Mass Effect isn't an RPG?!

[Twilight_guy]

Stuff

K. So long as you know that I've always heard RPG are defined by the numbers and not the roles I'm good.

 

[mad825]

I didn't "fail" to see anything and I'd appreciate it if you didn't talk to me in that tone. I was simply stating the fact that the only thing predetermined about Mass Effect is the name of the character. It's still an RPG because you can choose pretty much everything else about the character.

........
"I think that's nonsense"
case in point.

But I don't really care. I have a life believe it or not and I don't particularly enjoy being involved in an argument about what game is "truly" an RPG and what game is not. The fact Bioware call Mass Effect an RPG is good enough for me. Sod it.

Oh really?
that's very disrespectful and yet a very childish insult.regardless, if you don't want to get involved in a argument then don't bother posting in a thread like this, take this as a lesson in life.

 

[G-Force]

Yeah...it is an RPG, why? Because you have a customizable character that has choices that you must live out in the game. You are that character, you are Shepard.

Would you say that sports games where you make your own character and go through a career mode where you make pivotal choices (like in many wrestling games) are RPGs as well?

 

[warprincenataku]

In The Elder Scrolls: Morrowind you clicked on your enemies and prayed you hit them due to an invisible dice roll compared to your skill level and your enemies.

In The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion you had direct control whether you attack landed or not on top of that the attacks were somewhat physics based.

Are they both RPG's? Yes, but they both have very different gameplay.

 

[Kortney]

........
"I think that's nonsense"
case in point.

I was saying that calling Mass Effect not an RPG is nonsense. Which I do stand by. Mass Effect is an RPG. I wasn't calling anything associated with KOTOR as nonsense. Please do not jump to conclusions and assume I am replying directly to a particular part of a quote. The section of the quote I was referring to was him saying that Mass Effect isn't an RPG because it has a defined character. I don't believe it has a defined character.

Oh really?
that's very disrespectful and yet a very childish insult.regardless, if you don't want to get involved in a argument then don't bother posting in a thread like this, take this as a lesson in life.

What the hell are you talking about? I did not insult you at all. Reading back I can see how you may have implied that and I sincerely apologise. I did not mean to imply any insults or judgment towards you what so ever. I was genuinely talking about myself. Please, for the second time, stop using that tone against me.

 

[MercurySteam]

We had an argument very similar [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.203865-RPGs-defined?page=1] to this one and it turned out that the OP didn't know what he was talking about. To save time I'm just going to repost what I said:

RPGs are wargames wherein you control an individual defined by numbers so as to separate player skill/knowledge/ability and character skill/knowledge/abilty. It is not about choices, story or any of that bullshit. NetHack = RPG, Mass Effect = chest-high-wall-shooter.

Anyone agree?

No. Story, choices and all of those are RPG things. Mass Effect = RPG, whether you like it or not.

This man speaks of the truth.

If in a conversation, someone says Hello and you are given a choice between responding with G'day or Fuck Off then you are playing the character's role, and therefore you are roleplaying.

If it dresses like and RPG and farts like an RPG then there's a good chance it's an RPG.

 

[Spencer Petersen]

While the dialogue and character action/reaction definitely make it an RPG the combat and other sections are fundamentally similar no matter what character path you chose to take. The combat styles don't change, the enemies don't change the items and weapons you use don't change. I would classify it as a Half-RPG.

(If you don't agree with my "combat strategy is the same" assessment just think about this: Imagine you're watching someone play either Mass Effect while skipping over all the dialogue sections and then try to figure out if that was a Paragon or Renegade.)

 

[Engarde]

I usually classify the games like they play... I may mention Mass Effect in "RPG threads", but for me it played like a Shooter with talking bits (and I'd call Fallout 3 almost a total FPS)...

You may get confused fast if you want to make a general definition out of it or if you want to narrow/limit it to certain factors as more and more Shooters like the latest Wolfenstein (that had item shops, item upgrades, quests and even a "main hub" with several missions) etc. or Dead Space/Bioshock (with armor and weapon upgrades + different abilities and ability enhancers/perks) get more and more "RPG elements".

If it plays like an RPG (Baldur's Gate, Dragon Age) I call it an RPG, if it plays like a shooter e.g. you run around and actually shoot stuff... with a gun for the largest part of the game I call it a shooter.

You have put this well. We are all arguing over something largely subjective. Honestly, most people are set enough in their ways that is largely unlikely someone will have their opinion permanently swayed from these discussions.

I agree with you, too. I think Mass Effect played like a shooter with talkie bits. I did not much like the talkie bits either, but that is an entirely seperate thread.

 

[jamescorck]

Absolutely agree with you right there.

It's not hard to see why people refuse to call Mass Effect an RPG. They seem to just focus on the action, because it's not turn based, or it doesn't have damage points floating over the enemies' heads, or because it doesn't force you to grind up a load before facing the end of a level, etc. In that aspect Mass Effect has a lot of shooter, which is good! It makes the action digestable, thrilling, entertaining.

