men involved with domestic violence

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Aaron Sylvester

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Thyunda said:
Defend himself and...run away. Mm...Y'know, if they weren't actors and were a real couple, he'd have had to go home to her at some point. Maybe he already asked someone what he should do. Maybe he went to his dear old da' and asked him how he should deal with his abusive spouse, and maybe his dad told him to 'stop being a ******' for being affected by it. Maybe he genuinely loves her and he just takes the beatings with the affection.

Just like women have done in that situation. Not too different, the sexes, you know.

My partners never beat me. Okay, yeah, one of them did, another enjoyed digging nails in whenever she wanted to iron out her point in an argument. With the former, every time it was played for laughs. I thought nothing of it. Still think nothing of it. What's your plan for that situation, dude? Defend myself and run away? God, yeah, that would work. Y'know, till I have to return to her.
Umm I was talking about defending + running away not to save himself, but to avoid the awkwardness of having to retaliate against the woman in public.
If that whole situation happened away from onlookers/public...well, lets just say that if I was that guy, I would make her deeply regret trying to use violence on me. Ideally I would never even let it reach that stage because having to hurt a woman is plain wrong, even in self defense.

Domestic violence is partially the victim's fault if they have convinced themselves to accept and embrace it. Especially if it's a man, i.e. someone who is more than capable of putting a stop to it whenever he likes both mentally and physically.

Like others have said domestic violence is psychological more than anything else, and I have no sympathy for psychological weakness (unless the person has a mental illness). It just doesn't compute for me. Psychological weakness can be fixed in an instant if the victim genuinely WANTS to change their situation.
 

Chris Tian

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PoolCleaningRobot said:
Ah, that makes sense. Given that there probably a lot of situations where the abusers hands are "tied" I can see how effective this technique would be
It is a bit situational, thats why I said its the second technique I teach.

PoolCleaningRobot said:
Thank you both. That answers my question. But barbzilla, are you saying people should avoid doing it if they can't do it right?
barbzilla said:
If you are in a life or death situation, I'd advise you to do what is necessary to stay alive as priority number 1, anything that doesn't fall under priority number 1, I don't think you should use it, even if you were able to do it 100%.
barbzilla is of course one hundert percent right, that plus the technique being situational is why its the second thing I recommend. The first is the kick/knee to the groin, its so obvious that people tend to forget about it. An attacker who isn't 100% serious about it will probably find something else to do after that. If the attacker is serious the victim can use the opening he will most likely leave by instinctively protecting his groin to do the eye gauge.
 

Chris Tian

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Aaron Sylvester said:
Psychological weakness can be fixed in an instant if the victim genuinely WANTS to change their situation.
I don't agree, think of it like physical strength, that can't appear in an instant either. I know that is hard to understand for mentally strong people and I can't really wrap my head around it either, but it just is that way.

Psychologically dependence can just sneak into your being without you noticing before its too late. When the victim realizes its being abused it is already under the psychological control of its abuser. At that point its to late to just end your dependency and go.
 

Thaluikhain

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Elfgore said:
I think they should no longer go by feminist, because the word does sound like women over men. Change it up to equalist or something. The writers who you refer to are radical feminist, or femnazis.
Who's equality are equalists fighting for? You can't just go and say everyone.

Also, feminists have a bad name because they've been smeared by their opponents. Changing their name will just have their new name smeared the same way. Hell, "Social Justice" has been given a bad name, and you can't get more generic than that.
 

BloatedGuppy

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Elfgore said:
I think they should no longer go by feminist, because the word does sound like women over men. Change it up to equalist or something.
See, this really annoys me. We're okay with "History", literally HIS STORY, because we all know what the fuck it means and only a few select, professionally outraged individuals seriously take issue with it.

But feminism, which historically refers to equality between the sexes, needs to have its definition changed because there's a "fem" in there, and who can be assed to endure that!

"Equalist". PFAH. You are killing language.

