MovieBob's thoughts on the ME3 ending controversy

[zinho73]

The problem is that, like many journalists, Movie Bob is working with the premise that people are demanding that the endings must be erased and replaced by another thing completely different.

I'm surprised how this intelligent people simply forget the notion of what interactive media means. You can add to it and transform it without butchering - it is built this way, specially in this DLC era. For all we know the end was deliberated vague to allow DLC (which is not very artistic to begin with).

Also, saying that a thing is either a product or art is much more hurting to the argument that games are art than a movement that responds passionately to the medium.

Art causes reaction. In this case, the reaction was anger and frustration. If this is not the result expected by the artist, he is more than welcome to revise his work - because it is possible and it has been done before.

Also see:
- False advertising. For God's sake, just read Casey Hudson's statements, play the game and tell me with a straight face that there's nothing really wrong with it.
- Jessica Chobot, lame photoshop edits, reused assets and advertising DLC in this work of art.
- CD Project changed parts of the first Witcher responding to criticisms and to better adapt the product to the US public.
- Movie pre-screenings that have their ending changed because of the audience reaction.
- Fallout 3
- Bioware changed a book because of the same reasons: plot holes, lack of internal logic and lore inconsistencies. Games changing is not new - but this I've never heard about and nobody cried "Artistic Integrity" like you guys are doing now.

To be honest the whole thing just looks so dramatic because the media brought this whole artistic integrity issue with the same fanboy rage that they were criticizing in the first place.

Bioware case is a perfect storm of bad decisions and bad PR, and they are in a terrible situation because they put themselves in it. It will be impossible to them to please everyone but inaction will probably hurt them even more.

They treated their art as a product, using every little trick on the book to make us buy it, going so far as to promise things that are exactly the opposite of what was presented - you cannot blame people to treat their art as product as well.

 

[Lord_Gremlin]

The problem with ME3 is that it's actually that bad already. It's not art. ME3 is a shitty consumer product. And is treated as one.

See, this is the bit that bugs me. Did you actually play Mass Effect 3? The gameplay is absolutely excellent; they've polished all the aspects of it a mirror shine. The story develops according to the choices you make and the game ties up the threads of the geth and quarians, the krogan and turians, the involvement of cerberus and countless other things.

Of course, it could just be your honest opinion that it's still a bad game, and that would be perfectly valid, but my money is on that you are completely ignoring the quality of the rest of the game in favour of being mad at Bioware for the ending.

Heck, you wouldn't be so upset in the first place if you weren't emotionally invested in the series to begin with, which indicates you didn't think it was that dreadful a product. After all, if you get a bucketful of shit, you're not going to be disappointed when the bottom of the bucket is slightly darker brown than the rest.

Sorry, I should have clarified that my post relates to ME3 ending, not the whole ME3 game. Although I would also argue that ending ruins whatever fun you had with the game...
Plus, which version did you play? Take PS3 one... Excellent my ass! One of the worst porting jobs I've seen in ages. But of course I do agree that plot lines from previous games get addressed in most awesome way.

 

[Frankster]

Is anyone else finding it hard to play the game through again knowing how it ends? I love the multiplayer but I haven't touched the single player game since I finished it.

I feel the same way for playing through me3, originally I had planned to do a whole bunch of playthroughs but after that ending... Yeh lost motivation and only play me3 for the multi aswell.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

I look forward to The Big Picture episode where he gets on his soapbox and starts hurling insults at us.

Me too. I like hearing (but don't necessarily agree with) his views on things, so this one would be interesting.

He is actually going to address it in his other show, the Game Overthinker. I checked the site and sure enough, the next episode is covering the ME3 controversy. As T.O. would say, "Get your popcorn ready."

 

[Cid Silverwing]

Bioware promised, and they didn't deliver. They now have a mandatory obligation to unfuck themselves and fix the ending.

 

[dragonswarrior]

Eh. I usually like what MovieBob has to say, but he has always been way to into objectivism for my tastes.

Objectivism, and the idea of "an artists work is sacred and solely their own!!" is silly to begin with.

