May Daggerdale represents the peak of failure for Action RPGs

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Kaanyr Vhok

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The most unambitious genre is the action adventure game. When studios and their bankers aspire to take advantage of film or the cartoon the common peddle is action adventure game. As a template with changing skins the base hack and slash combos are familiar and predicable. Even the handful that I may declare decent or good succeed with polish and aesthetics over innovation.

Usually when an RPG takes on the action prefix its does nothing but adopt the slothful idleness of the action adventure genre. I could see this pattern rearing in 2000-2003. With 3D graphics, multiplayer, the need to branch to consoles and the overall boost in hardware gumption, combining the vigor of action combat and the character development of an RPG was sound strategy. With games like Shenmue and Deus Ex I was not at issue with the transition.
I don?t care about the style as much as quality. It just hasn?t gotten better. With the exception of some of the shooters that are saved by the aiming recticle Action RPGs are no better than the come lately movie games. The Dark Alliance/Diablo ilk made no bones of their simplicity. I say they are not worth playing when games like Ninja Gaiden offer just as much character development and thrice the gameplay.... in my opinion at least. I wont question those that like them or offline multiplayer with restricted cams. I do wonder if a game like Shenmue could be played with a Diablo style cam.

That begs the question. If EA, Atari and others are going to attempt to garner the casuals with action combat how about they take the time a develop a real fighting engine to be what Virtua Fighter was to Shenmue? Else what we are getting is second rate shit that is certainly worse than the TB and realtime pause games of the past. I spit on DA 2, and Daggerdale and any other game that passes on decent strategy for 3rd rate action combat with the same sloth of Sega?s Thor or whatever film game. At least with Shenmue and the Way of the Samurai the Japanese were able to take their expertise with a fighting game and a long running stealth/action series. If the developers in Japan weren?t so out of touch they would have never lost market to the western RPG. They had the better action combat. Unfortionatly so much else was left to be desired.

Then you have Daggerddale. Atari has done nothing with the D&D license. Their last RPG to grace a console was Pool of Radiance on the NES. No Baldurs Gate DA was not an RPG. With Daggerdale We went from a Pool of Radiance to a puddle of piss.
 

EternalFacepalm

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I've only watched a video of it, but from what I can make out, it looks absolutely terrible, and generic. Never should a game ever have the fireball-spell. It's so insanely boring.
 

Lost In The Void

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Aug 27, 2008
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For a second I thought you meant Daggerfall and I was about to rage, as for this; I am indifferent; if I want a good D&D RPG I'll play Baldur's Gate or Planescape Torment
 

Hyper-space

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Kaanyr Vhok said:
The most unambitious genre is the action adventure game. When studios and their bankers aspire to take advantage of film or the cartoon the common peddle is action adventure game.
Its not the genre itself that is unambitious, but a part of what it offers that is. Saying that would be like condemning the entire FPS genre because publishers try to copy whats making the most $$$ (something that i don't really understand, f.x. you can't out-CoD call of duty).

There is no genre that is more crappier than the next, sure 90% of it all might be crap, but that still leaves 10% to be enjoyed and remembered. So to say that a game that looks meh represents the "peak" of failure is just melodrama, crap comes and goes, nothing new under the sun, et cetera...

Also, you say that Diablo/Dark Alliance and such doesn't compare to Ninja Gaiden, ummm...aren't they two completely different types of games? kind of comparing apples to oranges.
 

Kaanyr Vhok

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bussinrounds said:
Actually the last d&d rpg to grace the consoles was Warriors of the Eternal Sun for the Sega Genesis. After this one is when i should of gotten into pc gaming. Little did i know that the consoles i owned would be swamped with damn jrpgs after that.
My god I never heard of that game. 92 was a rough year for me though. I bow to your knowledge.

Hyper-space said:
Its not the genre itself that is unambitious, but a part of what it offers that is. Saying that would be like condemning the entire FPS genre because publishers try to copy whats making the most $$$ (something that i don't really understand, f.x. you can't out-CoD call of duty).
I have no problem with calling out FPSs for all the Call of Duty wannabes. It?s the same as if I said that birds are the animals that fly. Some birds don?t fly while some squirrels, fish and many insect do etc etc. Its just a generality. Same with the action adventure genre and arguably FPSs to a lesser extent.

I'm not pinning this on the entire genre. Problem is RPG devs dont borrow what works. They are always trying to make a poor mans DMC instead of looking at the non-combat stuff that works in a game like Beyond Good and Evil.

Also, you say that Diablo/Dark Alliance and such doesn't compare to Ninja Gaiden, ummm...aren't they two completely different types of games? kind of comparing apples to oranges.
The only difference is the camera, multiplayer and the fact that Ninja Gaiden offers three times the attacks and combos so it doesn?t degenerate into a button masher (as easily). The actual RPG side to BGDA and Diablo is negligible in comparison to most action adventure games which usually feature their share of character development. BGDA is Ninja Gaiden without the gameplay and with co-op. I would rather have online multiplayer in a game like Ninja Gaiden then rinse and repeat another round in Castle Crasher. That format has shot its wad. Its old now.
 