 

MeTalHeD

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This reminds me of when comedian Jim Jeffries described visiting his gay comedian friend in South Africa. They two would be wingmen for each other in bars and clubs. Jim would try to get women while his friend would try to get men. It all worked well until they were in a gay bar. Jim, being the drug and alcohol abuser he is, hears that someone is going to do a line of cocaine in the bathroom so he decides to join him, not thinking (because he was drunk) that some of the men do more than just coke in the bathroom.

They get into the bathroom, his companion unzips his pants and Jim is staring at the biggest penis he has ever seen. He eventually convinces the guy that he wasn't interested in sex (or men) and they just enjoyed a line of coke (I am not condoning the cocaine by any means).

Then he says in the interest of comic relief "so he raped me". Sure, the audience was laughing, but he made a good point. Why is it funny when men get raped? If a woman said that, even a stand-up comedian, would people have laughed?

It's the same thing when it comes to other types of abuse. It is a myth that men cannot be abused. If not physically, emotionally and psychologically. I read an account of a man who had been raped and his battle to get the authorities to believe him or take him seriously: http://www.avoiceformen.com/sexual-politics/m-g-t-o-w/a-mgtow-journey-classification-declassified/

I also understand that women may choose not to report the abuser because it is incredibly difficult. People say things like not reporting him might allow him to continue raping, but it until someone does that to you, you cannot know the internal battles they have. Still, I do believe there is a reason so many people have marches and protests against rape. I know a former police officer who joined the force because she was molested when she was a child. She joined marches against domestic abuse too (her ex husband was abusive) and she said it was important that women reported rape and domestic abuse, even if it is difficult. She didn't believe in silence. She said silence is an abuser's greatest tool because it allows them to keep abusing.

She was also of the (informed) opinion that many men faced domestic abuse and they too should speak out. This cultural belief that cowboys don't cry created generations of men who kept quiet when they were molested as boys or abused as men. Even today, people will tell you to "man up" if a woman is being abusive. It is considered acceptable for him to "take it" and some people go so far as to say he deserves it.

I remember watching Everybody Loves Raymond, a TV show I enjoyed in the 90s (when I was a teen), and when I watch the reruns today, I cringe. Sure, he was a bit spoiled and a bit of a pushover (and a schemer), but the way his wife treated him seemed abusive, yet they made a sitcom from it. It is okay to laugh at a man who has to walk on eggshells around his wife, receive psychological and emotional abuse when she isn't happy, and ensure he panders to her as much as possible before they can even have sex. It might be silly to use that show as an example, but there seems to be a theme running through our culture that it's okay to treat a man badly, that he deserves it and that men cannot be raped.

Maybe I am reading a bit much into a TV show, but anyone else get a hint of this?
 

Thyunda

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Aaron Sylvester said:
Thyunda said:
Defend himself and...run away. Mm...Y'know, if they weren't actors and were a real couple, he'd have had to go home to her at some point. Maybe he already asked someone what he should do. Maybe he went to his dear old da' and asked him how he should deal with his abusive spouse, and maybe his dad told him to 'stop being a ******' for being affected by it. Maybe he genuinely loves her and he just takes the beatings with the affection.

Just like women have done in that situation. Not too different, the sexes, you know.

My partners never beat me. Okay, yeah, one of them did, another enjoyed digging nails in whenever she wanted to iron out her point in an argument. With the former, every time it was played for laughs. I thought nothing of it. Still think nothing of it. What's your plan for that situation, dude? Defend myself and run away? God, yeah, that would work. Y'know, till I have to return to her.
Umm I was talking about defending + running away not to save himself, but to avoid the awkwardness of having to retaliate against the woman in public.
If that whole situation happened away from onlookers/public...well, lets just say that if I was that guy, I would make her deeply regret trying to use violence on me. Ideally I would never even let it reach that stage because having to hurt a woman is plain wrong, even in self defense.

