Miss USA Controversy

[Infiniteloop]

How is evolution and God mutually exclusive? It's not.

 

[Cliff_m85]

How is evolution and God mutually exclusive? It's not.

Evolution can be observed and tested, God cannot. One is something that obviously exists, and God is something that most likely doesn't. Evolution was written about by a man who understood science and put factual evidence into his book, God was written about by many men who continuously made scientific mistakes and historic lies into their book with a fear-based belief system.

 

[Dogmeat T Dingo]

I'd just like to say, and this is coming from a gay person who fights for equal rights, that I truly appreciate the fact that she stood up for her opinions. I for one hate political correctness and the way we tiptoe over things these days, people need to man up and realize that you don't have a right to not be offended by another persons beliefs.

Obviously I disagree with her, in fact I think her opinion is ridiculous; maintaining the status quo no matter how fundamentally broken it is causes a lot of the problems and suffering in this world. But she has a right to tell it how she sees it, just like I do. How are we supposed to have an open and thorough exchange of ideas when an opponent is muffled and censored because they're not on the the trendy side?

That judge had no right to let his personal opinions compromise his neutrality.

 

[Sphinx86]

Marriage was set up for the family of a young girl to be married against her own choices to a man of higher financial or political power. Most marriages in Roman times consisted of girls being married and bedded at 12 years old.


So why are you trying to ruin traditional marriage?

Ok not entirely sure what you're meaning here.

Marrying off 12yo to rich old lecherous bastards is messed up, so I'm going to assume that your next line is meant to be sarcastic, which is stupid, seeing as sarcasm is based in tone of voice, which isn't present in textual forums.

Either that or you're saying marrying 12yo is right and that gay marriage is wrong. Which in most (all??) countries make you a pedophile and in most western countries are about to get flamed by all those (aggressively) in support of gay marriage.

Clarifying would be good.

I'm stating that Traditional Marriage has been changed multiple times. The argument of gay people 'changing' Trad marriage is ridiculous because it's already been changed about 50 times. If we went back to traditional marriage, we'd have to support pedophilia. That's why I snicker when I hear how important it is to 'save Traditional Marriage'.

I'm pro-gay marriage because anyone should be able to get married as long as they are of age and consenting.

I never made any argument saying that we shouldn't change Traditional Marriage, I never used those words at all. I support two people that want to prove their love for one another by bonding for life. I'm also defending her against those people who are flaming on because she doesn't agree with it. My comment about gay people wanting to get married was used just to strengthen my argument against those people who said she was brainless for her 'its how i was brought up' comment.

 

[Sphinx86]

I'd just like to say, and this is coming from a gay person who fights for equal rights, that I truly appreciate the fact that she stood up for her opinions. I for one hate political correctness and the way we tiptoe over things these days, people need to man up and realize that you don't have a right to not be offended by another persons beliefs.

Obviously I disagree with her, in fact I think her opinion is ridiculous; maintaining the status quo no matter how fundamentally broken it is causes a lot of the problems and suffering in this world. But she has a right to tell it how she sees it, just like I do. How are we supposed to have an open and thorough exchange of ideas when an opponent is muffled and censored because they're not on the the trendy side?

That judge had no right to let his personal opinions compromise his neutrality.

Respecting someone else's differing opinion, if only more people in the world thought like you there'd be less wars.
Its also great to see someone from inside the PC bubble say its all crap.
To you I doff my hat
*doff*

 

[DeadAccountMoveAlong]

Perez Hilton is a douche, Miss California was hideous, and I don't think the answer cost her the competition. However, though I am for gay marriage, she said the truth which is better than the usual manufactured lines that come from the competition.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

I think a beauty pagent (even the country's biggest) should just be that. Their opinions should be as unimportant to the contest as they are in life.

Interesting note - Miss USA isn't technically considered a beauty pagent, as the contestants are judged on a combination of scores - audience response (usually with regards to the aformentioned beauty), the personal interview, the platform they bring (i.e. what they will do if they win), the talent portion etc. Apparently, it's considered a beauty pagent primarily because the only part of the contest people watch is the swimsuit and talent portions.

Also, with regards to the debate regarding homosexual marriage: Technically, marriage in the traditional sense is a religious affair, meaning the customs are dictated by a person's faith. While some religions take the position that "we don't care", the general consensus among those who classify themselves as "fundamentalists" is that their religion is against the concept altogether. As such, if a religion wants to ban gay marriage, I'm perfectly happy with that.

That said, because there are a number of legal rights and benefits granted through marriage, it seems that to deny a couple the same options is patently unfair. If one cannot find a church that will deem such a union as sacred in the eyes of their particular god, I see no reason why a courthouse cannot issue a certificate of union that grants the same rights and privledges of a traditional marriage. They don't even need to call it a marriage license, a civil union would work just fine and keep god and his followers out of the mess altogether.

