Man kills newborn daughter because he couldn't afford to keep her

[HotKakes]

I guess I'm in the minority by saying that I don't find the guy to be completely evil or demented.

 

[jakeblues1295]

Me too. Some people just don't deserve to live; like this asshole

 

[Chris646]

Aaaand there goes a bit more of my faith in humanity.
Great job, now kindly do the world a favor and go kill yourself.
He'd probably win a Darwin Award for it too.

 

[CatsAttackAgain]

The absolute worst part of this for me is that he had to hit her twice! That means she was still alive after the first blow. This sick fuck is one of the reasons I belive in the death penalty. And if he gets off by pleaing insane, I will find him and personaly administer it, with a concrete brick!
Jesus man, ever heard of an orphanage?!

 

[duchaked]

I...what...just...this is sick! D: ...really got nothing else to say :/

 

[Kraj]

SNIP

First of all, great post. This is an excellent example of how science can and SHOULD be used to solve ethics problems. We shouldn't base these things just on religion or our natural instinct, as these are often in accurate or restrictive.

Oh, and another reason to ban late-stage abortions is that they also present a serious health risk to mother.

However, one little detail:

Abortion before the brain is formed? No problem.
Abortion AFTER the brain has formed? Big problem.

I, as an atheist, don't believe in the soul. At all. I'm also not one of those people who think that "human life beings at conception". Life exists before and after conception (sperm cells are technically "alive" in a biological sense),but human life only, ONLY begins with the formation of the brain.

Not quite. Yes, after the nervous system and the brain have started forming there is nervous impulses but these do not represent human sentience. I would say that the limit for abortion should just past this point, right before meaningful brain signals.

Again, this is just a detail in an anotherwise great post.

hmm... my 2 cents: i thought that "presupposing you believe in a soul" a sentient being is one capable of higher level rationalization and reason, and most commonly a form of empathy and moral calender.
...
there are a lot of ADULTS who don't have one or multiples of these traits, much less an undeveloped or even very young infant brain.

OT:
the guy is screwed up, the girl is embarrassing, both are are paragons for the worst humanity has to offer... and the most shameful.

 

[i7omahawki]

"Well at least she didn't have an abortion" i hear god say

Actually this is far worse than abortion...

indeed, my point is that when all these religious nut-jobs go on about how wrong abortion is they fail to see what position they are pushing the people, who are even in the first case in such a position as to have to consider abortion, in to.

And hell Atlee he seams to have done it in an rather instantaneous way, he could have drowned the kid so hey as far as bad decisions go this was a good one.

He dropped the cinderblock on her head, twice. That's not nearly instantaneous enough.

Also, I'm not sure, but apparently drowning isn't too bad, just kinda lose consciousness quite quickly.

But anyway, yeah, abortion would've been the way to go. I don't understand people's objection to it. But then I don't quite understand how anyone who believes in God, Heaven and Hell bear the thought of having a child at all.

 

[Snowy Rainbow]

And yet nobody frowns upon abortion, even though this is exactly the same thing.

Flushing cells from a woman that are not recognized as anything near human by any medical community in the world is the same as dropping a cinderblock on an infant baby to you?

I see...

 

[Denamic]

Why in the hell did that woman get pregnant in the first place!?

The "pull out" method, I'd wager.
Or just plain wishful thinking.

Not like an adoption agency would have been an option.
That'd mean he'd have to sign papers and shit.
Way too much work.

 

[Zeema]

I Hope that guy gets Strapped to the front of his car and someone drives the car into a wall made of Spikes

OR

Cut his Arm's Legs, Tongue and Dick off

that will teach him
-------------

He is Disgusting as a human being

 

[emeraldrafael]

What the FUCK is wrong with my state that we're doing stupid shit like this. Christ, no fucking wonder they starting playing those radio ads about giving up the child after birth on the radio stations I listen to.

