Naughty Dog Co-Founder: Nintendo ?Irrelevant as a Hardware Manufacturer?

[BrotherRool]

He's not an idiot, the people taking the quote out of context are the ones being silly. He was specifically talking about the Wii U and actually even cited the fact that more Wii's are being sold than Wii U's right now

He's absolutely an idiot.

The 3DS was in the exact same hotseat just a few years ago, and these same idiots were declaring Nintendo's death then, too. Now it dominates the market to such a disgusting degree that you may as well still call it a monopoly.

True, the Wii U will likely never reach the same levels as the PS4 or Xbone. That seems vastly unlikely given the incredible popularity of both systems and is partially due to the entire wasted year that the Wii U didn't put out anything worth buying. But the presumption that their hardware will simply never sell or be relevant....is jumping to a conclusion much too quickly, which is a mistake. The Wii's impact on gaming is still felt today in a variety of ways, in fact a lot of the Kinect's focus on smart TV functionality wouldn't even be there if the motion control market hadn't been introduced to gaming by the Wii. The concept of second-screen gaming and being able to move a game from a TV screen to a tablet to any other screen is some very versatile software and hardware tech that could very well have that same level of impact in the long run, even if the Wii U itself is a failure.

In other words, software idiots who contributed to the destruction of existing software companies (THQ) should stick to selling their software, and stop telling hardware giants how to sell their hardware.

He wasn't even talking about 'Is the Wii U relevant' he was being asked 'Which console will sell the bets this generation' and was saying the Wii U is no longer a competitor in that discussion. Although I think you could probably read into it that he was elaborating to say 'The Wii U is not relevant to the interests of most AAA buyers and publishers this generation' I feel like you'd be reading way too much into that sentence if you were also to read it as 'The Wii U is technologically irrelevant and irrelevant to all demographics'

He was asked a very specific question in a very specific setting clearly targeted towards a very specific audience and he gave a slightly general answer but calling him an idiot because people are choosing to read it as some sort of grand statement about the fundamental nature of our universe is unfair

 

[kilenem]

Yeah but I don't think it matters the way tech is going. The PS4 and the X1 are suppose to be the peak of gaming but you can build a PC rig for around 100-150 more that plays games in higher resolution and at a better frame rate.

 

[A-D.]

Plus, he basicly ran THQ into the ground, or at least it went under on his watch, so really he shouldnt be talking about other companies anyway.

What does THQ closing down have to do with games being hindered by their hardware? Nothing, so there's no reason for THQ to be a part of this discussion or a factor of his opinion. If he was criticising Nintendo for bad publishing practices or running the financial side of Nintendo then it would become a factor.

Naughty Dog didnt make anything other than Playstation games then too, so the point is just as valid.

That's factually wrong.

If you're going to make an argument make sure your information is correct next time.

Except the mainpoint i made is still valid, i.e. his statement should be taken with a bag of salt at best. Just because he works in the industry doesnt exactly mean he is correct with his assessment, the closure of THQ is partially proof of that since he too either partially caused or failed to reverse the course to closure. That being said hardware does not win you the "generation". As i pointed out, consoles are still viable even though ironically enough the PC has the best hardware out of all of them. So if hardware was the key, no console would last long. Software AKA Games are the key here, and unless either Sony or Microsoft through third parties can provide a ton more and better games than Nintendo means that Nintendo essentially "won". Even if not, Nintendo will be around for a while.

Also, you might want to recheck your facts as well, Naughty Dog has, under its current name as well as its original name only made 2 Games for the Apple 2, 2 for the Apple 2GS, 1 for the Sega Genesis and 1 for the 3DO. The rest are all exclusively playstation titles and none are multiplatform either as far as i know.

 

[thanatos388]

Well, can't really say he's wrong. I mean really, who actually wanted the Wii or the WiiU for the hardware? The only thing that people actually want nintendo for are their first party games.

Well as far as games go, the Wii U is winning the console war right now. and the Wii U doesn't even let me watch my TV on my TV. Why are so many devs acting like hardware specs somehow a indicator of what we should buy? It's meaningless and at least Nintendo is starting to release some quality games (although one of those is a HD remake).

 

[Phrozenflame500]

Well, he's not wrong. The Wii U's biggest draw was always its first-party titles, and its hardware doesn't have the same novelty that the Wii had nor the power the PS4/xBone has.

People don't buy the Wii U for the hardware, they buy it for the games.

 

[Arnoxthe1]

I'm just gonna put it this way. The seventh generation party (hardware wise) is coming to a full close and Nintendo has just arrived completely oblivious to the fact that everyone is already long gone and are now working on getting the eighth generation party into full swing. On top of all that, Nintendo didn't even bring much in the way of entertainment to the now dead party.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

I think 'half-assed' sums up a white elephant in this discussion.

For some reason, we love running in circles saying that the Wii U's hardware isn't up to par, or is difficult to develop for; thusly, third parties run away.

Why do I care about third party developers who either don't have the expertise or the creativity to develop for a set console? Even on terms of 'hardware' (which, face it kiddos, you only mean GRAPHICS), if a development studio can't work to scale, then they're the ones lacking. Even that's predecated on the notion that 'advancment' in the industry largely means 'better graphics'.