Domestic violence is partially the victim's fault if they have convinced themselves to accept and embrace it. Especially if it's a man, i.e. someone who is more than capable of putting a stop to it whenever he likes both mentally and physically.

Like others have said domestic violence is psychological more than anything else, and I have no sympathy for psychological weakness (unless the person has a mental illness). It just doesn't compute for me. Psychological weakness can be fixed in an instant if the victim genuinely WANTS to change their situation.
It is never the victim's fault. Psychological damage is just as real as physical damage, and you'd have to be very lacking in empathy not to see that. The entire point of psychological abuse is that they can't want to change their situation, because their situation is the beginning and end of their universe, because that's how psychological abuse bloody works.

Here's a caveat for you. Derek loves Julie with all his heart and she is everything to him. When Julie gets drunk, she beats the everloving shit out of Derek. He tries to defend himself but eventually the onslaught gets just too much and he takes a few cuts and bruises. Derek has two ways out of this situation: Move out, leave her, abandon his entire life. Or he can fight back and strike her. Do you have a significant other, Aaron Sylvester? If not, your mother or sister (if you have one) will do just fine for this.

Picture their face. Now genuinely imagine punching it and inflicting damage. Watch as they start trickling blood from cuts in their cheeks and from their nose and lips, and watch the face you recognise start swelling up and turning purple.

Not a pretty image, is it? 'cause your love for that person is still there, and it will always be there, even if that person randomly starts beating the fuck out of you. You wanna know why? It's because you know that person. You know they'd never do that to you. It's the drink's fault. It's the drugs. It's just a bad week. She's having a hard time at work. If you can genuinely consider striking the woman you love, for any reason, you're probably not that into her.


This entire scenario works just fine in reverse. You, my friend, clearly just don't understand domestic abuse.

EDIT: Also, your solution to the problem is absolutely fucking nonsensical. She attacks you in public. You run home and...I dunno...cry or whatever. So she comes home and you "Make her regret ever trying to use violence on you."

Ten minutes later, she's bruised to shit and the police are pushing you into the back of their car. Either that, or her friends are on their way over to make you regret ever trying to use violence on her.

Good fuckin plan, dude.
 

Lil devils x_v1legacy

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MeTalHeD said:
I remember watching Everybody Loves Raymond, a TV show I enjoyed in the 90s (when I was a teen), and when I watch the reruns today, I cringe. Sure, he was a bit spoiled and a bit of a pushover (and a schemer), but the way his wife treated him seemed abusive, yet they made a sitcom from it. It is okay to laugh at a man who has to walk on eggshells around his wife, receive psychological and emotional abuse when she isn't happy, and ensure he panders to her as much as possible before they can even have sex. It might be silly to use that show as an example, but there seems to be a theme running through our culture that it's okay to treat a man badly, that he deserves it and that men cannot be raped.

Maybe I am reading a bit much into a TV show, but anyone else get a hint of this?

While making fun of domestic violence of any type is in poor taste and not what I would consider comedy, Everybody loves Raymond is not a good example of "realistic domestic violence" due to it's exaggerated state as a slap stick comedy.
Everybody loves Raymond was abusive all around, intentionally creating a terribly dysfunctional family in exaggerated form as a form of slap stick comedy. Slap stick comedy by definition always includes outrageous make believe violence and is it's key attraction.
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/548077/slapstick
Everybody loves Raymond is often used as a modern example of slapstick comedy being worked into sitcoms:
http://www.bricksinmotion.com/forums/topic/16209/slapstick-gag-ideas-anyone/

Raymond is no more an accurate representation of a "good husband and father" than Marie is of a " good mother in law" Everyone is dysfunctional on the show by design. Debra is abusive in the show similarly to how the three stooges are abusive, but you do not see people using the three stooges as an accurate portrayal of men on men violence because it is not. Good grief, when looking at Marie's character design on the show it appears to be taken straight out of a textbook example of what "emotional abuse" is.

http://fightagainstverbalabuse.wordpress.com/about/
 

Aaron Sylvester

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Thyunda said:
Here's a caveat for you. Derek loves Julie with all his heart and she is everything to him. When Julie gets drunk, she beats the everloving shit out of Derek. He tries to defend himself but eventually the onslaught gets just too much and he takes a few cuts and bruises. Derek has two ways out of this situation: Move out, leave her, abandon his entire life. Or he can fight back and strike her. Do you have a significant other, Aaron Sylvester? If not, your mother or sister (if you have one) will do just fine for this.