And Really! TWICE! He had to drop it TWICE! So full of rage. I hate this man. I hate him more then most any other man I've ever known. Give him the chair. I dont care if its not allowed in PA anymore. Fire up old sparky. or better yet, I'll make a press, we'll see how much he enjoys a cinderblock being dropped on him.

...

*breathes and sighs* This is why I believe you need a test before you have kids.

...

before you even have to worry about it being born onto the floor (which was another nice move, you disgusting, crawling, human slime.).

...

To be fair, there are a lot of kids born inside cars. From the sounds of it, she pretty much went into labor in the supermarket, and it just came out int he car. Just go ahead and try to tell a woman to wait and keep it in her until you can get to a hospital. Thats not a fight you're going to win.

 

[Korolev]

SNIP

First of all, great post. This is an excellent example of how science can and SHOULD be used to solve ethics problems. We shouldn't base these things just on religion or our natural instinct, as these are often in accurate or restrictive.

Oh, and another reason to ban late-stage abortions is that they also present a serious health risk to mother.

However, one little detail:

Abortion before the brain is formed? No problem.
Abortion AFTER the brain has formed? Big problem.

I, as an atheist, don't believe in the soul. At all. I'm also not one of those people who think that "human life beings at conception". Life exists before and after conception (sperm cells are technically "alive" in a biological sense),but human life only, ONLY begins with the formation of the brain.

Not quite. Yes, after the nervous system and the brain have started forming there is nervous impulses but these do not represent human sentience. I would say that the limit for abortion should just past this point, right before meaningful brain signals.

Again, this is just a detail in an anotherwise great post.

Thanks. It means a lot to me to know that people actually read the stuff I write.

As for the limit being meaningful brain signals, I concur entirely. However, the problem is that we don't have the technology (yet) to interpret what is meaningful human sentience or human cognizance. I really do wish the neuro-guys would invent someway to be able to scan thoughts - I'm pretty sure such technology is possible. But since it's not.... would it be fair to err on the side of caution?

I understand that in the case of risk to a mother's life, we can't err on the side of caution, but in the case of simply an unwanted pregnancy.... true, just because the brain has formed, it might NOT be fully conscious.... but we don't know. Or do we? I haven't kept up with neuroscience lately.

Ideally, we should have a machine that could scan a foetus's brain for signs of cognition, pain recognition, etc, but until then..... I just feel we've got to be really careful. Mabye a formed brain doesn't automatically mean the foetus is capable of self-awareness or feeling pain, but the presence of the formed brain, in my opinion, implies the possibility that the foetus could. In this case, should we err on the side of caution?

I'm still working this issue out in my head.

 

[KelsieKatt]

I mean, hell, going by this constant whining about how a fetus is a potential child, you should be absolutely damning men who masturbate for wasting all of those lives. Or women, who shed an egg every single time they have a period.

Could not agree more. I hate the whole 'potential life' angle or the old "You don't know what that baby could have been!"

Generally speaking, every time people don't have sex and make children from the moment they're able to reproduce, they're wasting potential life.

Hell, even if men avoid masturbating, those sperm cells are going to expire eventually and the body will continually make new ones. Just like women's bodies destroy eggs on a regular basis.

---

Anyway, ignoring all that.

I'm sure there's plenty of people in the world who if it weren't illegal wouldn't mind taking the law into their own hands under these circumstances. And to be perfectly honest, if someone were to drop a cinder block on the father's head a few times, I wouldn't bat an eye.

I feel no pity for this man. That said, I'm not saying I personally would do anything myself about this, as I'm too apathetic to try. However, if something happened to him in the news, I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't smirk a bit.

 

[Jedoro]

Drop a cinder block on his head, and put the video online.

 

[Korolev]

SNIP

First of all, great post. This is an excellent example of how science can and SHOULD be used to solve ethics problems. We shouldn't base these things just on religion or our natural instinct, as these are often in accurate or restrictive.

Oh, and another reason to ban late-stage abortions is that they also present a serious health risk to mother.

However, one little detail:

Abortion before the brain is formed? No problem.
Abortion AFTER the brain has formed? Big problem.

