Microsoft says Hardcore gamers have been wrong for 10 years

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

What he says is fair enough and it is no less stubborn than writing something off without trying it or giving it a go. Yes, hardcore gamers have made mistakes. Last I checked, gamers are human beings and thus fully capable of doing such things. Also, last time I checked, countering an argument did not constitute an insult. I think he was being as sassy and arrogant as a large percentage of forum posting hardcores tend to be. The amount of extremism in such places far outdoes the possible snappiness of this man's rebuttle. And any quick scan of profiles will show that hardcores DO go pretty far (low?) to up their Gamerscores. I am sure he's not saying that they would buy Kinect SOLELY for the acheivements. I assume the man isn't an idiot. However, those gamers might have other reasons to buy into it, for themselves or for others, and I am sure they'll partake in it. They might even have fun, despite themselves.

couldn't have said it better myself.

so this.

 

[FightThePower]

This is hilarious. Apparently every single hardcore gamer has identical opinions according to this fuckpipe.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

haha jesus, its pretty funny to see who gets butt hurt over this...

you are not required to buy anything from them. ever. so chill out.

 

[sephiroth1991]

All i can say to people who are considering it now cos of this is

 

[Miumaru]

Well, I am not one of those wrong Hardcore gamers as I either never said, or never betrayed what I said.

Also I have some faith in Kinect, but they have to actually use it right. Molyneux seems like the guy in the lead.

 

[Au Naturel.]

"I have one thing to say to the hardcore gamer who says Kinect has nothing for them," said Toulouse while discussing concerns about Kinect on Major Nelson's latest podcast. "Those games will have achievements, so don't tell me you're not going to play at least some of them, you hardcore gamers out there. I know you will."

Clutching at straws. Thin, tiny straws. Promise interesting games you moron.

No one wants it because there's no games for it to appeal to us; the Wii was a success because of casual/first-time gamers. I can't count the amount of people like myself that bought a Wii and then had it collect dust for months on end.

I'll be happy when this whole motion control fad is over with.

Dust off your Wii and go play the No More Heroes series damn you. And while you're at it, go play MadWorld too.

 

[Leftylol]

All "hardcore gamers" have a hivemind do they? Yet we squabble all the time about genres etc.

I think Toulouse's statement is the icing on the cake for Kinetics success, sugar free, dust flavoured delicious icing.

 

[Woodsey]

"I have one thing to say to the hardcore gamer who says Kinect has nothing for them," said Toulouse while discussing concerns about Kinect on Major Nelson's latest podcast. "Those games will have achievements, so don't tell me you're not going to play at least some of them, you hardcore gamers out there. I know you will."

Clutching at straws. Thin, tiny straws. Promise interesting games you moron.

No one wants it because there's no games for it to appeal to us; the Wii was a success because of casual/first-time gamers. I can't count the amount of people like myself that bought a Wii and then had it collect dust for months on end.

I'll be happy when this whole motion control fad is over with.

Dust off your Wii and go play the No More Heroes series damn you. And while you're at it, go play MadWorld too.

I sold it yonks ago.

And didn't Madworld sell terribly (despite critical acclaim)? Like I said, the Wii is the casual gamer's domain and unless they pull things around for us fast I don't think Natal's ever going to really apply to us either.

 

[pretentiousname01]

Still though, on a slightly subjective note, that bit where they say that the only reason the "hardcore" will play these games is because of achievements is just depressing.

Doesn't exactly project confidence in the quality of the products, does it?

this. very much this.

 

[cornmancer]

Okay, we may not be the best predictors, but we're saying what we think we will enjoy. Not what the world will enjoy, but what we think we will enjoy.

 

[Woodsey]

"I have one thing to say to the hardcore gamer who says Kinect has nothing for them," said Toulouse while discussing concerns about Kinect on Major Nelson's latest podcast. "Those games will have achievements, so don't tell me you're not going to play at least some of them, you hardcore gamers out there. I know you will."

Clutching at straws. Thin, tiny straws. Promise interesting games you moron.

No one wants it because there's no games for it to appeal to us; the Wii was a success because of casual/first-time gamers. I can't count the amount of people like myself that bought a Wii and then had it collect dust for months on end.

I'll be happy when this whole motion control fad is over with.