Picture their face. Now genuinely imagine punching it and inflicting damage. Watch as they start trickling blood from cuts in their cheeks and from their nose and lips, and watch the face you recognise start swelling up and turning purple.

Not a pretty image, is it? 'cause your love for that person is still there, and it will always be there, even if that person randomly starts beating the fuck out of you. You wanna know why? It's because you know that person. You know they'd never do that to you. It's the drink's fault. It's the drugs. It's just a bad week. She's having a hard time at work. If you can genuinely consider striking the woman you love, for any reason, you're probably not that into her.
I consider retaliating to the person I love only to the extent to which it takes to stop them, because I love them and don't want to see them in that enraged/angry state. Doesn't matter if it's my wife or mother, I will do what it takes. Also why does it have to be a strike? Against a woman that should only be a last resort. It can simply be a push, holding their arms tightly, or pinning them down. All that "punching blood swelling face" sounds like you exaggerated the crap out of how you thought I would "retaliate".

Thyunda said:
EDIT: Also, your solution to the problem is absolutely fucking nonsensical. She attacks you in public. You run home and...I dunno...cry or whatever. So she comes home and you "Make her regret ever trying to use violence on you."

Ten minutes later, she's bruised to shit and the police are pushing you into the back of their car. Either that, or her friends are on their way over to make you regret ever trying to use violence on her.

Good fuckin plan, dude.
Again, nice exaggerations. Why would I bruise the shit out of my partner if she did almost nothing to me (remember I defended and/or ran away in the public situation, I didn't sit there and take it)? Seems irrational. I'm fully aware of how quickly the situation could be turned around on me since I'm the male, so I'm extremely careful about how I retaliate.

Look, you're not getting me. I'm someone who won't tolerate a single ounce of physical violence being used against me - hurl all the mean words in the world (I'll gladly listen to it all) but the moment someone touches me, I draw the line there and I make it clear that they should never that again.

Hence no matter how drunk or drugged my wife is, or how crazy her day at work was, the last thing on her mind will be to resorting to violence on me (even if I have done something to anger her). Anyway I wouldn't even be in a relationship with someone who gets drunk or does drugs.

It's a matter of making smart decisions to avoid the situation to begin with. That's where the victim can GREATLY improve their chances. If a girl is dating a guy and finds out that he frequently gets super-drunk or has an extremely short temper, those are some huge fucking warning signals for the girl to prepare herself for what could come in the future no matter how much she "loves" him (or he "loves" her back). At that point it's her decision to stay or leave.

That's why I don't get all this psychological weakness stuff.
 

Hazy

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This is nothing new. Domestic abuse towards men has always been seen as comedic. But I sure am glad people are catching onto it.

Firestone released this bad boy a couple of months ago and I was overjoyed to see the negative reception it received.

[sub]Remember kids, emotional abuse is funny as long as you're a woman![/sub]​
 

Lil devils x_v1legacy

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Lacey said:
MeTalHeD said:
It's the same thing when it comes to other types of abuse. It is a myth that men cannot be abused. If not physically, emotionally and psychologically. I read an account of a man who had been raped and his battle to get the authorities to believe him or take him seriously: http://www.avoiceformen.com/sexual-politics/m-g-t-o-w/a-mgtow-journey-classification-declassified/
Y'know, just once I'd like to follow a link to AVFM and read something that doesn't conclude that the solution to helping men is to remove aid for women. Just once.

