Metal Gear Solid 4 On 360?

[tiredinnuendo]

Okay.Fair Enough.

Just answer one question.Can you think of a non-JRPG game(Blue Dragon - facepalm) that took up more than 20GB?

I'm with you here. 50 GB is an obscene amount of space. There have been very few (if any) games, including RPGs and MMOs, that have even used half of that data.

I'm thinking it's either redundant data, contains previous versions of MGS games as unlockable extras, or is a grossly inflated figure. Saying that there are cut-scenes doesn't cut it. You can get The Ten Commandments on a normal DVD.

- J

 

[zeekthegeek]

So lets sum up the reasons right now.

1> Kojima and Sony have had a fantastic relationship for over a decade. He has specifically stated that if he wanted to make something for 360, he would make something original, and that Metal Gear is to Sony what Halo is to Microsoft.

2> Disk space. Anyone saying it's not realistic does not know much about game filesizes, especially in the current console generation. Audio is a huge thing with 5.1 and even 7.1 becoming more and more common for the gamign household. Oblivion was planning to have an entire disk layer on 360 dedicated solely to audio, and Metal Gear is probably one of the most dialog-heavy series out there, if not the most. Not to mention a separate game (sharing some assets) is included on the disk in the form of Metal Gear Online. Even the (cancelled due to abysmal failure of the 360 version) NBA 2007 game for PS3 managed to cram 19 GB in when I was working for Electronic Arts. Even without many cutscenes (MGS is not known for using a lot of pre-rendered footage, mainly in-game cutscenes), I can imagine the audio, graphics, and so forth filling that space.

3> Japan. Japan doesn't like the 360. Metal Gear Solid is a very Japanese game made by a very Japanese man. Current 360 sales in the home country of Metal Gear: 600,000 total, even the year-younger PS3 is past 2 million there, and this game has been a much-awaited system seller in all regions (hence the impending replacement of the Motorstorm bundle with a new Metal Gear Solid bundle PS3 console).

and last I can think of for now

4> Why lie about something coming out when they could make money. It's not going to come out on 360, that's why. Kojima says so. Konami's staff say so. Sony says so. I'm pretty sure I heard the Pope say so although my latin is rusty.

The game will sell just fine on it's one (1) console home, especially since the PS3 has been outselling the 360 since the beginning of the year consistently (Microsoft claims there is a shortage. I have never seen a store without a huge pile of available 360s).

 

[LLCoolT]

Okay, only one reason is needed: In the new trailer, Snake controls the Metal Gear Mk. II... WITH A PS3 CONTROLLER! So yeah.

 

[tiredinnuendo]

Are people actually still arguing that the game will be a PS3 exclusive? Who, exactly, are you arguing against? This question got answered back somewhere around post number 3. Now we're talking about game data size and the layout of a BluRay disc. Keep up.

- J

 

[JakubK666]

I'm pretty sure I heard the Pope say so although my latin is rusty.

The current Pope is actually German.If it was John Paul II then I could probably understand him.Even though he usually talked about being good,no sex in Heaven and stuff like that.

 

[hyperdrachen]

Just wanted to put my two cents in on the giant game thing. Unless MGS4 turns out to be 150hours of actual unique content not running back and fourth through the same 10 areas to find different people to sneak up on and/or shoot, I am not buying anything over 20gigs and even that will be a tough swallow. Even the redundant data thing sounds unlikely.

I'm a mere learning programmer, but I have never seen a programming method where you call on data from specific part of the disc. I presume its possible but question it being faster, and further question it speeding load time up enough to justify programming it that way and taking up more disc space. Cut scenes of old, stored as a video file, take up lots of disc space because your literally storing the data for every pixel of every frame of the scene. However using the game engine to record cut scenes requires far less disc space, very little in fact, (see halo3 multiplayer replays). I heavily doubt MGS is using the traditional method, especially since, as I remember, most of MGS2's cut scenes were just scripted game engine events.

Still I could buy that the between the textures and audio that it is far too big for a DVD. For me personally Blue-Ray can burn in hell with HD-DVD, Id gladly use multiple discs to pull $100 off the cost of my hardware. I doubt we Xbox owners are going to see MGS4. Space is likely an issue and I'm sure sony is sinking alot of cash into holding exclusive rights on such a high profile game.

PS - What makes a guy "used to be working for EA". Did they can you for sinking your Sony Flag into their 360 test machines? NBA 07 took 19gigs huh, with what 5 layer textures where only the first 2 are visible? And on the audio thing, I have 40hours of music on my HD taking uo about 2.7gigs, you think MGS4 has anywhere near 40hours of discrete audio files, whats the 5.1 data good for on voice?

 

[dekkarax]

kay serra serra
just wait to see what happens, I doubt it will come out for the 360 though, but you never know.

 

[Hindsight]

I hate to say it, but I am scared for Metal Gear 4. I have tried to enjoy 3, to the point where I play it now on the PS3 just trying to get it over with before 4 is released. The original Metal Gear was a game that made me tear up, it made me really care, to the point where like most of you I imagine, we would replay that torture section to make sure that nothing bad would happen to Meryl, stealth chip be damned.

Metal Gear 2 was a good game, but a bad sequel. The boat section, as most say, was awesome, we got to be Snake in better graphics, like we wanted, and then the Raiden section was good, but a departure to what we were looking for. There were silly mental robot brain washed codec messages, and in-jokes like Snake's headband giving him unlimited ammo.

I think I played the first Acid, but I sold my PSP early on, something I regret now wanting to play Crisis Core, but whatever. It was a different take on the series. Much like how everyone is looking for a good sequel to Final Fantasy VII (which I hope Crisis Core is, in prequel form), we're looking for that honest sequel to the "tactical espionage action" that we had in Metal Gear 1. Snake Eater is weird, all this percentage based camo stuff, I just don't personally enjoy it. I want to hide behind a crate, in a box, or under a pallet, and sneak out onto a guy, and shank him.

Whats the deal with this guy and his bald monkey? Why is Meryl a *****? Where is Naomi? Are they so offended that we didn't like Raiden that they gave him the awesome Ninja suit so we'd like him now? Where the hell did Snake get a Metal Gear Rex? Is there even a new Metal Gear nuclear delivery device in this game, or is it all about the PMCs? Is this game just a political commentary on anti-bush/war for oil war theories?

On the whole 360 thing. I may get one. I really wanted to play Mass Effect. Maybe because of all the hype, maybe because I loved KOTOR. I don't think I know why exactly, but I came close to buying an Elite for that one, but there just isn't anything else coming out for the 360 (Mass Effect for the PC soon) to make me want to drop a fiver for one game. I don't like sports games, I have a personal relationship with the Producer of Fable, and don't much care for his vision of RPing. Oblivion is out on PS3 (and looks better imo), and I've never liked Microsoft's controllers.

I think that the size of a Blu-Ray disc is a big deal, and if games are going to approach 50 gigs then Microsofts "its all about digital distribution" theory will go out the window, and the PS3 will be the only system capable of playing these huge long games, and I love huge long... uhm.... games.

I own a Wii and a PS3, and when a reason to buy an Xbox comes out, something with a plot, with some emotion, I'll probably get one. Now I just hope MGS4 is a return to the original, and not another disapointment of a departure, especially as I was dumb and pre-ordered the Limited Edition. I must hate money.

 

[PMantix]

Kojima had said that he wanted the best quality possible and so was not compressing images and audio. I don't see what is so unbelievable about that.. an uncompressed image file can be pretty large compared to a jpeg or whatever. Crysis looks good, but if you get close enough to any object you can still see the images have been compressed. Same for Oblivion. There are mods that make the textures a lot crisper by simply putting in a more detailed, less compressed, image. It's not too hard to imagine a lot of uncompressed textures taking up a huge amount of space..