I'd still love to see third party development for the Wii U, but that's something simply positive, and I haven't seen much genuinely positive in ANY part of the console market these days. Over the last 3 or so years I've seen enough dumb shit from the industry in general to know it's not entirely the fault of 'poorly selling, poorly specced' Wii U.

Problems with the third party game industry? Totally forgotten, when the notion of a pillar of the industry falling comes into view. A boner for disaster porn is what I see this as.

I do find it funny how people CONSTANTLY try to propagate this scenario in which Nintendo is somehow on the brink of collapse despite facts and history showing otherwise. They're pretty much unkillable at this point and that really seems to have left a big chunk of people bitter. It also doesn't help that Nintendo fucked up the narrative of "bigger and shinier", thus proving people who put so much stock in the 360 and PS3 that their way was merely A way, not the right way.

 

[ChupathingyX]

the closure of THQ

Once again, irrelevant.

Software AKA Games are the key here, and unless either Sony or Microsoft through third parties can provide a ton more and better games than Nintendo means that Nintendo essentially "won". Even if not, Nintendo will be around for a while.

Well then, it's a good thing he isn't even talking about games, only the hardware. He also implies multiple times in the article that Nintendo make great games, the hardware just isn't up to scratch. At this present time what he's saying seems true, but we'll still have to wait and see what happens.

In the meantime perhaps it's better not to get your undies in a knot and instead view all sides of the argument with deliberation.

2 Games for the Apple 2, 2 for the Apple 2GS, 1 for the Sega Genesis and 1 for the 3DO.

Precisely.

 

[A-D.]

the closure of THQ

Once again, irrelevant.

Software AKA Games are the key here, and unless either Sony or Microsoft through third parties can provide a ton more and better games than Nintendo means that Nintendo essentially "won". Even if not, Nintendo will be around for a while.

Well then, it's a good thing he isn't even talking about games, only the hardware. He also implies multiple times in the article that Nintendo make great games, the hardware just isn't up to scratch. At this present time what he's saying seems true, but we'll still have to wait and see what happens.

In the meantime perhaps it's better not to get your undies in a knot and instead view all sides of the argument with deliberation.

2 Games for the Apple 2, 2 for the Apple 2GS, 1 for the Sega Genesis and 1 for the 3DO.

Precisely.

Can you actually stop cherry-picking parts to make your argument? The closure of THQ IS relevant to the fact that just because he says something doesnt mean its true, or that we should believe it sight-unseen. He is just another one of the many people who bash the Wii U for "shitty hardware" because..what? Its not the PS4? If what he says were true, why did the Xbox 360 do better last gen than the PS3 which was hardware-wise the better console? And then why isnt the PC dominating all the consoles because, hardware-wise it cant be beaten by any of them?

There is a underlying lack of reasoning in such a statement that a console is somehow inferior, or couldnt "possibly be good" just because it doesnt support the next-best shit that the others are. Hell hardware rarely factors into it to begin with.

6th Gen: Dreamcast was hardware-wise the best console. PS2 still wins that gen.
7th Gen: PS3 has best hardware. Xbox360 wins the generation.

It is down to games, so why he would even ***** about hardware specs is beyond me, why anyone should even give a fuck is even worse. And "precisely" what? It still implies the bias. The moment the Playstation was actually on the market, they have done nothing but playstation games. They havent developed multiplatform at all, nor anything for Nintendo, the PC arguably, or even the Xbox. I honestly love when only reading something that confirms some tiny argument you make invalidates the logic behind what i said already.

 

[Souplex]

Ah yes, Naughty Dog, Playstation exclusive Naughty Dog.

What valuable input.

Is Naughty Dog still Playstation exclusive?
I thought a bunch of them jumped the fence recently which is why Insomniac (Or was it Sucker Punch? They're all parallel-universe versions of the same studio anyways) is making Sunset Overdrive X1 exclusive.

 

[VoidWanderer]

Sales figures don't lie, he is completely correct.

I have a PS4, I haven't so much as even considered a WiiU after the Wii I purchased on launch day became a nice dust collector since it literally had nothing I wanted to play because of its inferior hardware.

Honestly, Nintendo should have waited for the PS4 and XBONE to come out, upped their hardware specs a bit, then released, so they could ALSO get access to the 3rd party titles that actually sell. I'm sure Super Mario 3D world XX Hyper Mushroom Stew edition is a great game, but I simply don't care enough to drop $360 to find out.

I am slightly in the same boat. I didn't bother with the Wii, because none of their titles really grabbed me, but I did respect what they brought to the table.

Once the WiiU launched to average to middling sales, I just shrugged. I have mentioned that the only reason I would every buy a WiiU is if they bring out a sequel to Pokemon Snap. It is literally the perfect system for it. And what do they announce, a Pokemon Detective game... So that are going for the Ace Attorney crowd, and throwing in the camera as a gimmick, or are they not going to implement it?

Nintendo should've waited and boosted the power for their console, launching it within the same power bracket as the XB1 and the PS4

 

[Roxas1359]

Ah yes, Naughty Dog, Playstation exclusive Naughty Dog.