Oh, and all men's suffering is the fault of feminists. Yup yup. Don't forget that part.

But yeah, going to that site for reasonable discourse on gender is like going to Storm Front for reasonable discourse on race.
I honestly have to wonder how anyone would seriously link anything from a voice for men and expect to be taken seriously with all the ridiculoussness that comes from the authors on that site:

http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2013/04/02/reno-calls-a-domestic-violence-hotline-the-mra-reality-distortion-field-in-action/

When you listen to the audio of the call, the guy out right refuses to call the mens line, refuses to have a paid hotel room and wants to only be housed with the women in the women's shelter. Then goes on the site to say " He was denied help."

The thing is, many women support helping with mens issues such as improving their graduation rates, having access to resources for mental health, domestic violence, and poverty but when you actually try to help, you get flooded with anti female nonsense the point of what you were trying to do gets washed out.

The majority of the funding for " battered womens shelters" is by charities and private organizations. Women created these organizations by volunteering their time and donating their own money to open and run them. This is not as widespread for men because men have not done the same on the same scale. Honestly, I see the only way this will happen on a large enough scale to make a difference in access is if the women who organize this for women (the feminist they seem to think are causing the problems) expand to include men. However, they will also need men to help fund the charities to do so. That is when you run into major roadblocks to making this happen. We need feminists and mens rights to be on same team to be able to have enough funding to allow for expansions of these programs, but mens rights guys would rather not have facilities and resources expanded than to give a dime to feminist organizations that would be providing these services so nothing gets done.
 

Lightknight

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michael87cn said:
Male or female, you have a strong body with powerful muscles. If you aren't a total wimp you won't just allow someone to hurt you. A fully grown female is perfectly able to defend herself. A fully grown man likewise. Use your powerful assets to your advantage in a dangerous situation. Bite someones Freaking nose off if you have to, you got teeth, use what you need to, to defend yourself. Stab someone right in the eye, blinding them with your finger. A woman can do this just as easily as a man.
It'd be nice if true, but this isn't true, it simply isn't true. My wife is competent physically. She can hold her own against most men. But she literally cannot get the better of me if I don't want her to. We sometimes play wrestle and I have a vast advantage over her.

Now, if I were abusive or physically trying to hurt her, she'd have no chance. What's more is that a lot of people are scared, rightly so, of making it worse. You can't wave at a problem by saying, "Be brave!" or "Be Violent" when it simply isn't in some people's nature.
 
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Flutterguy said:
To raise awareness for a particular kind of violence seems silly to me. Like raising money to cure breast cancer. Just raise money to cure cancer.
Aren't all cancers different though? i.e. a cancer in certain regions of the body have different causes, effects and treatments?

Not trying to be a smart arse, I genuinely thought thats how it worked.
 

Saetha

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BloatedGuppy said:
Elfgore said:
I think they should no longer go by feminist, because the word does sound like women over men. Change it up to equalist or something.
See, this really annoys me. We're okay with "History", literally HIS STORY, because we all know what the fuck it means and only a few select, professionally outraged individuals seriously take issue with it.

But feminism, which historically refers to equality between the sexes, needs to have its definition changed because there's a "fem" in there, and who can be assed to endure that!

"Equalist". PFAH. You are killing language.
Uh... yeah, so the word "History" isn't some portmanteau of his and story. It comes from the Greek word historia. Historia means something that is learned through research, or a narrative that is learned. And the Greek male pronoun isn't "he" or "his." (The Greek equivalent to "his" is actually "aftou," I believe) While the pronoun "his" comes from Old English and Proto-Germanic (According to the Online Etymology Dictionary) So the word has completely different roots that, through some freak accident of linguistics and etymology, happens to be similar to the phrase "his story." Feminism, however, gets it's name from femina, the Latin word for "woman." So, uh... yeah, women are built into the word feminism, but men aren't built into the word history.
 

generals3

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The worst part about this isn't so much that people hold double standard but that even Lady Justicia does. A man is simply 100% helpless against an abusive woman. Pressing charges involves the risk that the charges are thrown back at you and due to double standards you're probably in for a hell of ride unless you got severely abused and never defended yourself. And than comes self defence which has also been rendered impossible. A woman using violence against a man? Cops do nothing. Man responding in proportion to the assault (=legal self defence!)? Woman is asked if she wants to press charge.

