Net Neutrality being overruled. please god tell me its a joke.

[Just Ebola]

When exactly did this social experiment take place, because I certainly don't remember it.

Pre-Civil Rights era USA. You didn't learn about it in school?

Like I already said, homophobic assholes are going to be assholes regardless of what bills are in place.

Apply that logic and suddenly my stance makes a lot more sense.

It still doesn't, because I find no reason to let the law back their opinion up. I prefer their assholishness to run counter to the law, not have the law supporting them.

Oh I did, but it runs completely contrary to the sensibilities of the current times. That kind of thinking is kind of like expecting cavemen to be anti-fire. Of course people were racist and shitty before being racist and shitty was proven to be an evolutionary throwback, are you seriously using this as the basis of your argument?

Oh yea, I have no doubt the far left would love it if it were illegal to practice any religion that vilifies gays. Except everyone in this thread has gone out of their was to excuse muslim faiths but vilify every other one, when Islam teaches more hate than any other religion. Do you think you could explain to me why that is?

 

[Just Ebola]

You said something to the effect of big cityscapes more eco-friendly than less densely populated areas. I looked it up, and of course it's untrue. But I honestly don't care, this thread has been derailed enough as it is.

'Something to the effect'? I said that spreading the same population as a large city over a much larger area (hence less densely populated but more widely spread) was more environmentally damaging because you need much greater infrastructure.

If you've found something to the contrary I'd be interested to hear it because because it runs against most things I've read on the subject. Where did you look it up?

I'm not talking in hypotheticals here, the biggest metropolitan areas in the US still produce the most pollution. So yea, I guess what you're saying sounds nice on paper, but in the real world, where I live? You can see the smog above LA but the views above rural areas are nothing short of scenic.

Hell, lets take this to the next logical step, maybe tell me that on your DnD character sheets, the air quality is lovely in Mordor.

 

[Baffle]

I'm not talking in hypotheticals here, the biggest metropolitan areas in the US still produce the most pollution. So yea, I guess what you're saying sounds nice on paper, but in the real world, where I live? You can see the smog above LA but the views above rural areas are nothing short of scenic.

Yes, they produce the most localised pollution. That is obvious. But do you think it produces less pollution if you spread that population over a larger area and need more of everything - roads, pipelines, power, off-grid gas deliveries, more, smaller hospitals, schools, etc.? Or do you think you don't have as many of those beautiful rural areas? It's just economies of scale, and you get them by putting lots of people in a smaller area.

I don't play DnD, but I appreciate that when you get your facts from the Player's Handbook, you're going to end up being wrong most of the time.

 

[Just Ebola]

I'm not talking in hypotheticals here, the biggest metropolitan areas in the US still produce the most pollution. So yea, I guess what you're saying sounds nice on paper, but in the real world, where I live? You can see the smog above LA but the views above rural areas are nothing short of scenic.

Yes, they produce the most localised pollution. That is obvious. But do you think it produces less pollution if you spread that population over a larger area and need more of everything - roads, pipelines, power, off-grid gas deliveries, more, smaller hospitals, schools, etc.? Or do you think you don't have as many of those beautiful rural areas? It's just economies of scale, and you get them by putting lots of people in a smaller area.



I don't play DnD, but I appreciate that when you get your facts from the Player's Handbook, you're going to end up being wrong most of the time.

Mmm, 4 years of salt, I truly can't wait. Honestly I do think that they produce more pollution by being a small cluster of like-mindedness and traffic. If they lived in smaller communities maybe they could promote walkability and public transport that didn't choke every available inch of tarmac they can get their paws on.

And before you can guffaw about how NY and other places have public trams-

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQWXHoapfQlAI5POEr2xsaLTfW_Cm_HvePNegLMgqYY6T0x68CuYA

I could get into all the nuances and small touches that make such cityscapes an absolute shitshow, but something tells me it would be a complete waste in this thread.

 

[Smithnikov_v1legacy]

Oh I did, but it runs completely contrary to the sensibilities of the current times.

You don't live where I live. You haven't heard the talk here. You haven't heard business owners of many stripes saying "I'd kick every n*gger that walked in here out if I thought i wouldn't get shut down for it." You haven't lived in an area that as recently as 1998 ahd some of it's most popular restaurants still intentionally seating non-white customers away from the main dining area in the shittiest areas of the restaurant till they caught.

That kind of thinking is kind of like expecting cavemen to be anti-fire. Of course people were racist and shitty before being racist and shitty was proven to be an evolutionary throwback, are you seriously using this as the basis of your argument?

