Let's Play: Knights of the Old Republic COMPLETE

[woodaba]

Think you quoted the wrong person there.

Fixed.

I see.

What did you think about what I said, my friend?

I like bad guys I can relate to. And Walton is one of them. Though, mostly, it's because he reminds me of my grandfather, a man I deeply respect.

Personally, It felt like Walton was just going through the motions throughout the game. His slow, monotone manner of speaking, his flippant and uncaring attitude, it just felt like he didn't give a shit about JC.

I like two types of bad guys. Really, really, monstrously, kick the shaggy dog style evil villains, or a villain whos status as villain is debatable, and having just motivations.

I like the villains who are evil overlords or very strong lawful evil types. I like the ones that make you think they're good guys, but are really evil. Iago is a prime example of this.

Because it's easy to just grab a sword and attack everyone you see. But it's hard to get a man to kill his own wife. Tricking him to do so is a sign of evil planing.

Have you played Invisible War, by the way?

I have played Invisible War.

It is horrendous.

There are some good ideas in the story, and I liked the "no-win" scenario at the end, but the game itself was poorly designed, badly written, and generally pretty damn awful.

Music was nice though.

I too share a fondness for the villain who's plan is dominated not through physical strength, but wit and intelligence. My personal favorite is the antagonist from KoTOR II, but I'm not going to spoil that.

I've seen a LP of KOTOR II. I wouldn't say they fit as well in that role as I'd have liked, but they weren't bad, either.

Shame, really. I liked DX:1 quite a bit. Is it the level size?

Ok, imagine DX. Ok? Now imagine, everything that made that game great being thrown out the window. Then imagine them shoving in dull, linear, shooting levels that make up the majority of the game.

That's the problem. They took Deus Ex, and decided to aim for the Quake market. They failed. Miserably.

What I liked was the variety in skill style, and the fun of using the guns. Being a master rifleman, who carries a sword around for good measure, was a lot of fun. The stealth felt great, and a real sense of dread and fear.

They got rid of that?

Angry mob time!

What do you think they'll do next with the series?

With Deus Ex? Hard to say. They can't make a sequel to Invisible War, because everyone's either dead or the Borg, so there might be a game branching DX to Invisible War. Personally, I'd like to see a game set in an alternate universe version of the original Deus Ex, based on Sarif's ending to Human Revolution.

I see.

Personally, I'm shocked they haven'd done a HD re-release of Deus Ex for modern consoles. I'm sure people would buy it, don't you think? I would.

I'd like to see something done with Adam Jensen more. I rather liked him. Even more than JC Denton.

I would love to see a HD update of Deus Ex, especially with all the HD updating going on these days.

I wouldn't even mind them doing it in the DX:HR style, because I actually prefer HR to the original.

(Braces for Incoming Shitstorm)

Honestly though? JC Denton was just boring. Apart from his wolverine voice, I though Jensen was better in pretty much every way.

Eh, I still like DX:1 a little more. It's a +4 for the first one to a +3.5 for HR.

I think there was too much yellow in HR. I mean, WAY to much yellow. Then again, I don't like yellow.

I loved the cyberpunk style to the HR.

Deus Ex's style was "Normal Cities only slightly shittier and with robots walking around."

That's what pips it over the edge for me.

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

Think you quoted the wrong person there.

Fixed.

I see.

What did you think about what I said, my friend?

I like bad guys I can relate to. And Walton is one of them. Though, mostly, it's because he reminds me of my grandfather, a man I deeply respect.

Personally, It felt like Walton was just going through the motions throughout the game. His slow, monotone manner of speaking, his flippant and uncaring attitude, it just felt like he didn't give a shit about JC.

I like two types of bad guys. Really, really, monstrously, kick the shaggy dog style evil villains, or a villain whos status as villain is debatable, and having just motivations.

I like the villains who are evil overlords or very strong lawful evil types. I like the ones that make you think they're good guys, but are really evil. Iago is a prime example of this.

Because it's easy to just grab a sword and attack everyone you see. But it's hard to get a man to kill his own wife. Tricking him to do so is a sign of evil planing.

Have you played Invisible War, by the way?