Dust off your Wii and go play the No More Heroes series damn you. And while you're at it, go play MadWorld too.

I sold it yonks ago.

And didn't Madworld sell terribly (despite critical acclaim)? Like I said, the Wii is the casual gamer's domain and unless they pull things around for us fast I don't think Natal's ever going to really apply to us either.

You can only really say that if you completely ignore any games that come out for it. Most people who complain about it WILL buy it, thats they way it is. Lots of terrible games sell really well and lots of good games sell terribly so thats a poor judgement of quality.

Although the "hardcore" gamer actually doesnt exist its hard to disagree with what this guy is saying. Then again who really gives a shit if 2% of the gamer population doesnt think kinect will be a success.

I never said how a game sells is a judgement of it's quality, and it's a little more than 2% of the gamer population.

In fact, I haven't seen one person on here or on other sites like this who's interested in it - and the guy's that do Feedback over at X-Play have almost totally denounced Kinect and Move.

 

[Meggiepants]

Still though, on a slightly subjective note, that bit where they say that the only reason the "hardcore" will play these games is because of achievements is just depressing.

Doesn't exactly project confidence in the quality of the products, does it?

Amen, brother.

"We know our games suck, so we'll make easy achievements for them to bait you into playing them."

OT: Okay, first of all, again I want to say I hate the term hardcore gamer. So, instead, I will use the more accurate term for myself, longterm gamer.

And now to the arguments Toulouse uses. I have no doubt gamers have been wrong about what will sell in the past, but some of his arguments seem a bit bastardized. I remember some of these arguments, but they didn't exactly play out the way he seems to indicate. He's oversimplifying a more complex point in order to make it fit his argument. So one by one, shall we?

• 
  [li]"Shipping a console with an Ethernet port? Oh, it'll never succeed."
  I can't recall ever hearing this as being a bad thing. Likely, what he's referring to, is the fact that the 360 only had and Ethernet port and did not have built in WiFi, which both the Wii and the PS3 had. I can't imagine why anyone would complain about the addition of any extra feature as simple as this one. The lack of a feature, now there's real fanboy rage bait.
  
  I suppose it's possible that he's referring to early hardcore PC users who said online multiplayer would never take off on any console so why are they bothering with an ethernet port at all. But here, he would be taking an argument by fanboys and applying it to gamers across the board. Fanboys, as we all know, often will make crazy statements that do not represent the gamer community as a whole.
  [/li]
  [li]"Paying for multiplayer? Oh no, that's not good."
  And it wasn't. And it still isn't. As far as I remember, all my gamer buddies and I complained about having to pay. We didn't say we wouldn't, well most of us. A few might have said that, but they knew they were lying. Just like Microsoft, gamers have their own PR machine. Ours is just a viral marketing campaign. Rather than a prediction, this should be considered lobbying.
  
  No one wants to pay for something they might not have to. The gamers I knew, looked at the pay to play model as unnecessary, particularly when companies like Sony and Nintendo weren't charging. We weren't predicting it would fail, we were hoping to game for free. Thus, the bitching about how awful pay to play is.[/li]
  
  [li]"I don't like avatars; I won't buy anything that goes to my avatar."
  Let's take this in two pieces. I don't like avatars first. I don't recall people saying they didn't like avatars. I do remember people bitching about the fact that the only thing they were getting for paying for XBL "was a stupid avatar." I don't think I ever heard anyone say, "dude, I am so not getting XBL because they have tainted the service with avatars."
  
  Second part. Yes. This is actually an argument I heard. The first legitimate one here. I, along with all of my friends, thought the buying of crap for our avatars was stupid and would fail. Hell, I still think it's stupid. But I also bought a t-shirt and a toy plane for my avatar. I find that a tad shameful, that I have purchased virtual things for my virtual me. I can try to defend this by saying that my average expenditure for these items is roughly $1 a year, but it's a weak defense.
  
  Apparently, we all forgot that looking cool, even in a virtual space, was important enough to shell out a few bucks for.[/li]
  
  [li]"The Wii... I mean no offence hardcore gamers, you've kinda been wrong a lot for the past ten years."
  Okay, the Wii. I never predicted the downfall of the Wii. In fact, when I first saw the system, I was kind of excited about it. I wasn't the only one. I know many gamers who waited in lines to get the Wii.
  