People still are. I don't want the law backing them up.

Oh yea, I have no doubt the far left would love it if it were illegal to practice any religion that vilifies gays.

Wait, are we talking about all practices of religion or the providing of services advertised as open ot the public?

Except everyone in this thread has gone out of their was to excuse muslim faiths but vilify every other one, when Islam teaches more hate than any other religion. Do you think you could explain to me why that is?

Everyone in this thread? You haven't talked to me about Islam, clearly. I despise Islam. Ideologically, spiritually, I hate it more than Christianity and that's saying quite a bit. I think the world would be quite better off if it were cast in the ideological dustbin of history.

 

[Just Ebola]

Oh I did, but it runs completely contrary to the sensibilities of the current times.

You don't live where I live. You haven't heard the talk here. You haven't heard business owners of many stripes saying "I'd kick every N*gger that walked in here out if I thought i wouldn't get shut down for it." You haven't lived in an area that as recently as 1998 was still intentionally seating non-white customers away from the main dining area in the shittiest areas of the restaurant till they caught.

That kind of thinking is kind of like expecting cavemen to be anti-fire. Of course people were racist and shitty before being racist and shitty was proven to be an evolutionary throwback, are you seriously using this as the basis of your argument?

People still are. I don't want the law backing them up.

Oh yea, I have no doubt the far left would love it if it were illegal to practice any religion that vilifies gays.

Wait, are we talking about all practices of religion or providing services advertised as open ot the public?

Except everyone in this thread has gone out of their was to excuse muslim faiths but vilify every other one, when Islam teaches more hate than any other religion. Do you think you could explain to me why that is?

Everyone in this thread? You haven't talked to me about Islam, clearly. I despise Islam. Idealogically, spiritually, I hate it more than Christianity and that's saying quite a bit. I think the world would be quite better off if it were cast in the idealogical dustbin of history.

I never said there weren't shitty people in the world, there are a ton of people that the rest of us could do without. But I don't think freedom should be a casualty of keeping such troglodytes in check, it's as simple as that. They aren't worth such a sacrifice.

I've been turned away from certain places for being who I am, of course I have an axe to grind against ignorant people. I once went to get a haircut for a job interview and asked to get a few inches off. A lady buzzed my head while I looked on, absolutely dumbstruck while all the barber said in her defense was "Men don't have long hair."

I'm not unaware or untouched by the shittiness of bigoted individuals. But I'll be damned if I let such people inform my opinions of what's right and wrong. I see such people as an evil to be overcome, regardless of whatever laws are in place, and not a force I should cower from and hope the government reigns in for me. Even though that's a mild example, I hope you see what I'm trying to say.

If you're of such an opinion, I think you should read through some of the earlier posts I've made in this thread, you might get a kick out of it. And maybe you'll see that I'm not the asshole Saelune seems to think I am, even though she can't be arsed to point out a single instance of me being unsympathetic to the LGBT movement.

 

[Saelune]

@Ebola_chan: You say I am attacking you personally yet every post you make to me starts off with a personal attack. You refuse to consider my side on this, so why should I consider yours?

 

[Baffle]

Mmm, 4 years of salt, I truly can't wait.

What's this in relation to? I'm not in the US you know. We've got our own clown in charge, but at least she got massive hands. Like a human JCB.

Honestly I do think that they produce more pollution by being a small cluster of like-mindedness and traffic. If they lived in smaller communities maybe they could promote walkability and public transport that didn't choke every available inch of tarmac they can get their paws on.

That's the opposite of how it works. Small, more widely spread communities have to drive more. Businesses that feed into one another cannot exist miles apart (why do you think industries in the same value chain are often physically clustered? Because they have to move goods from A to B, and the shorter the distance between A and B, the more efficient that is). If these places of work cannot be distant from one another, then the workers need to either live near the place of work, or they have to travel greater distances (more traffic over greater distances, pollution, infrastructure).

And before you can guffaw about how NY and other places have public trams-

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQWXHoapfQlAI5POEr2xsaLTfW_Cm_HvePNegLMgqYY6T0x68CuYA

I could get into all the nuances and small touches that make such cityscapes an absolute shitshow, but something tells me it would be a complete waste in this thread.

I don't guffaw, I point and laugh. I'd like to hear more about those nuances though. And I'd like to know where you looked up the greater impact of city living - like I say, it goes against everything I've read about it and I'd like to know more.

 

[Just Ebola]

@Ebola_chan: You say I am attacking you personally yet every post you make to me starts off with a personal attack. You refuse to consider my side on this, so why should I consider yours?