So yeah, what are you supposed to do if neither your fellow citizens nor even the law wants to respect your rights?
 

BloatedGuppy

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Saetha said:
Uh... yeah, so the word "History" isn't some portmanteau of his and story. It comes from the Greek word historia. Historia means something that is learned through research, or a narrative that is learned. And the Greek male pronoun isn't "he" or "his." (The Greek equivalent to "his" is actually "aftou," I believe) While the pronoun "his" comes from Old English and Proto-Germanic (According to the Online Etymology Dictionary) So the word has completely different roots that, through some freak accident of linguistics and etymology, happens to be similar to the phrase "his story." Feminism, however, gets it's name from femina, the Latin word for "woman." So, uh... yeah, women are built into the word feminism, but men aren't built into the word history.


Although a quick Google search tells me that history also springs from "Histor", which means "Learned wise man".

I don't really see a civil way to settle this. Pistols at dawn.
 

Lieju

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Yeah, abuse is bad no matter the genders of the abused.

Also, to everyone who thinks you can just walk away or fight back, no. It's not easy.
My mother walked away from my abusive dad, taking me with her, which cost her her job and all social life since she had to uproot everything and move to another city.
And people blamed her for doing it since EVEN PEOPLE WHO KNEW WHAT WAS GOING ON thought she should have loved him better, and thought of his needs.

That it was her fault.

Later on a woman who was dating my dad called my mother to tell her she was similarly abused, and had gotten my mom's number to ask her for help. But mostly support because she believed it was all her fault, and WHAT SHE COULD DO TO MAKE HIM STOP.

My mom told her that 'if someone hits once, they will likely hit again.'

My mum was only able to walk away because she was afraid for me, and even after all that tried to get my dad to have at least some kind of relationship with me. But he wasn't interested. Not until I was adult, anyway, he wasn't good with kids.

Also my uncle (who is the only religious member of my family) had a pretty bad marriage where the wife was, if not outright abusive, sort of a jerk (I'm not sure what exactly went on behind closed doors in that relationship). And he was told by the priest in his parish that he should not divorce but try to work on it, even when the marriage was breaking apart, and was pressured by the religious sect he was a part of not to get divorced because they had kids.
And since he is very religious he believed that was what god wanted...
 

TheEvilGenius

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I've actually done a fair bit of research on this topic, so let me chime in here. In the US, 830,000 men are victims of domestic violence (DV) every year. [https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/183781.pdf] the Department of Justice flat-out refuses to fund any research on male domestic abuse. Men who are victims of DV, are often ridiculed and revictimized by the law and law enforcement. When they seek help from domestic abuse advocates, they get told that they "must have done something to deserve it."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRCS6GGhIRc
 

MeTalHeD

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Lacey said:
MeTalHeD said:
It's the same thing when it comes to other types of abuse. It is a myth that men cannot be abused. If not physically, emotionally and psychologically. I read an account of a man who had been raped and his battle to get the authorities to believe him or take him seriously: http://www.avoiceformen.com/sexual-politics/m-g-t-o-w/a-mgtow-journey-classification-declassified/
Y'know, just once I'd like to follow a link to AVFM and read something that doesn't conclude that the solution to helping men is to remove aid for women. Just once.

Oh, and all men's suffering is the fault of feminists. Yup yup. Don't forget that part.

But yeah, going to that site for reasonable discourse on gender is like going to Storm Front for reasonable discourse on race.
Oh really? Good lord, I actually stumbled across that article. I'll keep that in mind for next time. And...I've never heard of Storm Front before either...

From what I gather, I shouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole?