Muslim Should Not Equal Villain

[hawkeye52]

the fact that this is being so discussed to great lengths is a problem as it should be a given that muslims do not always equal villains. in my eyes any book or quote (whether it be from religion or anything else) can misconstrude in such a way that it says what you want it to say. this has been true of both christians and muslims and the only two religions which actually condone violence (the jewish and that hindus) only do so in self defence.

 

[Waif]

It is true that Muslims have been in a bad light (not near as much as Nazi's or Russians lol). However, Muslims have been attacking American values for just as long. Even today we can see hate speeches from Islamic leaders citing violence against Americans, and their way of life. I'm afraid I can't feel sympathetic towards a culture that hates democracy, it's values, and it's people. Also, they hate Jews with such a passion that it makes Nazi's look conservative. This is common knowledge, and also this:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.229799-Iran-Publishes-Anti-Israel-Videogames

Sorry, I'm just not buying that it is Muslims who are the real victims here. Of course, this is a matter of opinion.

 

[Theninja'skatana]

Muslims in My Monitor

From Prince of Persia to the recent Medal of Honor news of playable Taliban, the depiction of Muslims in videogames hasn't been any more even-handed than American TV or movies. Saladin Ahmed is one Muslim gamer who'd like to see that change.

Somebody already did a post similar to this on how religions haven't been treated fairly in games. Not to sound harsh but, there needs to be a scapegoat in most "modern" games for villians. Ask russians they've been there and are still there. Until stupid game designers get it in their heads that "kill unpopular group" doesn't sell games You're stuck.
Aslo get one zealot starting s*** and then it's a Shitstorm look at catholic priests

 

[Del-Toro]

Following people would like to have a word with you on stopping to complain and get over it: Russians, Germans.

Not funny, certainly not smart!

What? It's true aint it. Every time that Russians appear in a movie or a TV series, they are depicted as the big bad that needs to be overcome.

Germans in games only pop up in WORLD WAR II games and in movies and TV, germans aren't exactly spared as well.

Yet, not a lot of people complain about it beyond: Not again!

The only good german character I can think of is Rainbow 6's Dieter Weber, and during his introduction he's compared to the aryan SS ubermenches that always appeared on Nazi Propaganda posters. And Then, of course, there was the hostage situation he helped stop where one of the captives was a holocaust survivor...

The point is that muslims havn't escaped the shadow of 9/11, but then again Germans havn't escaped the shadow of Nazi Germany (which died 65 years ago) and Russians havn't escaped the shadow of the Cold War. Is that any more fair to those Germans and Russians who weren't involved in their people's darker moments?

 

[Theninja'skatana]

'Muslim Should Not Equal Villain' is a laughable travesty of an assertion.

Anyone who condones rape, murder, & slavery (as any Christian, Muslim or Jew must do if they follow their 'holy' texts) is a despicable sociopath in dire need of incarceration.

I'm... not sure how you expect anyone to agree with that statement.

Dude i"m an atheist and even this zealot-of-an-atheist (big eye)pisses me off. This is what I'm talking about he goes crazy (no offense) now my whole group looks bad

 

[Saladin Ahmed]

I can recall how refreshing it was for me as a young geek to sit there controlling the on-screen hero, hanging from ledges, avoiding spiked pits and quaffing potions - doing all the stuff that videogame heroes did - all while being the Prince of Persia! For a young Muslim gamer, it was nothing short of revolutionary.

How so? The Prince Of Persia games are set in ancient pre-Islamic Persia.

Actually, the original game is set in a highly mythologized "Persia" that's not really historical one way or another -- but there's an evil vizier named Jaffar, a sultan, turbans, scimitars, and the cover had a sheikh-looking guy on it. These are all Islamic influences, not ancient Persian.

 

[Saladin Ahmed]

Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell had Arabs in it? I don't remember that part...

First one took place mostly in Georgia (the country, not the state)
Second one took place in East Timor / Indonesia
Third one was all over the place: Panama, Japan, Korea... no Middle Eastern areas...
Double Agent has some Islamic characters and a Pakistani scientist... but they're only plot facilitators for the main enemy: an American terrorist organization (non-Islamic)
Finally, Conviction was all about a mole hunt in Third Echelon.

So... stupid question perhaps... but in which games were Muslims, Arabs, or other Middle Eastern peoples portrayed as the big baddies? Most of the time you fight Russian mercs and military local to the area you're in... again, not Middle Eastern areas.