Edit - I have just been informed by contestant friend that her circuit is "Miss America", and therefore all the information I posted may in fact be incorrect. Still, I suspect if there are questions being asked, character, poise and tact are probably at least a part of the contest. That said, Miss USA does state that it started in California as a "Bathing Beauty" contest, indicating that the primary goal is to select the most attractive person.

 

[Sphinx86]

Ok Cheese your not understanding what I'm trying to say and your beginning to sound as blinded as those people who are aggressively against gay rights.

Everyone who says "thats how I was raised" makes her an idiot really don't understand human nature. Our parents views heavily influence our own and some we never can shake, no matter how intelligent a person is.

While that may be true in *some* cases, it is not *necessarily* true in this case.

What makes you think that's the case here?

There is no evidence to support that it is the case, but there is no evidence to support that it isn't either.

Oh, I think there's plenty of evidence to support it here. Mainly, the fact that she references the way she was raised as it it were a legitimate reason to believe what she believes, not just an 'influential' one. She doesn't seem very concerned with her inability to shake that influence, does she?

Her belief that marriage should be between a man and a woman came from her being raised that way, so it is the reason for her belief. If nothing has caused her to try and re-evaluate that belief ie having a gay friend then there has been no reason to question that belief. It doesn't make her stupid. or worthy of your hate.

Marriage was set up as a religious bonding, why do gay people want to get married?

Because plenty of gay people are religious? Shit, gay people want to be bishops, let alone get married:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/new_hampshire/articles/2003/11/03/robinson_elevated_as_first_gay_bishop/

Yes, but most religions want nothing to do with them.

So? Because religion was set up as a religious bonding, and most religions don't want gay people, gay people shouldn't want to get married? That makes no sense.

Removing the rest of my quote just so you can make succinct comeback and make me look stupid is just petty, no further response from me.

Just to make things clear I am straight, I am not against homosexuality, but I am against homosexuals (or in fact anybody ie religious people/atheists/Gamers/Non-Gamers) chucking hissy fits over someones private views.

Um, no one entered into her house to question her--she entered a competition where I'm guessing people are judged in part on their private views. I don't know much about this pageant, but was this the only question they asked that inquired about the private views of the contestants or something where she was subjected to unequal treatment?

I haven't seen the show or a transcript so it's quite possible that every contestant was asked the same question and thus no it wasn't unfair in that regard. But this is a competition based around attractiveness and talent not what side of a very controversial argument your on.

Are you sure? There's no 'character' element involved in this competition?

Are you saying that her character is at fault just because she disagrees with your opinion?? Now you do sound like those right-wing religious nuts who virulently spout off about homosexuality.

If anything she should have gained points for standing by her views in a public forum, knowing that what she was going to say would generate heat for her.

She should get no points *and no attention* because she stated her views knowing they'd put her in a win/win situation. If she wins, she's the winner. If she doesn't, she's the poster girl for people against gay marriage who can use her as a pretty blonde martyr to the cause in a bikini.

Either way, she's got recognition.

So now your saying there is no way she said those things because she actually believes them and wants to stand by her beliefs? Your saying shes stupid for having those opinions but at the same time saying shes smart enough to - on the spot mind you - come up with the master win/win plan?

I have no intention of starting a flame war with you, which is where your attitude (and I admit some of my responses in this post) seem to be leading this.

Just to set the record straight:

I AM for gay rights, i think there is too much hate in the world and any attempt at people to find happiness and love can only do good for the world.

I understand that not everybody will feel the same way, but I am not going sit there and flame at them just because they disagree with this opinion.

I AM NOT for people flaming or otherwise trying to press their point of view onto other people, from either side. Reasoned argument with acceptance: Yes, close minded hate session: No

I WILL come to the defense of anyone who doesn't try to force their beliefs on others, but is being targeted by those who disagree.

As I said I have no intention of starting a flame war, so if you reply to this with anything other than reasoned arguments free of negative emotions I'm just going to ignore you so you can make a fool of yourself.

To anyone open minded enough to have an opinion but understand that not everyone need share it, to you I give my congratulations and goodwill.

 

[US Crash Fire]

it seems like a setup. if you ask someones opinion, dont get mad when you hear their honest opinion! she was asked what she believed and she answered honestly. just because its not what a gay judge wanted to hear doesnt make it wrong.

 

[sirdanrhodes]

Everyone involved in the Miss USA contest is a vein shallow bastard. Well, the majority are.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

it seems like a setup. if you ask someones opinion, dont get mad when you hear their honest opinion! she was asked what she believed and she answered honestly. just because its not what a gay judge wanted to hear doesnt make it wrong.

It is certainly a loaded question because there is no answer that would satisfy everybody. That said, one can still approach a contentious issue with tact, which the contestet in question failed to do. Giving a volitile opinion and backing it by stating it was how you are raised indicates she never actually considered the problem on its own merit and instead relied on parental programming to answer for her.

 

[Mrsoupcup]

I think she was stating how she was raised and people are going to blow this way out of poportion. Still in todays society, people should be more open minded.