I have played Invisible War.

It is horrendous.

There are some good ideas in the story, and I liked the "no-win" scenario at the end, but the game itself was poorly designed, badly written, and generally pretty damn awful.

Music was nice though.

I too share a fondness for the villain who's plan is dominated not through physical strength, but wit and intelligence. My personal favorite is the antagonist from KoTOR II, but I'm not going to spoil that.

I've seen a LP of KOTOR II. I wouldn't say they fit as well in that role as I'd have liked, but they weren't bad, either.

Shame, really. I liked DX:1 quite a bit. Is it the level size?

Ok, imagine DX. Ok? Now imagine, everything that made that game great being thrown out the window. Then imagine them shoving in dull, linear, shooting levels that make up the majority of the game.

That's the problem. They took Deus Ex, and decided to aim for the Quake market. They failed. Miserably.

What I liked was the variety in skill style, and the fun of using the guns. Being a master rifleman, who carries a sword around for good measure, was a lot of fun. The stealth felt great, and a real sense of dread and fear.

They got rid of that?

Angry mob time!

What do you think they'll do next with the series?

With Deus Ex? Hard to say. They can't make a sequel to Invisible War, because everyone's either dead or the Borg, so there might be a game branching DX to Invisible War. Personally, I'd like to see a game set in an alternate universe version of the original Deus Ex, based on Sarif's ending to Human Revolution.

I see.

Personally, I'm shocked they haven'd done a HD re-release of Deus Ex for modern consoles. I'm sure people would buy it, don't you think? I would.

I'd like to see something done with Adam Jensen more. I rather liked him. Even more than JC Denton.

I would love to see a HD update of Deus Ex, especially with all the HD updating going on these days.

I wouldn't even mind them doing it in the DX:HR style, because I actually prefer HR to the original.

(Braces for Incoming Shitstorm)

Honestly though? JC Denton was just boring. Apart from his wolverine voice, I though Jensen was better in pretty much every way.

Eh, I still like DX:1 a little more. It's a +4 for the first one to a +3.5 for HR.

I think there was too much yellow in HR. I mean, WAY to much yellow. Then again, I don't like yellow.

I loved the cyberpunk style to the HR.

Deus Ex's style was "Normal Cities only slightly shittier and with robots walking around."

That's what pips it over the edge for me.

I though the aiming system was pretty good in DX1.

You can't just pull a gun ironsighted and hit dead center. You have to aim your shot. Especially depending on what you're shooting.

I wasn't bothered by the graphics. Also, I wish some of the augmentations in DX1 were passive rather than requiring active use. And I hoarded energy cells and medkits because they're finite. OCD

I think HR did better in terms of style and augmentations.

Also, many skills are useless. Swimming?

 

[woodaba]

I though the aiming system was pretty good in DX1.

You can't just pull a gun ironsighted and hit dead center. You have to aim your shot. Especially depending on what you're shooting.

I wasn't bothered by the graphics. Also, I wish some of the augmentations in DX1 were passive rather than requiring active use. And I hoarded energy cells and medkits because they're finite. OCD

I think HR did better in terms of style and augmentations.

Also, many skills are useless. Swimming?

Graphics are perfectly fine, don't get why they get such bad press.

I have mixed opinions on the aiming.

On one hand, its more realistic and means that every shot has to be aimed carefully.

On the other, it severely handicaps you in combat, means you are effectively weaker than every enemy in the game, and renders all the full-auto weapons utterly useless.

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

I though the aiming system was pretty good in DX1.

You can't just pull a gun ironsighted and hit dead center. You have to aim your shot. Especially depending on what you're shooting.

I wasn't bothered by the graphics. Also, I wish some of the augmentations in DX1 were passive rather than requiring active use. And I hoarded energy cells and medkits because they're finite. OCD

I think HR did better in terms of style and augmentations.

Also, many skills are useless. Swimming?

Graphics are perfectly fine, don't get why they get such bad press.

I have mixed opinions on the aiming.

On one hand, its more realistic and means that every shot has to be aimed carefully.

On the other, it severely handicaps you in combat, means you are effectively weaker than every enemy in the game, and renders all the full-auto weapons utterly useless.