Desert Strike? A thinly-veiled allusion to Desert Storm. Hardly anything to get upset about, considering the later title, Urban Strike, which depicts a terrorist attack on the World Trade Center in 2001 by a South American drug lord. I don't hear South Americans complaining about that one...

Metal Slug 2? Funny, I don't recall the enemies in the desert stages proclaiming any kind of religious affiliation... but perhaps you're just offended by the presentation? Well, how about the fact that the enemies you face for most of the game in almost the entire SERIES are nondescript whites? Or the fact that the game is basically a CARTOON?

True Lies? Weren't the "bad guys" in the intro to the story Russians? So what if the big bad for the movie was an Arab... remember the Arab agent who was working against the terrorist? The guy who was holding the news camera in that one scene? The one who died nobly trying to STOP the bad guy? No, let's just forget about the people who don't support the argument.

Let's just come to terms with some facts here: you're upset when Arabs are portrayed as enemies for any reason, even if they're also portrayed as heroes in the same context. Since that is the case, allow me to call bullshit on this, as everyone has had their turn as "the bad guy" in video games and movies over the years.

*Ahem* Bullshit.

Thank you.

1) I was working from memory, mostly recalling the Indonesia stuff and the 'nukes for sale' Pakistani guy in the Splinter Cell games. So in that case, yeah, the case may be a bit overstated. Good point and my bad.

2) The fact that Desert Strike is a take on the Gulf War proves my point, rather than disproving it.

3) You're arguing that the fact that Metal Slug's graphics are violently cartoonish *keep* it from doing violently cartoonish ethnic caricature? That's...odd.

4) One sidekicky Arab in True Lies, while better than nothing, doesn't quite make up for the hordes of evil Arabs that get blown away, esp. b/c it's anther case of Americanized Arab=good guy, Guys With Accents=Bad Guys.

 

[Necromancer1991]

Muslims (as villains) are the current focus of recent FPSs, remember Nazi's, those dudes with the gray uniforms and red armbands, whatever happened to them (they were king of the hills for a REALLY long time)?

 

[DiscoAtThePanic]

Iran Publishes Anti-Israel Videogames

Iran is producing videogames so "the young generation" can learn about the "crimes" of "the Zionist regime."

It seems that Iran has realized that videogames are useful, after all. At least, they are when those in power want to spread some propaganda around. According to the Times of India, the student arm of Basij (the country's paramilitary volunteer militia) has released two games that convey a strong anti-Israel message.

One of the games, Assault on Freedom Convoy is based on the <a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_flotilla_raid>Gaza Flotilla Raid that resulted in the deaths of nine Turkish activists. The game apparently focuses on the "crimes of the Zionist regime during the attack on the flotilla."

The other game the student wing of Basij unveiled is called Devil Den 2, though no real details have been revealed.

The Islamic Republic News Agency (Iran's official news agency) reported that Mohammad Reza Jokar - head of the Basij student arm - openly believes in the power of such games. "The young generation must find out about the Zionist regime," Jokar apparently told the IRNA, "and since videogames enjoy large audiences, they were unveiled ahead of Quds Day."

Quds Day is an annual event on the last Friday of Ramadan. Rallies and demonstrations are held to express "solidarity with the Palestinian people and opposing Zionism as well as Israel's control of Jerusalem ... participation in protests on Quds Day is particularly strong in non-Arab Iran, where Ayatollah Khomeini first introduced the event."

Source: <a href=http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/Iran-unveils-video-games-depicting-Israeli-crimes/articleshow/6480232.cms>Times of India via <a href=http://gamepolitics.com/2010/09/02/iran-launches-anti-israeli-games>GamePolitics

Permalink

 

[Saladin Ahmed]

Maybe their wouldn't be backlash if extremist dictators didn't rule nearly every damn country in the Middle East.

And the ground zero mosque? How is that Islamaphobic? An unnecessary and unpaid for mosque is being built near a site of muslim extremists attack on American soil. And its a Cordoba mosque, the thing muslims build when they declare a victory.

A) Sooo because there are dictators (half of them American-supported) in the Middle East, random cabbies and regular people -- some of whom came here to flee said dictators, some of whom were born here -- should expect to get knifed and have their houses of worship bombed? Nice logic!

B) Um, I didn't bring up the ISLAMIC CENTER (not a mosque) that is FOUR LONG NEW YORK BLOCKS FROM (not 'at') Ground Zero. This is an article post about video games. But FWIW I live in New York and actually dealt with 9/11 in the real world. I thought my friends might have been killed, and my dad thought I might have been. My (incidentally Arab) friend's dad was murdered in those attacks. So I don't need to be lectured yet again about an 'attack on American soil' that all the armchair patriots watched on TV.

C) "its a Cordoba mosque, the thing muslims build when they declare a victory." Umm, hunh? This is...just totally wrong. There's no such thing as 'a cordoba mosque' -- the phrase doesn't even make sense. Cordoba was a *city.* Where are you getting your info? Don't believe everything you hear on tv or read on the internet...

 

[DiscoAtThePanic]

My Grandfather was killed in a carjacking by a member of another race. Does that give me the right to demonize all members of that race? No. It does, however, prove that SOME members of that race are criminals. I do not think any mainstream game has ever claimed that ALL members of the Muslim faith are villains. Does Iran make that distinction in its games? no. In Afganistan, we are workign with Afgan Muslims who are not members of the Taliban and Al-Quaeda(sp?), but we are fighting against Muslims. Who else would a game set in the present day have us fight against? BP? France? (That might be cool). The fact is, our current enemies are Muslim. Yes, we should make it clear that not all Muslims are our enemy. (Maybe if we shot Glenn Beck, that might be a good sign.) Bit we cannot just fight the Nazi's in every videogame ever, and I am sick of Zombies. We have real enemies. Some of the blame for how they are portrayed falls squarely on them.

 

[Saladin Ahmed]

It is true that Muslims have been in a bad light (not near as much as Nazi's or Russians lol). However, Muslims have been attacking American values for just as long. Even today we can see hate speeches from Islamic leaders citing violence against Americans, and their way of life. I'm afraid I can't feel sympathetic towards a culture that hates democracy, it's values, and it's people. Also, they hate Jews with such a passion that it makes Nazi's look conservative. This is common knowledge, and also this:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.229799-Iran-Publishes-Anti-Israel-Videogames

Sorry, I'm just not buying that it is Muslims who are the real victims here. Of course, this is a matter of opinion.

Why do you assume that these hings are true of ALL Muslims, or even of a significant portion? I could post a link to the crappy Left Behind games and go 'Hey, these were made in America! Clearly, these reflect the way Americans in general feel!' -- but that would be dumb.

 

[Saladin Ahmed]

Thanks again for all the responses, folks -- hell, even the negative ones. I'll be immersed in novel revisions and taking care of my kids the next few days, so I may not be able to read/respond as swiftly as I've done thus far, and it's seeming like a lot of arguments are happening over and over again anyway. In any case have a good holiday for those of you in Labor Day territory.

 

[guntotingtomcat]

To be honest I see all dogma as stupid. I guess I see all organised religious characters as moronic.
Not evil, though. That doesn't necessarily follow.

 

[Lawyer105]

It is true that Muslims have been in a bad light (not near as much as Nazi's or Russians lol). However, Muslims have been attacking American values for just as long. Even today we can see hate speeches from Islamic leaders citing violence against Americans, and their way of life. I'm afraid I can't feel sympathetic towards a culture that hates democracy, it's values, and it's people. Also, they hate Jews with such a passion that it makes Nazi's look conservative. This is common knowledge, and also this:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.229799-Iran-Publishes-Anti-Israel-Videogames

Sorry, I'm just not buying that it is Muslims who are the real victims here. Of course, this is a matter of opinion.

This. Why is it such a big issue because it's about Muslims?

The Nazi's were bastards, and now the Germans are endlessly getting stick about it in virtually every shooter that comes out. You even get Nazi Zombies now. And they suck it up and move on.

Ditto for the Russians.

But Muslims? Nooo... can't do that. Their sensitive feelings might get hurt. Now keep in mind that those same 'sensitive' feelings:
- stone people,
- abuse and oppress women,
- rabidly denouce ANYTHING that isn't completely in line with THEIR religion (funny how they're allowed to criticise everyone else, but cannot be criticised themselves),
- call for murder on London and Amsterdam streets without getting arrested for promoting hate,
- commit terrorists acts,
and so on. Sure, it's not ALL of them. Many living in the Western world are just fine. But equally many are dragging their junk across into our world and stoning/honor killing people in Western countries now too!

So no. I don't have much sympathy at all.

When the 'moderate' Muslims are prepared to stand up and say "No! This is not acceptable!" and do something to stop it, then we've got room to talk. But the vast majority only ever go as far as "No! This is not acceptable. But I can understand why you're doing it, and even though I won't do it myself, I kinda support YOU doing it." and then do nothing to stop it.

Until they stand up to be counted, they can all bugger off.