  In fact, I think Microsoft is turning this argument around here. I believe it is Microsoft who said motion control was gimmicky. That hardcore gamers would scoff at the system. Microsoft, fueling the derision of their own fanboys and fanning the flames here, not gamers as a whole.
  
  Now, I did eventually realize the Wii was not really for me. Which is why I will not be buying the Kinect when it comes out. I jumped on the Wii bandwagon, and was let down. I'm not doing that shit again.
  
  So If I say I'm not buying the Kinect, it isn't because I think it will fail, it's because I have already tried Kinect. It was called the Wii. And I didn't like it. So no, I won't be trying it again, unless Microsoft shows me something other than achievements to lure me in.[/li]

I think the real problem with this guy, is that he's dismissive of the gamer opinion, because they are looking at the Wii market research. The Wii has proven successful without the support of these so called hardcore gamers. So they are trying to distance the Kinect from the gamers that look on it unfavorably, because they know the people who are going to make it successful, are the same people who look at Kinect bowling and think it's the greatest thing ever.

So he isn't so much insulting these hardcore gamers, as he is stating that they will ignore them because this product isn't for them.

 

[ImprovizoR]

And Microsoft have been wrong for a lot longer than that. To quote Bill Gates: "640K is more memory than anyone will ever need"

 

[Something Amyss]

So a smart idea to get more money is to alienate your primary fanbase with casual games instead of with new halos or some other violent games.

I've heard that "alienating your fanbase" argument before.

Which kind of jives with the point here about hardcore gamers.

 

[KaiRai]

...Is this really news? It's more just some guy going "NER! I'm right! You're wrong!"

Anyway Microsoft, it's taken you nigh on 20 years to develop a system that can handle 2 programs being open simultaneously. Don't talk to me about wrong, you hypocrits.

 

[ParkourMcGhee]

I think the age of hardcore gamers is dying, and the age of casual/kid-with-money is starting. Oh well.

I thought that started with the PlayStation 2? No, wait, it was the PlayStation 1. Nope, sorry, it was the NES.

On a more serious point: what kind of deluded fool buys games just to increase their achievement count? Seriously.

Dunno but one of my friends rented games for that exact purpose - hell he even rented one that gave you 1000 achievement points for putting the DVD into your Xbox

 

[Lightslei]

...Is this really news? It's more just some guy going "NER! I'm right! You're wrong!"

Anyway Microsoft, it's taken you nigh on 20 years to develop a system that can handle 2 programs being open simultaneously. Don't talk to me about wrong, you hypocrits.

You bought a premade computer didn't you? >.<. Build your own and you don't have these problems.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

trends and successes "for the past ten years"

He seems to have confused trends and success with what is actually good. Usually something being good and successful go hand in hand but this is not always the case. Same as something shit can become successful if marketed right so I have to heavily disagree with him. I think it is up to us to decide what is for us. Also I never heard anyone dismiss a console with an Ethernet port just saying.

The only reason people pay for multiplayer is because they have no choice and have been conditioned to the fact that it makes things better and this is the way it always has been and will be. The day I pay for multiplayer is the day I become as rich as Bill Gates and use money as toilet paper or have something horribly go wrong with my higher brain functions. Also Avatars are stupid but that is why people like them as they like to either make something really stupid or make one in their own image. As for people buying stuff for their Avatars there are such things as idiots and compulsive shoppers. The Wii. Do I really have to get into the Wii. Sure it has good hardware sales but time and time again it just keeps showing below par software sales and lack of third party support which is killing the Wii as a valid game console. There is just so much crap on it that it is hard to find a gem of a game on it. I could go on ripping out the Wii and how it failed where it could of succeeded but the lack of software sales and thrid party support and the fact that people from Nintendo have said it dying due to these make his last point horribly wrong.

 

[Lazy Kitty]

http://www.gamerzines.com/xbox-360/news/hardcore-gamers-wrong-10-years.html

"I have one thing to say to the hardcore gamer who says Kinect has nothing for them," said Toulouse while discussing concerns about Kinect on Major Nelson's latest podcast. "Those games will have achievements, so don't tell me you're not going to play at least some of them, you hardcore gamers out there. I know you will."

So hardcore gaming is all about the achievements?
I thought it was about th k/d rate and the high-scores...
Seems I was wrong.