Well, the fully auto rifle is pretty bad. You only find like three bullets at a time for it. And it's really only good if you can max out rifles and shoot in the head. That usually takes em out.

I find some of the mutually exclusive augmentations interesting. I had cases where I either wanted both or wanted neither.

 

[woodaba]

UPDATE 12: AN EARTH SHATTERING KABOOM

Spoiler

Last time, we saw that Darth Malak, the Dark Lord of the Sith, is planning to destroy Taris. What a nice man.

Ominous.

Meanwhile, back on the planet surface...

This is Davik Kang, the crime lord we've heard so much about during our time here. He's voiced by someone who wants to be Marlon Brando so much it hurts.

Yay! It's Calo Nord again! Its one big criminal reunion. I think Bastila is the only person not morally bankrupt here, and she's pompous and arrogant.

Criminal cat fight!

"Sup. Name's Varen. I hunted down a bunch of your bounties, sold you the rakghoul serum...

"...but of course...you remember me from my brief stint in racing. Idiot. I want to kill this guy already. Although, Brejik had the....after-party... coming to him. He needed to learn that double-crossers end up dead."

"Your offer intrigues me Davik."

"Of course, it is one you cannot refuse."

(Entire audience groans)

Davik leaves us off in some snazzy quarters.

A massage is the codeword for sex in Star Wars. No, really, I'll show you later.

"Like I said. An offer you can't refuse."

(Audience groans again)

"I'd love to work with you, Davik. If you stop doing that."

"I'm afraid that is an offer I must refuse."

(Entire audience leaves)

"Good Job Davik. Ruined everything for everyone."

"Thats a bit of an understa-"

"EVERYTHING FOR EVERYONE."

"Calling it now. Boss battle."

"Thats so meta."

I think all of you Escapists agree, hmm?

Here we are. Gotta say, this Davik guy's got good taste in interior decorating. He's created the most visually interesting dungeon in the game so far. I can just imagine running through this area with the Civic Feasthall music from Planescape Torment.

...What's that? You want me to link you to the music? Tough shit. Go on GOG.com, buy that game, and experience it for yourself. Those of you who have played the game can hum along with me.

Or, look it up on youtube. Whatever.

We still have people to rob though! No matter where we are, there will always be people to rob.

What? Someone reacts rationally to our RPG behavior? Heavens above!

"Are you....threatening me? ME? VAREN VON BADDOOM? MASTER OF THE DARK RECCESSES OF THE NIGHT? DO THAT AGAIN, AND I WILL DESTROY YOU! I WILL WREAK HORRIBLE VENGEANCE UPON YOUR SOUL!"

"...Von BadDoom?"

"Shut up, Bastila."

"Ok, ok, crazy *****. Calm down."

(Varen glares at him. Takes out knife.)

"I'll be back."

(Varen drags the man offscreen)

"Hey, what are yoOHGODOHMYGODYOUPUNCHEDOUTALLMYBLOODNOMYINTESTINESNOOOOOOOOOOONONOTMYSPINENOTMYSPINENOMYSPINEEEEEEESTOPDRINKINGMYBLOODAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaa...."

(Varen walks back into view. Blood is all around her mouth.)

"...What the hell happened in there?"

"[gulps]Shut up, Bastila."

After that little tirade, we come across the broth- I mean, "massage parlor"...

"Anything?"

"Anything."

"In that case, gimme one of these so-called "Massages"...

Fade to black.

"Damn. I mean, I knew it wasn't going to be a massage, but when I wasn't expecting all the whips and chains. But you were terrible!"

"Well, prepare to get "disciplined" then."

"No."

Now...I know I spiced up the dialogue as per usual, but tell me that wasn't a prime example of getting crap past the radar.

Here's Davik's throne room. How big must your ego be to build a bloddy throne room in your honor?

Davik's guards don't take kindly to our presence.

Notice here that Canderous here uses a laser minigun. A LASER MINIGUN. Miniguns are awesome, and lasers always add more awesome.

Once we take care of the guards, we find another terminal. Love these things.

A lot of dudes.

More dudes.

Hey, look! That's us! Wave for the camera, everyone!