 

[Inco]

Everyone who says "thats how I was raised" makes her an idiot really don't understand human nature. Our parents views heavily influence our own and some we never can shake, no matter how intelligent a person is.

They asked her a question and she gave them her opinion, she wasn't putting herself out there making her views heard, they asked her.
She never said she's against homosexuality or that all gays should die and go to hell or something equally flame worthy, she just stated she believes that MARRIAGE should be between a man and a woman.
Marriage was set up as a religious bonding, why do gay people want to get married? Cos they still have this belief from their parents that you marry the person you love and that marriage bonds you, which leads back to my first point that parental POV influence well after childhood.

Just to make things clear I am straight, I am not against homosexuality, but I am against homosexuals (or in fact anybody ie religious people/atheists/Gamers/Non-Gamers) chucking hissy fits over someones private views. You want people to accept your way of life, fine, but accept that other people will have their (possibly differing) way of life. As long as nobody is trying to force someone around to their thinking there shouldn't be a problem. Not that I expect it will ever happen that way, but hey we can hope.

This guy saved me a lot of typing, thank you. Exact same views, I get irritated at religious people who try to convert me through fear and instead do the opposite (just to add).

 

[US Crash Fire]

it seems like a setup. if you ask someones opinion, dont get mad when you hear their honest opinion! she was asked what she believed and she answered honestly. just because its not what a gay judge wanted to hear doesnt make it wrong.

It is certainly a loaded question because there is no answer that would satisfy everybody. That said, one can still approach a contentious issue with tact, which the contestet in question failed to do. Giving a volitile opinion and backing it by stating it was how you are raised indicates she never actually considered the problem on its own merit and instead relied on parental programming to answer for her.

true but the fact that she said that in the first place denotes that she agrees with it to some degree. and that she mentioned it was how she was brought up shows that she takes pride in how she was raised. even tho it was not PC it was ow she felt. while i dont agree with her i respect that she stood by her own beleifs in the face of discrimination.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

it seems like a setup. if you ask someones opinion, dont get mad when you hear their honest opinion! she was asked what she believed and she answered honestly. just because its not what a gay judge wanted to hear doesnt make it wrong.

It is certainly a loaded question because there is no answer that would satisfy everybody. That said, one can still approach a contentious issue with tact, which the contestet in question failed to do. Giving a volitile opinion and backing it by stating it was how you are raised indicates she never actually considered the problem on its own merit and instead relied on parental programming to answer for her.

true but the fact that she said that in the first place denotes that she agrees with it to some degree. and that she mentioned it was how she was brought up shows that she takes pride in how she was raised. even tho it was not PC it was ow she felt. while i dont agree with her i respect that she stood by her own beleifs in the face of discrimination.

I do not take issue with her beliefs, but simply her lack of tact when addressing a contentious issue. That she stuck with her guns was commendable in some respects, had she done so with tact would have been laudable.

Like I said, given the audience of such shows, I suspect it won't really affect much in the long run anyhow. If she loses it won't be because of what she said (though it might be because of what people say about what she said, if that makes any sense).

 

[Samurai Goomba]

Smells like a setup question to me. You can't ask for somebody's opinion and then be mad that they gave you what you asked for. Seems strange to ask such a controversial question in a beauty contest. How dare they try to bring deep discussion into our shallow contest where a person's worth is decided by something they have no control over (looks)!

Her opinion on a controversial issue shouldn't affect the judges votes. They're supposed to be impartial, and having an openly gay judge in the room when you ask "what is your stance on gay marriage" to a contestant just screams Conflict of Interests. It's like pointing a gun in somebody's face and asking "what is your stance on the Right to Bear Arms?"

Besides, who really gives a rip about her opinion, anyway? Has her individual stance on gay marriage ever kept any gay person from getting married? This is a majority rule system we have here, and one person just doesn't matter. She doesn't matter. She's nobody. In a few days probably everyone here will have forgotten her. She's just a cog in the machine. She's just...

Oh, sorry there, just finished watching Fight Club. Anyway, my point is that her opinion on gay marriage shouldn't have been taken into account, because it's totally irrelevant in a beauty contest. Same goes for every other girl that was asked that question.

Spoiler

 

[traceur_]

Christ this is bullshit, what's so bad about what she said? She wasn't attacking homosexuality, she just said she thought that marriage should be between a man and a woman, that's her opinion, it doesn't hurt anyone and is entirely irrelevant. It's crap that there is a "personality" part of the contest, the key word is "beauty" and that is on the outside, ok I'm not one of those guys who would date an extremely hot chick even if she was a female hitler but "beauty" isn't the word to use, ok I'm arguing semantics but yeh. Anyway, isn't honesty considered more "beautiful" than having politically correct views? Obviously there is less chance of finding truth in the majority of the answers to these personality questions than there is of me winning the lottery, especially when this is what happens when you give an unpopular answer.