Major paradox

[Xanadu84]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory

I think you need to reread Chaos Theory. In fact, in my understanding, Chaos Theory assumes that EVERYTHING is either 100% or 0%, because its determined by the initial conditions. It just grows in complexity.

What your presenting is closer to anti-absolutism, a scientific attitude that is an excellent approach to research and learning. However, it is not the way the world works, its the best way to figure out how the world works.

 

[teutonicman]

As fun as that looks like to ponder... 42 thats my answer.

 

[Tharwen]

The only thing that is certain is change. The universe is in a constant state of flux so nothing will ever stay the same

But is it not possible that all of the energy in the universe will eventually even out among all of the particles and thus there will be no more change!

As fun as that looks like to ponder... 42 thats my answer.

Actually it's 54. If you read the fourth book you should understand.

 

[Jamous]

Technically, from a certain point of view, the only way Chaos can truly be Chaotic is to be ordered, as it is the chaotic form of chaos. Chaos is where nothing is ordered, and if you apply that theory to Chaos then it has to be ordered, because ordered chaos is chaos, whereas the opposite is order. I can't remember the original way it was put forward, but it seriously did work. Assuming that logic isn't also affected by the chaos theory, thus making logical decisions spontaneously change conclusions constantly.

 

[EMFCRACKSHOT]

The only thing that is certain is change. The universe is in a constant state of flux so nothing will ever stay the same

But is it not possible that all of the energy in the universe will eventually even out among all of the particles and thus there will be no more change!

I think its called the principle of conservation of energy or something (not a scientist) and it basically means thatenergy does not dissapear it just changes, therefore i think it is logical to assume that energy could not balance out

 

[Tales of Golden Sun]

I think your misinterpreting chaos theory. The things that chaos theory applies to, such as weather, bouncing balls, dart throwing, and such, can all be predicted. Just only from a certain point. Chaos theory doesn't say that weather can't be predicted, it just says it can be predicted reasonably beyond two weeks. A bouncing ball can't be reasonable predicted beyond the third bounce. That's because chaotic systems, like the weather, rely heavily on intial conditions which change so much over the course of time, depending on the system. The Uncertainty principle is the one that says you can never be 100% certain about anything, but it really only applies to quantum sciences, not the classical sciences, so it can all be safely disregarded. If it did apply to classical physics, then phenomena like Archimedes principle, Bernoulli's principle, Ohm's law, and even gravity could never be counted on to actually work. So yeah, your confusing Chaos with uncertainty, which doesn't apply to things bigger then an atom.

Sorry, had to explain it all. I'm a nerd for these things.

No, you're not.
You're just intelligent.
And that's something to be proud of.
Self-esteem BOOST!

Well, anyway, isn't the OP mistaking the chaos theory with Nietsche?
Nietsche once said something like "everything that's true isn't true", which means that this fact also wouldn't be true. And that's a major paradox if you ask me.

 

[Lord George]

Choas can be orderly, I live my life in organised chaos, where everything comes together perfectly out of a random mess.

 

[la-le-lu-li-lo]

Does that mean that CHAOS is actually the only CERTAIN, ORDERLY thing there is in the cosmos?

Death.
That's another 100% chance thingy.

death & chaos, the only two certain things?
makes sense. oh the irony.

 

[quiet_samurai]

It's more ironic then actually being paradoxal.

To be a paradox, something has to be unanswerable due to the fact that the answer comflicts the very thing itself. As in, if God can do anything, then can he make a boulder that is too heavy for him to lift?

Also, it's Chaos THEORY, meaning it's not a completely proven fact.

 

[mrpenguinismyhomeboy]

thats the thing, Chaos theory itself knows that by its own rules it can be broken, and thats the beauty of it, when Chaos theory is broken by its own laws then it was chaos theory that broke itself.

Its the theory that everything is uncertain, including, its own formula that it isn't strictly governed by.

Again sorry for being an ass about this, but I study these things in my free time. You are thinking of the uncertainty principle. Chaotic things can be predicted with accuracy, but only up to a certain time. The uncertainty principle states that nothing can be certain, but even the uncertainty principle isn't uncertain about it self. That's a philosophical argument, not a scientific argument, because there is no evidence to support that the principle is uncertain of itself. It would be ridiculous, because the implications of that would suggest that the uncertainty principle flops in and out of existence at times which we cannot be certain about either, and so because we couldn't even be certain about when you could be certain and when you couldn't, it would just be disregarded.

Its Quantum mechanics at its basic level.

I mean if you want to think about it that way I guess it could be interpreted as "classical" quantum mechanics, but its really not. There's so much more to quantum theory then just uncertainty. I could make a list, but you all might start throwing things at me.

 

[letsnoobtehpwns]

Hmmm... Makes you think...

 

[skorpion352]

Chaos theory determains that nothing is ever certain. It alwayes applies, to all things, no matter what. There will be no 100%s, and there will be no 0%s.

wrong, because i am 100% positive that i typed this post myself. there is exactly a 0% chance that someone else did this.

it is also 100% garunteed that i will die within the next 150 years and there is a 100% chance that i am looking at my monitor as i read this thread

/pedantic

EDIT: also, i only read the op, too lazy to read the rest of the thread

 

[Aur0ra145]

So you're saying that it's not 100% correct that I will die someday?

Therefore I am Christ, refer to me as such from now on.