It's even sillier when applied to an interactive medium.

 

[Archer666]

Bob is being Bob and crying about how people don't give a crap about the things he does. In this case, games being art and unchangeable after release.

Its funny because I doubt the fans that want to change the ending care if gaming is art. They feel they were wronged and are now doing things to try and "fix" their situation.

Thats it. The majority of people don't care if games are taken seriously or as ART or whatever, they just want to be entertained. Not validating themselves for enjoying a hobby or get a nice big feeling of superiority for enjoying an "art form".

I'll wait to see how much they changed the ending before I give my opinion on it. I don't think a small change is bad, like adding several seconds of footage or something. Hell, Witcher 2 Extended Edition is adding new ending cinematics and nobody seems to be crying about that...

 

[him over there]

Okay third post in this thread but I just had to say. This entire scenario, (Fanboys *****, developers go oh shit and change the ending) happened entirely verbatim regarding Metal Gear Solid 4. You know what happened? Nobody cared.

 

[Saltyk]

So, was this just 12 plus pages of people talking about how much they don't care about MovieBob's opinions? And then proceeding to give their opinions on MovieBob's opinions? Yeah, that seems logical.

I personally don't care about the "controversy" or anyone's opinions on it.

Then again, I haven't played Mass Effect 3. Yet.

 

[Lalo Lomeli]

I agree with MovieBob, you're being a buch of crybabies.

 

[goose4291]

Except they didn't change the ending. Sooooo, I dunno.

It's not to do with the changing of the end, it's the attitude he takes regarding Mass Effect fans at large.

And though they didn't change the ending it's more to do with how DC caved into the fan outcry and campaign to bring him back to the way he was before they changed the story line.

 

[Starke]

MovieBob's point would have been 100% valid... But in this case the actual content of endings matter. The sheer idiocy of it... I can't remember any move or book that comes up with something so flat-out stupid.
What, next thing George Lucas will re-release Star Wars and turn Darth Vader into rainbow unicorn and Death Star will be destroyed by the power of love of two lesbian black chicks. Would you defend this idiocy too? Or you will say that re-release is a piece of crap unworthy of being put in close proximity of actual art?
The problem with ME3 is that it's actually that bad already. It's not art. ME3 is a shitty consumer product. And is treated as one.

If you wanna blame someone, blame Bioware. They sacked original writer during ME2 development and put an idiotic rock song "Starchild" in the end instead of actual one. ME3 is an example of corporation botching art, where writers get fired and producers write story based on bad songs and stock images.
Shame on you, Moviebob. There goes your credibility.

Now did they actually fire him or did he just leave? Sources! I NEED SOURCES!

If you look at the situation as a whole, it looks a lot like he got shoved out the door. I mean, he was working on an ongoing project, and just up and leaves during that project without looking and securing another job first?

Usually, if you're working someplace and you want to find something better, you'll actually line up something better before leaving your job. Usually. It's not proof, but it does look kinda suspicious.

 

[Primus1985]

I look forward to The Big Picture episode where he gets on his soapbox and starts hurling insults at us.

As he rightfully should! *trollface*

To which I mean he should go after all these butt-hurt, cry-baby fanboys that have ruined gaming integrity.

Bioware said and I quote "We are not done with the Mass Effect universe but ME3 will be the end of Cmdr Shepard's story." Did everyone think it was just going to be sunshine, lollipops and rainbows? Its The Reapers for sh- sakes! Its was bound to be a bloody, messy, and maybe even a bit depressing ending.

I barely started playing ME3 when all this talk about the ending came up. So I did some checking: Ok so their is a gauge that fills to let you know how well you will fair in the Final battle. Decisions you made in ME1 and 2(most notably saving or destroying the Collector base) raise or lower said gauge. Unless you where at least 90%(a rating of 4000-5000), meaning you made the best choices throughout ME1,2, and 3, or chose to "control" the Reapers, Shepard and Anderson die, and most of the time Earth would be destroyed, or damn near.


