot, a racist, anything to hijack the conversation and make it about you defending yourself now.

Secondly, Does it mater that southern is getting agitated while dealing with these people? no, what she says maters.
 

Secondhand Revenant

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FogHornG36 said:
Pluvia said:
FogHornG36 said:
I enjoyed the end part were the black chick is unable to continue the debate so she has to go right to insulting her, im suprised she didn't just call her a racist.
Adam Jensen said:
She was bewildered by logic. It was her first encounter with it.
To jump in here, the black girl does say "So you're sounding a little bit like a 12 year old because this is irrelevant" and the video then cuts. Statement about Southern sounding a little bit like a 12 year old aside, the black girl is right in this instance, Southern's rant was actually irrelevant to what they were discussing.
"irrelevant" So when the black check asks isn't it ironic that you are not letting them take back consent after the filming is already done, that it is Irrelevant that she brings up what the irony is based on? The black chick says she sounds like a 12 year old girl because she has lost, and what feminist do when they lose, is they attack, and insult, the change the subject, they call you a sexist, a bigot, a racist, anything to hijack the conversation and make it about you defending yourself now.

Secondly, Does it mater that southern is getting agitated while dealing with these people? no, what she says maters.
You do realize that just because it was filmed it could still not be used?
 

FogHornG36

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FogHornG36 said:
Pluvia said:
FogHornG36 said:
I enjoyed the end part were the black chick is unable to continue the debate so she has to go right to insulting her, im suprised she didn't just call her a racist.
Adam Jensen said:
She was bewildered by logic. It was her first encounter with it.
To jump in here, the black girl does say "So you're sounding a little bit like a 12 year old because this is irrelevant" and the video then cuts. Statement about Southern sounding a little bit like a 12 year old aside, the black girl is right in this instance, Southern's rant was actually irrelevant to what they were discussing.
"irrelevant" So when the black check asks isn't it ironic that you are not letting them take back consent after the filming is already done, that it is Irrelevant that she brings up what the irony is based on? The black chick says she sounds like a 12 year old girl because she has lost, and what feminist do when they lose, is they attack, and insult, the change the subject, they call you a sexist, a bigot, a racist, anything to hijack the conversation and make it about you defending yourself now.

Secondly, Does it mater that southern is getting agitated while dealing with these people? no, what she says maters.
Secondhand Revenant said:
FogHornG36 said:
Skatologist said:
FogHornG36 said:
Adam Jensen said:
1. That was a weird cut at the end. One that looked as though the black woman was going to continue to talk.

2.You do realize what that black woman could have meant, right? Withdrawing consent from sex while having it? Or even just withdrawing consent prior to the act while initially saying "yes"?
NOOOOOO You don't get to reinterpret what she said to make you feel better, the black chick was saying, isn't it ironic that you are not letting them take back consent after the fact?: when talking about being on camera, The irony is based on the feminist idea that woman should be able to take bake consent after sex.

It doesn't work your way because the filming is already done.
I think it's terrible you don't think women can take back consent during sex. It was still being filmed. Also it wasn't shown to anyone yet. So not a past event! Really, you shouldn't support not being able to stop giving consent.[/quot
Secondhand Revenant said:
FogHornG36 said:
Skatologist said:
FogHornG36 said:
Adam Jensen said:
1. That was a weird cut at the end. One that looked as though the black woman was going to continue to talk.

2.You do realize what that black woman could have meant, right? Withdrawing consent from sex while having it? Or even just withdrawing consent prior to the act while initially saying "yes"?
NOOOOOO You don't get to reinterpret what she said to make you feel better, the black chick was saying, isn't it ironic that you are not letting them take back consent after the fact?: when talking about being on camera, The irony is based on the feminist idea that woman should be able to take bake consent after sex.

It doesn't work your way because the filming is already done.
I think it's terrible you don't think women can take back consent during sex. It was still being filmed. Also it wasn't shown to anyone yet. So not a past event! Really, you shouldn't support not being able to stop giving consent.
I think its terrible you think they gays should be put into death camps! what? you didn't say that? well i didn't say woman can't take back consent "DURING" sex. Stop trying to sensationalize and attack who you are debating.

Once you have consented to being filmed, and then have been filmed, filming is done. Much like sex, you can't decided afterwords that you didn't like the way it turned out and take back consent.