 

[mrpenguinismyhomeboy]

The only thing that is certain is change. The universe is in a constant state of flux so nothing will ever stay the same

But is it not possible that all of the energy in the universe will eventually even out among all of the particles and thus there will be no more change!

You see actually, that's wrong, because the law of entropy says that disorder will always increase with time. Order can only be created if there is enough disorder created to balance it out and effectively undo the order. For example, when you clean your room, the energy you used to clean up your room is released in the form of heat, and it is in a disordered state, and it balances out the order in your room. And also given that energy can neither be created or destroyed, the energy will never be spread out evenly among all the particles in the universe, because (1), the universe is expanding and that affects the gravitational energy between bodies as the very fabric of space pulls them away form each other, and (2), energy is always being used, transferred, and converted into other bodies and forms so it can never stop, and thus will never be still. So because of that, there will always be more disorder then order in the universe, meaning there will always be chaos.

Also, it's Chaos THEORY, meaning it's not a completely proven fact.

You're misusing the word theory. Chaos theory is the theory of chaos. It is not however chaos itself. It is the study of chaos on chaos's own terms, within its own field. In other words, Chaos theory is the study of chaos in the context of itself. Chaos is a fact. So is gravity. The theory of gravity is the laws of gravity within the context of gravity. So when people say something is theoretical, that means that it should work on its own terms within its own field, but may not work in practice, because in the real world all systems affect each other, so there will be other factors. Average people throw around the word theory like its means nothing, but in the scientific community, something must go through rigorous amounts of experimentation before being called a theory. Chaos theory is a proven fact, that's why it's a theory.

 

[mrpenguinismyhomeboy]

Chaos theory determains that nothing is ever certain. It alwayes applies, to all things, no matter what. There will be no 100%s, and there will be no 0%s.

Again, that's the uncertainty principle, not chaos theory. And it only applies to quantum mechanics, and it can all be safely disregarded in classical theory, which is the theory regarding the phenomena we encounter on a daily basis. The uncertainty principles applies only to things the size (or close to that) of an atom.

 

[quiet_samurai]

The only thing that is certain is change. The universe is in a constant state of flux so nothing will ever stay the same

But is it not possible that all of the energy in the universe will eventually even out among all of the particles and thus there will be no more change!

You see actually, that's wrong, because the law of entropy says that disorder will always increase with time. Order can only be created if there is enough disorder created to balance it out and effectively undo the order. For example, when you clean your room, the energy you used to clean up your room is released in the form of heat, and it is in a disordered state, and it balances out the order in your room. And also given that energy can neither be created or destroyed, the energy will never be spread out evenly among all the particles in the universe, because (1), the universe is expanding and that affects the gravitational energy between bodies as the very fabric of space pulls them away form each other, and (2), energy is always being used, transferred, and converted into other bodies and forms so it can never stop, and thus will never be still. So because of that, there will always be more disorder then order in the universe, meaning there will always be chaos.

Also, it's Chaos THEORY, meaning it's not a completely proven fact.

You're misusing the word theory. Chaos theory is the theory of chaos. It is not however chaos itself. It is the study of chaos on chaos's own terms, within its own field. In other words, Chaos theory is the study of chaos in the context of itself. Chaos is a fact. So is gravity. The theory of gravity is the laws of gravity within the context of gravity. So when people say something is theoretical, that means that it should work on its own terms within its own field, but may not work in practice, because in the real world all systems affect each other, so there will be other factors. Average people throw around the word theory like its means nothing, but in the scientific community, something must go through rigorous amounts of experimentation before being called a theory. Chaos theory is a proven fact, that's why it's a theory.

Right.....did you also know the word theory is a body of principles governing the study of an art or discipline?? Maybe I should have said Chaos Hypothesis instead.

 

[Pimppeter2]

Also, seriously... What's up with Jesus.

Not much apparently, I guess him and god are asleep. Along with the UN's common sense

 

[DigitalSushi]

thats the thing, Chaos theory itself knows that by its own rules it can be broken, and thats the beauty of it, when Chaos theory is broken by its own laws then it was chaos theory that broke itself.

Its the theory that everything is uncertain, including, its own formula that it isn't strictly governed by.

Again sorry for being an ass about this, but I study these things in my free time. You are thinking of the uncertainty principle. Chaotic things can be predicted with accuracy, but only up to a certain time. The uncertainty principle states that nothing can be certain, but even the uncertainty principle isn't uncertain about it self. That's a philosophical argument, not a scientific argument, because there is no evidence to support that the principle is uncertain of itself. It would be ridiculous, because the implications of that would suggest that the uncertainty principle flops in and out of existence at times which we cannot be certain about either, and so because we couldn't even be certain about when you could be certain and when you couldn't, it would just be disregarded.

Its Quantum mechanics at its basic level.

I mean if you want to think about it that way I guess it could be interpreted as "classical" quantum mechanics, but its really not. There's so much more to quantum theory then just uncertainty. I could make a list, but you all might start throwing things at me.

ohhhh don't tempt me!, make that list or i'll throw a box at you, that may or may not contain a dead cat.

edit: as an aside, i'm not certain whether it will hit you.

 

[Tech Team FTW!]

Does that mean that CHAOS is actually the only CERTAIN, ORDERLY thing there is in the cosmos

I'd say that chaos theory defeats itself.
By its own definition, it cannot work 100% of the time.

Unless it makes an exception for itself.