I, as an atheist, don't believe in the soul. At all. I'm also not one of those people who think that "human life beings at conception". Life exists before and after conception (sperm cells are technically "alive" in a biological sense),but human life only, ONLY begins with the formation of the brain.

Not quite. Yes, after the nervous system and the brain have started forming there is nervous impulses but these do not represent human sentience. I would say that the limit for abortion should just past this point, right before meaningful brain signals.

Again, this is just a detail in an anotherwise great post.

hmm... my 2 cents: i thought that "presupposing you believe in a soul" a sentient being is one capable of higher level rationalization and reason, and most commonly a form of empathy and moral calender.
...
there are a lot of ADULTS who don't have one or multiples of these traits, much less an undeveloped or even very young infant brain.

OT:
the guy is screwed up, the girl is embarrassing, both are are paragons for the worst humanity has to offer... and the most shameful.

True, some adults have.... well, malformed brains that remove their ability to empathize with people. Some famous psychopaths (charles whitman for one) had brain tumours or brain maladies that pretty much eliminated their ability to properly think through moral situations. And yes, some adults don't really think things through or use their brain to their full potential.

However, it is still wrong to kill these people because it removes the possibility that the might one day use their brain or have a cure for such a malady/disease. In the case of destroying an embryo or an early stage foetus, my point is that the have no brain at all. Their brain doesn't exist, period. Therefore, there is no "person" to kill. With people who merely don't use their brains or have malformed brains, we need to err on the side of caution and assume that they might be capable of higher-order thinking.

It's also the reason I don't want people to kill those with learning deficiencies. Again, the science of sentience or cognizance is very messy. We know, fairly certainly, that consciousness and higher order thinking is a function of the brain, but we don't know exactly which systems in the brain are responsible for which mental functions - we have a general idea (we know fairly well what part of the brain is responsible for the ability to interpret language), but it's still not nailed down.

That's why I'm one of those "super cautious" types. An embryo has no brain at all, so it's fairly safe to say that it has no ability to think or feel. It's not a person because there is ZERO brain. But for late term foetuses, the criminally or pathologically violent or the mentally.... challenged, we know that the brain is still there. As long as the brain isn't completely destroyed (as in the patient cannot see, hear, move or think and only the brain stem remains), then we've got to err on the side of caution.

I'm just super, super cautious. Some would call me nit-picky. So that's my (current, susceptible to change in light of really good evidence) morality:

1) Does it have a brain or a mostly intact/formed brain? Then try to preserve it's life. Even if the person has brain damage, as long as most or hell, even half the brain is still there, it is good to err on the side of caution to keep the patient/subject/foetus alive (as long as it doesn't threaten the life of the mother in the case of a foetus. If it does threaten the life of the mother then.... well, sorry, but you've got to save the mother's life)
2) Does it have no brain or is 90% of its brain gone? Then it's probably not worth saving. I can't be sure.... but if the frontal lobe, the occipital lobe, and most of the other lobes are gone..... is there still a person left to save? If the brain isn't there, then it's fairly safe to say that there isn't really isn't a "human" or a "person" there. Human DNA is not the qualifer of a human life. HeLa cells have human DNA, but they're not a human life. Human cognition is the definition of human life.

As others have said.... I can't be sure that just because there is a brain that the person is thinking or fully aware or fully human. But I have to be cautious and assume there is. It's not perfect, but it's the best moral system I can come up with: Brain? Try to save if possible. No Brain or almost no brain? Don't even bother.

I wish I could be more exact... but I didn't go into neuroscience. Had the option, didn't take it. Sort of wish I had.

 

[gisadodpapa]

I hope he dies in a slow and painful manner, I don't like babies and I still found this to be revolting.

 

[MrGameluvr92]

SERIOUSLY?! This guy didn't think at some point to, oh I don't know, put it up for adoption or something?! I know that there are sick and extremely stupid individuals on this planet but WTF!!!!!!

And this is why I support the death penalty.

I'm beginning to as well.