More dudes.

In summary, we can say that there are a lot of dudes in Davik's place. However, let's thin that number out a bit.

"Oh No! Its Dioxidin!"

Is it just me, or do synchronised chocking animations look a lot like dancing?

A guest room? That sound slike a jolly old place! I'll just click on it, and...

Oh.

OH.

"Varen, what are you doing?"

"I AM NOT MASTURBATING WHY WOULD YOU SAY SUCH A THING."

"Ok, I'm just going to go over here, far, far away from you."

More robots to kill.

It's pretty much just a gauntlet from here to the hangar.

BOOM

Here we are. Just gotta pick the lock and...

Damnation. Looks like we're going to have to explore some more to find the access codes.

More mooks guarding the drug lab, er, sorry "Spice" lab. Pretty sure they're not talking about the spice from dune.

And, at last, we come to Varen's personal fant-

(SLAP)

...Ow! Sorry, er, "Guest Room". Boy, I'm doing a lot of bullshit decoding today, aren't I?

After killing the torture droids, we come across this poor soul. Varen wanted to watch him suffer a bit more, but Bastila released him.

"Goddamit, Bastila. Well, since you're free, you better gimme some kind of reward or I'll kill you myself!"

"That's pretty cool I guess, but I was sorta looking for the location of the Holy Grail, the Ark of the Covenant, the Fountain of Youth, y'know, the really juicy stuff. I guess you'll have to die now."

"Nope. Prepare to die."

"Quiet, you."

Ironically enough, it was Bastila who ended up killing him. With Force Lightning. Hypocrite much?

There we go, that's what we're looking for. Next stop, the Ebon Hawk. And not a moment too soon...

"Bastila, why is the roof caving in?"

"I was just about to ask you where all those lasers were coming from, Canderous."

"I think we better stop pontificating and get the hell out of dodge."

It looks like Davik and Calo have had the same idea, however...

Here we have the final battle on Taris, as the planet is under bombardment and tearing itself. The perfect environment for an ultimate battle of ultimate destiny. One problem: the fight's piss easy. All you need to do is throw some grenades Calo's way and he finishes the fight for you. Here, watch:

"Bombs away, ************!"

Bastila's all like: "Screw this, I'm outta here."

And Calo is crushed under the weight of his own hubris/rubble. Kind of an-anticlimactic end, don't ya think? Bit of a cop-out.

Davik dies too...for some reason. Ah well, time to loot his corpse!

"Varen, not while the Sith are raining hell down upon us!"

"Fine, I'll do it later!"

(Davik's Corpse added to inventory)

"That's not what I had in mind...but we don't have time to argue. Let's go!"

I love the way it gives you an option. Like, "Yes, I would love to escape this dying planet" or "No, I'm all right, to be honest."

Meanwhile, many miles above the surface...

"The city is in ruins."

...

OH GOD THE CAMERAMAN NOOOOOOOOOOOOO

"Come on, Carth, gogogogogogogogogogogogogogogogogogogogo"

"HO-LEE SHIT."

And so, we leave Taris behind. Y'know, for all I mocked it, for all my complaints, this is still a powerful moment, especially if you go lightside. All those people, everyone you helped, the outcasts, the old man getting mugged, the hidden beks, the bounties, everyone, gone. In one horrible, devilish, moment. Gone. Like it was never there.

But, we can't philosophise too much. We've got trouble, the Not-Tie Fighters from the opening are coming to kick our asses.

"Don't mind me, just standing back here, minding my own business. Dum dee dum."

"You're lucky we're in a life or death situation, or I'd tear your throat out for giving me orders."

"JUST DO IT, VAREN!"

"FINE, GEEZ!"

Here we're introduced to the throwaway turret minigame. It sucks. It just, sucks. It feels out of place, and is only there to pad the game out. A waste of space.

"YEEHAA! COME ON, LET'S HIT HYPERSPACE!"

"JUMP!"

See you next time, Escapists. Let's hope the next update is more upbeat.

Obligatory Question Time! What moment, in a game, made you properly hate the bad guy. Just, pure hatred. For me, the moment that stands out to me most is in, of all things, Kingdom Hearts 2.