What valuable input.

Is Naughty Dog still Playstation exclusive?
I thought a bunch of them jumped the fence recently which is why Insomniac (Or was it Sucker Punch? They're all parallel-universe versions of the same studio anyways) is making Sunset Overdrive X1 exclusive.

Naughty Dog is first party along with Sucker Punch and Santa Monica, usually SCE is either omitted or not put in the title when Sony acquires a studio. Turns out though that Insomniac was never first party at all, but they were second party bordering first party, which actually really surprised me as well. It seems that Naughty Dog was the only one actually to be bought by Sony after leaving Universal Interactive and Insomniac just hitched a ride but was never bought. A first party developer can't just "jump fence" though, they'd have to be sold by their owners which in this case would be Sony. Since Insomniac was mainly second-party Microsoft had to just lay and wait for an opportunity to make a contract deal with Insomniac for an exclusive game. Was really easy too since Sony has been going through a rough financial time because of the PS3, but looks like the PS4 might fix that for them.

 

[ChupathingyX]

because..what? Its not the PS4? If what he says were true, why did the Xbox 360 do better last gen than the PS3 which was hardware-wise the better console? And then why isnt the PC dominating all the consoles because, hardware-wise it cant be beaten by any of them?

Uhhh, did you even read the article?

He was asked a question relating to the PS4 and One. PS3, 360, PC and others are irrelevant to the discussion.

There is a underlying lack of reasoning in such a statement

There was a lack of reasoning on your behalf in the first place when you attributed Rubin's comment to Naughty Dog. That was my gripe in the first place.

It is down to games, so why he would even ***** about hardware specs is beyond me,

Because...that was the question he was asked?

Also, I would hardly call his manner of speech in the article "*****[ing]". In fact, after criticising Nintendo he then immediately praises them which doesn't really seem like bitching to me.

I honestly love when only reading something that confirms some tiny argument you make invalidates the logic behind what i said already.

I wasn't really making an argument, just pointing out that what you said was wrong.

 

[A-D.]

7th Gen: PS3 has best hardware. Xbox360 wins the generation.

By "win" - do you mean ended up in last place?
The 360 only "won" in two countries and is in last place in terms of sales.

Just sayin'

I meant in terms of popularity and what games are available. And technically speaking the Xbox 360 did win in that regard. If we go by what sells most, well its relatively harder to actually pick a winner, otherwise the PS4 already won cause it sold more arguably on launch day, even though that has little merit.

because..what? Its not the PS4? If what he says were true, why did the Xbox 360 do better last gen than the PS3 which was hardware-wise the better console? And then why isnt the PC dominating all the consoles because, hardware-wise it cant be beaten by any of them?

Uhhh, did you even read the article?

He was asked a question relating to the PS4 and One. PS3, 360, PC and others are irrelevant to the discussion.

There is a underlying lack of reasoning in such a statement

There was a lack of reasoning on your behalf in the first place when you attributed Rubin's comment to Naughty Dog. That was my gripe in the first place.

It is down to games, so why he would even ***** about hardware specs is beyond me,

Because...that was the question he was asked?

Also, I would hardly call his manner of speech in the article "*****[ing]". In fact, after criticising Nintendo he then immediately praises them which doesn't really seem like bitching to me.

I honestly love when only reading something that confirms some tiny argument you make invalidates the logic behind what i said already.

I wasn't really making an argument, just pointing out that what you said was wrong.

I am not actually attributing those issues to Rubin specifically but more to the general sentiment of how these things go. Granted you could argue that the fault lies with the interviewer for asking the question but the sentiment stands still.

Its also incorrect to say X is irrelevant to a discussion. As i pointed out with the THQ example, just because he gives his opinion on it, it doesnt really carry that much weight, or at least it shouldnt. Its like asking Jim Sterling about whether the next Elder Scrolls will be good or bad, just because he is arguably in the industry albeit in a review/interview capacity doesnt mean his opinion would be correct, nor should it actually influence anyone one way or the other. I mean on paper the WiiU is hardware-wise the inferior console, this is true, but its really down to how that hardware is used, rather than just whats available. Compare PS2 games from the PS2's release up to its end, they got quite alot better even though the hardware never changed.

I just think that nobody should really comment on a platform they havent worked with in that way, its easy to judge something based on what it says on the tin, but thats hardly fair. And he hasnt really worked with the WiiU, nor have many other developers/publishers who make such statements, thats my problem with it and these questions and arguments being brought up.

 

[Charli]

Well, can't really say he's wrong. I mean really, who actually wanted the Wii or the WiiU for the hardware? The only thing that people actually want Nintendo for are their first party games.

Exactly alot of people jumped the gun here. As a hardware manufacturer, the dude is exactly right, however that's not what Nintendo focus on primarily, they want to make the cheapest yet still fairly up to date and unique console they can for THEIR games. And if Naughtydog doesn't want to be one of 'their games' then it's an irrelevant console or piece of hardware for him.


So yeah this is a 'cows go moo' statement. What was the point of covering this?