Kaanyr Vhok

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Nautical Honors Society said:
Though your qualms with the game may be true, don't generalize about a genre. Or anything ever for that matter.
Why not? Birds fly, shit on cars and eat trash.
 

Condiments

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Action RPGs generally suck developers try to merge diametrically opposed gameplay styles. Action adventure is all about direct player input. Its less about strategy and tactics and more the players ability to react instantly and correctly. RPGs are built around systems that remove direct player influence through statistics. The intention is for the player to focus on the overarching flow of a fight by applying their characters correctly, rather than worrying about every individual sword swing. This is especially important when gameplay is built around group scenarios.

Now how do you merge genres that try to achieve opposite things? Its something developers still struggle with. To combat this scenario, many devs have tried to boil each genre to its simplest principles. The result however, is action gameplay where you never feel truly in control, and RPG elements that aren't anywhere near as fulfilling. I'm sure when we've played action RPGs we've died to a boss because even though you kicked its ass, its health bar wouldn't budge and it would maim your character in two hits? Simplistic or nonexistent combo systems? Threadbare skill trees? Yeah we've all seen that.

Its just an unfortunate trend that we've been seeing. Action RPGs are fun, but that turn based/RTwP systems are "outdated" because there isn't SICK NEXT GEN ACTION is ridiculous.
 

Skratt

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Dec 20, 2008
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Yeah! Pfft, fireball, that is soo 2nd edition. Real men bluff, tumble and firewall, fo sho.

*rollseyes*

It's just a game guys, relax.
 
Sep 17, 2009
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Kaanyr Vhok said:
Nautical Honors Society said:
Though your qualms with the game may be true, don't generalize about a genre. Or anything ever for that matter.
Why not? Birds fly, shit on cars and eat trash.
Emu's can't fly, penguins don't live in an area where cars are around, and hummingbirds don't eat trash.

I don't get what you are doing here, but lulz
 

Telperion

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Apr 17, 2008
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Yeah, I suppose the OP has made some points in this thread. Not that I really care all that much, but sure: (IMO) the majority of games out there aren't worth playing. I tried the first DA, and was disgusted with it, so I simply skipped the sequel. Then came Witcher 2, and I'm happy with it. Not ecstatic, mind you, but happy enough to play and enjoy the game for what it is. There are quite a few games that fall into this category, but then again I can enjoy a simple game every now and then. It doesn't need to challenge me particularly much, just enough to keep my attention and entertain me with a mediocre storyline. Like, for example, ME and it's sequel: ain't much there as far as storytelling is concerned, but it's an entertaining shooter-fest of a series. So, I'll buy the third installment just to see how it all ends. Not because I expect to see anything groundbreaking, but for the experience, which should be enough to keep me entertained until the end. And then I'll probably get a kick out of seeing BioWare trying to shoehorn DLC epilogues into the game to keep sales going for as long as possible. Maybe they'll even ape Bungie, and go the way of Halo ODST.
 

Zaik

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Hey guys, i might be wrong, but I think the op dislikes "action adventure games", whatever the hell that means.

It's kind of hard to tell through the pointless lingual jungle and constant "it's bad because it's bad because it's bad because it's bad because...".

Someone who speaks both English and whatever language that is should probably clarify though. Also being able to speak in Sarcasm would help greatly, as it is my native language, but tri-lingual people are rare so just two is fine.
 

Biased Observer

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bussinrounds said:
Actually the last d&d rpg to grace the consoles was Warriors of the Eternal Sun for the Sega Genesis. After this one is when i should of gotten into pc gaming. Little did i know that the consoles i owned would be swamped with damn jrpgs after that.
Actually, there was an XBox game called D&D Heroes that came out 2003, though it didn't strictly abide by the D&D rules.
But from what I've seen of Daggerdale, which is not very much, it's a lot like Heroes, which wasn't so bad.
 

ph3195k9

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Biased Observer said:
bussinrounds said:
Actually the last d&d rpg to grace the consoles was Warriors of the Eternal Sun for the Sega Genesis. After this one is when i should of gotten into pc gaming. Little did i know that the consoles i owned would be swamped with damn jrpgs after that.
Actually, there was an XBox game called D&D Heroes that came out 2003, though it didn't strictly abide by the D&D rules.
But from what I've seen of Daggerdale, which is not very much, it's a lot like Heroes, which wasn't so bad.
Aw man I was going to say that...aw well it was an excellent game though especially when you have 4 friends all in the same room. Seriously this game was my first all nighter.
 

Judgement101

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Lost In The Void said:
For a second I thought you meant Daggerfall and I was about to rage, as for this; I am indifferent; if I want a good D&D RPG I'll play Baldur's Gate or Planescape Torment
If someone said this about Daggerfall, the mods would have to have super speed to lock this before 1000+ rage comments were posted.
 

Savagezion

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What? This in no way speak against the action RPG genre. This speaks against low budgets and/or Bedlam Games development studios. Which we all pretty much could have told you before the fact. What I see is a D&D cash grab. It's like a Thor cash grab but with D&D instead. There is nothing wrong with action RPGs, there is just something wrong with people that are OK with making shitty games.