Spoiler

One of the enemy mooks inadverdantly decks Goofy, yes, that Goofy, over the head with a rock, and the game does an incredibly good job of making you think he's dead. Sure, he doesn't stay dead, but when Mickey says "They'll pay for this" you're right there with him.

 

[The_Lost_King]

I have 2 moments from the same game

Spoiler: Spoilers from Saints Row 2

The first one was when the Ronin almost killed Johnny and I thought he was dead
The second one was when the Brotherhood Kill Carlos

 

[woodaba]

I have 2 moments from the same game

Spoiler: Spoilers from Saints Row 2

The first one was when the Ronin almost killed Johnny and I thought he was dead
The second one was when the Brotherhood Kill Carlos

I love Saints Row 2, but the dramatic elements were slightly undercut when I was playing a transgender old priest in a thong and bowler hat.

 

[The_Lost_King]

I have 2 moments from the same game

Spoiler: Spoilers from Saints Row 2

The first one was when the Ronin almost killed Johnny and I thought he was dead
The second one was when the Brotherhood Kill Carlos

I love Saints Row 2, but the dramatic elements were slightly undercut when I was playing a transgender old priest in a thong and bowler hat.

I don't even want to picture that.

 

[Shadows Risen]

Moments that led me to hate the bad guy?

Spoiler: DA:O spoilers

During the battle at Ostagar when Loghain just turns around and walks off with half the army leaving Cailan to die after you just fought through an army of Darkspawn yourself. And then blames the Grey Wardens for Cailan's death. First time I played through that I was PISSED at Loghain.

 

[woodaba]

Moments that led me to hate the bad guy?

Spoiler: DA:O spoilers

During the battle at Ostagar when Loghain just turns around and walks off with half the army leaving Cailan to die after you just fought through an army of Darkspawn yourself. And then blames the Grey Wardens for Cailan's death. First time I played through that I was PISSED at Loghain.

When the game offered me redemption for that bastard, I laughed at the tv. He's going to ROT.

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

...

He looks a LOT like Rick Santorum in this picture. At least to me.

Obligatory Question Time! What moment, in a game, made you properly hate the bad guy. Just, pure hatred. For me, the moment that stands out to me most is in, of all things, Kingdom Hearts 2.

In Deus Ex

Spoiler

When I found my brother dead

In Dragon Age 2

Spoiler

When that... Arishock dude (or however you spell it) killed the viscount

Moments that led me to hate the bad guy?

Spoiler: DA:O spoilers

During the battle at Ostagar when Loghain just turns around and walks off with half the army leaving Cailan to die after you just fought through an army of Darkspawn yourself. And then blames the Grey Wardens for Cailan's death. First time I played through that I was PISSED at Loghain.

When the game offered me redemption for that bastard, I laughed at the tv. He's going to ROT.

Actually..

Spoiler

On my mage, I let him live, and then killed the Archdemon myself, leaving him alive with guilt. I figured that would be more of a punishment. At least my character did.

 

[DustyDrB]

Hating the bad guy? That's easy: Edgar Ross, Red Dead Redemption. I felt real burning hatred for that character. I don't even think I need to point out the moment.

About Davik Kang: He reminds me more of Mel Brooks trying to be Marlon Brando. And his armor is uuuuuugly. I remember making a thread about it once...there it is [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.266304-Ugliest-Outfits-in-Games].

 

[AD-Stu]

Out of interest (I can't remember and didn't use him much in this game, unfortunately), is Canderous specced much the same way as *ahem* Mandalore in KOTOR II, in that he turns up with range weapons (like the aforementioned awesome-looking laser minigun) but he's actually better suited to melee?

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

Hating the bad guy? That's easy: Edgar Ross, Red Dead Redemption. I felt real burning hatred for that character. I don't even think I need to point out the moment.

About Davik Kang: He reminds me more of Mel Brooks trying to be Marlon Brando. And his armor is uuuuuugly. I remember making a thread about it once...there it is [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.266304-Ugliest-Outfits-in-Games].

I remember that moment. I was almost in tears at that point.