The RPG core and soul of Mass Effect resides in the story, the characters, the plot development and the dialogue. You do feel it to be your story, or at least the story of your Commander Shepard. When I play tabletop Role Games with my fellows on the weekends, that's what we focus the most on, the stories and the way we develop our characters. Mass Effect is like that. Instead of throwing dice you are launching grenades and blasting off aliens. Which is 100 times cooler.

 

[StBishop]

As long as your character's actions aren't linearly scripted, it's an RPG. This makes Mass Effect an RPG.

RPG is a highly debatable term these days. Japanese RPGs did most of the foundations in terms of video game RPGs, and they did so by involving player stats and highly customizable battle/equipment setups. However, now that Western RPGs have come onto the scene, we have people claiming that the key element of role-playing is the ability to indeed play a role, making decisions and driving the story and personality of the main character. So it's hard to really know what an RPG is in the first place.

I say any of these elements counts as "RPG elements," meaning that a game that incorporates them as a huge aspect of the game is an RPG. The first Mass Effect is absolutely an RPG. THe second is more debatable, but I would still call it an action RPG.

It's a sticky subject, but some people have gotten really picky about it. For that matter, often people will make up a new definition specifically to exclude some kind of RPG they don't like (I'm looking squarely at you, JRPG haters). You can't let it bother you; disagree, debate it if you want, but it's a typical occurrence.

This makes me think about Paper Mario. I had deduced that it was an RPG because of its use of experience points, and all RPGs to my knowledge have those. But now with the more Western style of unscripted action and nonlinearity based in having your character play a unique role in the story, is it still an RPG by Western Standards? Are the Pokemon games RPGs in that same standard?

It's all so confusing.

I thought pokemon games are JRPG's. Aren't they? I thought this was general concensus.

 

[Chunko]

The bit about it being about putting yourself into someone else's shoes. If that were the case I feel like HL2 would be an RPG.

I didn't say anything about putting on someone else's shoes.

I said create your own character.

Well in that case as much as I like mass effect your choices are limited in both appearance and choices. By those standards SR2 is an RPG.

 

[seditary]

A lot of agro going on all over the place here, surprised there hasn't been some moderator wrath thrown about.

Personally the fact that RPG is even muttered in consideration to a electronic entertainment device is incorrect.

RPG is not a computer gaming genre. There's RPGs, then CRPGs, and that's it. CRPGs are so broad there is no practical meaning to the term anymore and is only worth fun arguing in ridiculous threads such as this.

 

[TheDrunkNinja]

Apeshit? That seems more excessive than anything I've done here.

You're right, you didn't mention JRPGs (though your definition of RPG belies your intent). It has been mentionned in this thread quite a bit by others (which is exactly what a thread like this would become - and by the second post).

No, I didn't go apeshit. If I were, I would not be this civil ^.^

My definition of an RPG is for me alone and not the subject of this thread as it was only mentioned once and then dropped in favor of the comparisons of Mass Effect to KotOR. Unless you want to believe my secret "intent" was to antagonize JRPGs by not speaking about them at all?

If others have been talking shit about JRPGs, take it up with them. Otherwise, stop acting like everyone here is just out for a genre bashing.

 

[TheDrunkNinja]

Well in that case as much as I like mass effect your choices are limited in both appearance and choices. By those standards SR2 is an RPG.

I have a wonder as to if you even read my original post at all.

 

[Chunko]

Apeshit? That seems more excessive than anything I've done here.

You're right, you didn't mention JRPGs (though your definition of RPG belies your intent). It has been mentionned in this thread quite a bit by others (which is exactly what a thread like this would become - and by the second post).

No, I didn't go apeshit. If I were, I would not be this civil ^.^

My definition of an RPG is for me alone and not the subject of this thread as it was only mentioned once and then dropped in favor of the comparisons of Mass Effect to KotOR. Unless you want to believe my secret "intent" was to antagonize JRPGs by not speaking about them at all?

If others have been talking shit about JRPGs, take it up with them. Otherwise, stop acting like everyone here is just out for a genre bashing.

I read the first four paragraphs, if you're a good writer I should be able to get away with only reading the first.

 

[UBERfionn]

Your 100% right in my book.

It's about making and ROLE PLAYING your character.
JRPG's are not RPG's for that reason.

The same goes for you too.

RPG's are about role playing. Menu systems and exp help in the role playing but it's just one part of it. the core is the role playing.

I'm sure there are some JRPG's that do have proper role playing in them but mmost don't and are still labeled as RPG's.

JRPG's can be awesome but just because you have exp and menu's does not make you an RPG.

I can cop out or what it is one says with;
Just because you have choices in a game doesn't mean it's an RPG.

If you're going to point your finger at one specific type and say "That's not RPG".. Then you are wrong.

Sure just having choises in a game does not make it an RPG, but they do help towards makeing a connection to the PC.
Thats what I mean by Role playing. YOU are the hero, YOU suffer through his down's and rejoice when he wins. There is a connection in RPG's with the PC, he is your connection to the world, s/he is a part of you. That's what I mean when I say that by in large JRPG's are not RPG's.