And besides, why would they lie about using 50gigs? The whole reason it was brought up was to explain why there won't be multiple languages on the disc.. because they were basically using up the whole disc already. It's not like it would be any extra work to include the extra audio.. the english and japanese audio has to exist for it's respective region anyway. So why would they lie? Kojima has done a good job keeping up with the fans.. there's no reason they couldn't, and wouldn't, put in the extra features unless they have run out of available space.

 

[Hindsight]

Crysis looks good, but if you get close enough to any object you can still see the images have been compressed. Same for Oblivion.

Yea, I think the Crysis argument was a poor one. The game is complex, and has massive math and polygons, that makes it hard to run, not necessarily big. I could make a game with huge specs, give it unreasonably dense environments and polygons to choke a donkey. It could still fit on a single disk.

Two different issues, processor dependency and size.

 

[SotheVolke]

We Can Dream. I Really Hope So!!!

 

[Hindsight]

In plot based games, size is everything. Do we have an idea on the length of the game? Or for that matter the un-skippable cutscene to actual button pressing time ratio?

 

[m_jim]

I fail to see why any party concerned would choose that to be excited over. While it is impressive, it seems that that would be a random thing to brag about. I could understand something like "Over 50 hours playtime" or "Most realistic lighting" or "life-like cutscenes" but bragging about the size?

I imagine that they are bragging about size for the same reason a lot of guys do: to hopefully get someone curious who wants to see what all the fuss is about. When people hear "OMG, 50 gigs isn't going to be enough... this must be teh greetest gaem evar!!1!", it's going to get people talking and having conversations... well, like this. And that, my friend, is what viral marketing is all about.

 

[Programmed_For_Damage]

Being someone who is passionate about his art I can totally understand the reason for unskippable cutscenes. If I put that amount of effort and passion into something I was doing I guess I'd be semi-pissed off if people skipped it. But that is all to do with ego and I think Hideo (and he is DEFINATELY not the alone in this) is being ultra conceited if he thinks that everyone who buys the game wants to lose hours of their lives listening to what I've found in the past to be overly long-winded diatribe. Yes it's intriguing, and often very socially relevant diatribe and it is a defining feature of the series; however if I already understand what's going on please let me get on with the job at hand. The tension, action and stealth of the MGS games are what keeps me coming back to them and I don't appreciate having it broken so some character can camp it up for 10 minutes and say what could have been said in a third of the time before I get to bust their head in. I much, much, much prefer it when the game has the characters talking to you while the action is going on. Maybe that's why I enjoy Splinter Cell more, but each to their own.

Big name developers, god bless them, have a habit of letting their egos get the better of them (Peter Molyneux's famous planting a seed comment for the original Fable) and I hope for MGS4 Kojima-san has kept his in check or I'm going to need an expresso machine in my room while playing it.

 

[Mr Scott]

Calm down everyone! The overwhelming evidence points to the idea that MGS4 will be a PS3 exclusive, and it will be the dog's bullocks!

 

[Fire Daemon]

A possible reason that Kojima is claiming that MGS4 takes up a silly amount of disc space is that due to BluRay being prolifically slow, some developers repeat the same game data in different parts of the disc so the laser doesn't have to move as much (as doing so would makes load times even slower).

Off-topic, but I have to say how interesting that was. Seriously, no sarcasm (it can be hard to tell online) that's a really interesting fact.

- J

That is true. The fact that the Blue Ray is so slow and that developers have to put in more information so the laser wont have to travel so far removes any advantage of space.

If you look at any PS3 disk versus an Xbox 360 disk then you will find they have much more information on them despite just being simple ports of one another.

Honestly though, who the hell would expect a game to take up 49 gigabytes of space. Thats a hell of a lot of music.

Anywho, back on topic. I am a bit dissapointed that Metal gearSolid 4 wont be coming out on the Xbox 360 but I suppose I have some other great games soon to be released that will keep my attention.

 

[Eagle Est1986]

Just in case nobody brought it up yet, there have already been at least two games that are released on multiple discs for the 360. Capacity is not the issue at all.

So you propose that the game is played over 5 discs? Imagine trying to speed through the game, you'd have to change disc every hour and a half of gameplay, I can't see that happening really....