 

[Orcus The Ultimate]

Muslims in My Monitor

From Prince of Persia to the recent Medal of Honor news of playable Taliban, the depiction of Muslims in videogames hasn't been any more even-handed than American TV or movies. Saladin Ahmed is one Muslim gamer who'd like to see that change.

Read Full Article

Persians weren't always muslims... i agree in the MoH thingy tho.


HATRED+FEAR are a powerful tool of Propaganda, war explanation, and Martial Law.

 

[Haagrum]

I think that for some reason the Islamic religion can be a little more fanatical than say the jewish or christian religions. Besides the 9/11 attacks really imprinted a deep hatred in the american psyche, and although its not fair, many Muslims would feel the same if a bunch of christian fanatics bombed islamic cities.

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/30/weve-seen-this-movie-before/

See also: Westboro Baptist Church; Pope Benedict's position on appointing women bishops; the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin.

No-one is (or should) be arguing that there are fringe radicals associated with every movement, religious or otherwise. However, the constant reinforcement of Islam as "alien" and "dangerous" has to be viewed in context. There are plenty of similar demons that could be paraded about any other religion, to say nothing of totalitarian political movements (whether they have achieved power or not). The selection of who/which group to demonise publicly is a political event, and in this sense, Islam has copped a lot more than its fair share of flak.

Put bluntly, fear sells copy. It's easier to sell fear if people are ignorant about it, whether it's about immigrants ("They took mah jerb!"), refugees (particularly misused here in Australia), Islam (lunatics blew up the WTC, so Islam is to blame in perpetuity because they were Muslims and correlation = causation), government spending (the level of economic knowledge on display is truly terrifying), justifications for war ("They have WMD! No, really! We can't find them, but trust me, they have them!") or terrorism (statistically, you're far more likely to be brutally murdered by a friend or lover). Fear means you don't have to think, that it's okay to just react. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, most people are content to leave it at that, rather than ask for a more detailed explanation.

Personally, I think the greater problem is manufacturing ignorance. People generally don't want ethically-complicated or storyline-heavy FPS games, we want splatter-fests (or we'd have more games like Deus Ex). That moral choice stuff's what RPGs are for, right? If the enemies are human, you need to reduce them to caricatures so that no-one stops to think why they need to be shot. In this instance, I think Saladin Ahmed is on target (no pun intended), and the mere statement that Iran is paying for anti-Israel games does not make it inherently "better" or acceptable for the West to do it on a greater scale and an (arguably) less-blatantly-intentional level. In fact, the very invisibility of it (in that so many people don't even see what the issue is) is what makes his point more compelling.

 

[LarenzoAOG]

Their are assholes in every culture and religion and if you are someone who bases ur opinion of an entire culture on the actions of a few radicals then YOU are an asshole too... in fact ur one of the alpha assholes that helps facilitate assholeism for all the other assholes. I'll take whatever you got moderators!

 

[Waif]

It is true that Muslims have been in a bad light (not near as much as Nazi's or Russians lol). However, Muslims have been attacking American values for just as long. Even today we can see hate speeches from Islamic leaders citing violence against Americans, and their way of life. I'm afraid I can't feel sympathetic towards a culture that hates democracy, it's values, and it's people. Also, they hate Jews with such a passion that it makes Nazi's look conservative. This is common knowledge, and also this:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.229799-Iran-Publishes-Anti-Israel-Videogames

Sorry, I'm just not buying that it is Muslims who are the real victims here. Of course, this is a matter of opinion.

Why do you assume that these hings are true of ALL Muslims, or even of a significant portion? I could post a link to the crappy Left Behind games and go 'Hey, these were made in America! Clearly, these reflect the way Americans in general feel!' -- but that would be dumb.

I never said "all" muslims are like this. It is true that I didn't say otherwise, but I feel you have read between the lines in a very incorrect fashion. I did speak, in terms of cultural biases within the muslim community. Biases that not all are bound to share (as you will find in America as well), however, they do dominate the overall climate of the middle east and is now affecting Europe. It is certainly a significant portion of muslims however, because of all the riots:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62118O20100302

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2010/06/muslims-riots-in-sweden-its-raning-stones-pm-reinfeld-extremely-serious-situation-an-attack-on-both-.html

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/07/uk-riots-in-dudley-muslim-gangs-attacking-people.html

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9d1tv_paris-muslim-riots_news


Just to post a few links. The reality of it is, if this is all the world sees. What do you think people will think? The fault is clearly not so one sided.