This really didnt shock me, mainly because studying the mythos I knew it was going to be hard, and I already knew that the decisions I made in ME1 and 2 would impact the final battle so I replayed 1 and 2. I dont get why any Mass Effect or Bioware fanboi would be raising their fist in anger, and Im a huge Bioware fan! Any REAL ME fan would know to expect this, and to ***** and moan at Bioware for giving an actual ending to a story is ludicrous bordering on insanity.

Now I cant even play ME3 cause Bioware is gonna change the ending and depending on what changes I may even have to replay 2 again! INSANITY! I dont blame Bioware personally, this is all EA's doing the souless money hungry bastards that they are.

EA might as well have bent Bioware's writers over a table and thrust as a big "F- Your story I want $$$!"




In closing: Thanks to all the butt-hurt, crybaby fanbois that have ruined and delayed something ive waited almost a decade for.

 

[Starke]

To be blunt, on that first one? Fucking good!

Video games, as an art form need to go back about a decade. Deus Ex: Human Revolution did, and look at the quality we got.

Games ten years ago included things like System Shock 2, Planescape Torment, the original Fallout games, fucking Baldur's Gate, the original Deus Ex.

The fact is, a decade ago, video games were more of an art form than they are today in most cases. If Mass Effect 3 can provoke the industry to be set back ten years, we're all going to be better off for it.

Ahh, the good old rose-tinted spectacles! You don't happen to remember all the shitty titles from back then? You know, the majority of all titles released, like it always is? The shit ALWAYS outnumbers the good stuff, ALWAYS. It did so back then, and it does so now.

And what the hell, the Captcha is actually doing advertising now? It bloody asked me to describe the brand Juicy Juice!

Yeah, thing is, even the shitty stuff from ten-fifteen years ago was better than now. Even with stuff like Minecraft out there, the industry as a whole is more stagnant and focused on sequels than it was a decade ago, and that's not rose tinting the past, that's the industry has evolved into a more derivative state.

 

[him over there]

snips

Somebody is missing the point. Bioware promised that the endings would take into account your choices from the first two games and you would not just get a single choice at the end. What we got was the exact opposite of what they said they would give us. Nobody is mad that the series regarding shepherd is over, just that the series did a complete 180.

 

[Asita]

I look forward to The Big Picture episode where he gets on his soapbox and starts hurling insults at us.

As he rightfully should! *trollface*

To which I mean he should go after all these butt-hurt, cry-baby fanboys that have ruined gaming integrity.

Bioware said and I quote "We are not done with the Mass Effect universe but ME3 will be the end of Cmdr Shepard's story." Did everyone think it was just going to be sunshine, lollipops and rainbows? Its The Reapers for sh- sakes! Its was bound to be a bloody, messy, and maybe even a bit depressing ending.

Methinks you don't understand the nature of the complaints. By and large, they don't insist on the idea of a happy ending (though one that isn't downright nihilistic would certainly be a nice change of pace from the existing endings) but that the ending should actually reflect the quality people expect from Bioware. The complaints focus largely on how the ending breaks many of the principle rules of of good writing (for instance, it introducing new elements which further complicate the story without aiding resolution during the climax, invoking Deus/Diabolus ex Machina, the principle cast acting out of character, neglecting the denoument entirely and ending during the climax, failing to offer a sense of closure, lacking catharsis, feeling completely at odds with the rest of the narrative...there's actually a fairly good analysis here) to say nothing of how the final choice you make borders on satirizing the very concept through the sheer similarity of the results (Read: They all use an almost identical set of cinematics which become nigh-indistinguishible if you watch it in greyscale rather than color). It's not that the ending 'didn't have sunshine and lollipops'[footnote]where people even get this notion is beyond my understanding, given that the general consensus tends to be that 'the game is great up until the last ten minutes' with the more frequently alluded to great-moments being tragic in nature. It should be obvious that the people objecting have no problem with sad endings, which should thereby render the 'sunshine and lollipops' insult a rather obviously flawed train of thought[/footnote], it's that the ending felt rushed, inconsistent and of poor quality writing, acting as a glaring black mark on what could otherwise very well have been a magnum opus.