By the way, is there any other way to legally get KOTOR not through Steam? Because for some reason, Steam doesn't work well with my computer.

 

[AD-Stu]

By the way, is there any other way to legally get KOTOR not through Steam? Because for some reason, Steam doesn't work well with my computer.

Pretty sure the physical copy (alongside KOTOR II) is a regular feature in the $10 bargain bin at my local games store, or you should be able to order a physical copy online.

 

[DustyDrB]

Out of interest (I can't remember and didn't use him much in this game, unfortunately), is Canderous specced much the same way as *ahem* Mandalore in KOTOR II, in that he turns up with range weapons (like the aforementioned awesome-looking laser minigun) but he's actually better suited to melee?

Yeah, it's the same situation. It's actually worse in KotOR since there is no "Finesse" feat, which makes it so the higher of Strength or Dexterity is the determining stat for weapon effectiveness. Every weapon type but Blaster Rifles has that feat in KotOR II, but you can equip Mandalore with dual Mandalorian Rippers and take Finesse: Blaster Pistols.

But Canderous is definitely better suited to melee despite him coming equipped with a heavy weapon. It's a shame, because that gun is very good. What's frustrating is Mission. She's better specced for ranged combat (despite her starting weapon as well), but she lacks some of the higher tiers of feats for blasters. Certain visors can alleviate this with their bonuses, though.

 

[woodaba]

He looks a LOT like Rick Santorum in this picture. At least to me.

Now that you mention it, I see it too.

In Deus Ex

Spoiler

When I found my brother dead

Spoiler

He's still alive, in Tongs base, if I remember correctly

Moments that led me to hate the bad guy?

Spoiler: DA:O spoilers

During the battle at Ostagar when Loghain just turns around and walks off with half the army leaving Cailan to die after you just fought through an army of Darkspawn yourself. And then blames the Grey Wardens for Cailan's death. First time I played through that I was PISSED at Loghain.

When the game offered me redemption for that bastard, I laughed at the tv. He's going to ROT.

Actually..

Spoiler

On my mage, I let him live, and then killed the Archdemon myself, leaving him alive with guilt. I figured that would be more of a punishment. At least my character did.

He was the kind of person that justifies his actions to himself, no matter what. He simply would not feel guilt.

Out of interest (I can't remember and didn't use him much in this game, unfortunately), is Canderous specced much the same way as *ahem* Mandalore in KOTOR II, in that he turns up with range weapons (like the aforementioned awesome-looking laser minigun) but he's actually better suited to melee?

Pretty sure. I don't tend to get too in-depth into specs too much, so I usually just saddle Canderous with his minigun and give him the best feats I can.

By the way, is there any other way to legally get KOTOR not through Steam? Because for some reason, Steam doesn't work well with my computer.

Amazon, my friend. There are plenty of copies floating all around.

 

[Plinglebob]

Obligatory Question Time! What moment, in a game, made you properly hate the bad guy. Just, pure hatred.

Aside from boss battles (but I'm guessing you mean a different type of hate) the closest I ever came was Jade Empire

Spoiler

When your Master betrays and kills you. I showed how very British, White & Middle Class I am at that point by thinking "Now thats just not right"

 

[woodaba]

Obligatory Question Time! What moment, in a game, made you properly hate the bad guy. Just, pure hatred.

Aside from boss battles (but I'm guessing you mean a different type of hate) the closest I ever came was Jade Empire

Spoiler

When your Master betrays and kills you. I showed how very British, White & Middle Class I am at that point by thinking "Now thats just not right"

I was more shocked than anything else, at that point.

Spoiler

It's like if Obi-Wan Kenobi or something betrayed you!

 

[DustyDrB]

...

He looks a LOT like Rick Santorum in this picture. At least to me.

Now I guess I know what Rick Santorum looks like, then (don't pay attention to politics anymore. Have just heard the name mentioned).

That face model is used sooooosososo many times in KotOR II. It threw me off the first time, when I didn't know it was actually a different guy just with the same face model. Dude was talking about some small issue he wanted me to help him with, and I was wondering why we couldn't discuss the fact that he was somehow resurrected after I personally beat him to death when he tried to assassinate me.