For the love of all that is holy, quote and point out this alleged attack I'm making on you! For all the things we disagree on, my biggest complaint is how unsubstantiated your claims are. I can beg you for one single citation of what you claim are attacks, but the next thing you post will be another baseless accusation.

At what point does this become tiresome for you? Because no reasonable person would read through this entire thread and find evidence of what you're saying is there. You think I'm attacking you? Fine, respond with one single shred of evidence. One line of me attacking you on a personal level, despite the fact that I haven't and you yourself have tried to drag my very person into this pointless pissing match.

This is about the 12th time I've said this, so what are you expecting will happen? That I'll get tired and stop pointing out your hypocrisy? Not gonna happen. I'll reiterate what I've said as many times as I have to, I don't appreciate people slandering me because they feel slighted.

You need help. A professional can help you with these delusions of persecution that you're feeling. What you're doing to yourself isn't healthy.

I'll place good odds that the next thing you say to me is basically just a re-worded version of this. Every post of mine usually starts off with me questioning why you won't pinpoint whatever attack I've supposedly committed towards you, not an attack.

I honestly feel like a professional should intervene at any moment. So seriously, I'm trying to understand. Why?

 

[Just Ebola]

Mmm, 4 years of salt, I truly can't wait.

What's this in relation to? I'm not in the US you know. We've got our own clown in charge, but at least she got massive hands. Like a human JCB.

Honestly I do think that they produce more pollution by being a small cluster of like-mindedness and traffic. If they lived in smaller communities maybe they could promote walkability and public transport that didn't choke every available inch of tarmac they can get their paws on.

That's the opposite of how it works. Small, more widely spread communities have to drive more. Businesses that feed into one another cannot exist miles apart (why do you think industries in the same value chain are often physically clustered? Because they have to move goods from A to B, and the shorter the distance between A and B, the more efficient that is). If these places of work cannot be distant from one another, then the workers need to either live near the place of work, or they have to travel greater distances (more traffic over greater distances, pollution, infrastructure).

And before you can guffaw about how NY and other places have public trams-

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQWXHoapfQlAI5POEr2xsaLTfW_Cm_HvePNegLMgqYY6T0x68CuYA

I could get into all the nuances and small touches that make such cityscapes an absolute shitshow, but something tells me it would be a complete waste in this thread.

I don't guffaw, I point and laugh. I'd like to hear more about those nuances though. And I'd like to know where you looked up the greater impact of city living - like I say, it goes against everything I've read about it and I'd like to know more.

You live in another country, that seems to be a running theme here. Do you realize the degree to which you've just invalidated your opinions of our government to me? Probably not, if you did, you would pack it in and call it a day. And it seems like every liberal I know is nigh inconsolable about Trump's election, at some point I can't help but find it amusing. The country is going in a new direction and some people can't handle it. Apparently people who don't even live here.

I'm not about to engage you any further about pollution and geography, this thread has been derailed enough. Fuck, more than enough. I'm just a dumb welder who doesn't know enough to argue about pollution and global warming to argue it anyways. So you win, pat yourself on the back, pour yourself a drink.

Just whatever you do, stop quoting me, I'm growing tired of this.

 

[Baffle]

You live in another country, that seems to be a running theme here. Do you realize the degree to which you've just invalidated your opinions of our government to me? Probably not, if you did, you would pack it in and call it a day. And it seems like every liberal I know is nigh inconsolable about Trump's election, at some point I can't help but find it amusing. The country is going in a new direction and some people can't handle it. Apparently people who don't even live here.

I'm not about to engage you any further about pollution and geography, this thread has been derailed enough. Fuck, more than enough. I'm just a dumb welder who doesn't know enough to argue about pollution and global warming to argue it anyways. So you win, pat yourself on the back, pour yourself a drink.

Just whatever you do, stop quoting me, I'm growing tired of this.

Okay, I haven't quoted you directly since you asked me not to (that is, I don't think you'll get the little yellow envelope). But while my living in another country apparently invalidates my opinion, your own is invalidated by pretending you know things that, by your own admission, you don't - I have to assume you're making up all your facts if you're making up these ones. Don't worry bud, you're going to fit right in for the next few years.

 

[Saelune]

@Ebola_chan: Now you attack my mental health?

It became tiresome when I had to deal with this same method of arguing with Zontar, Saltyk, and KissingSunlight, 3 other users I regularly butt heads with.

Sure, I could argue with you better, but I honestly dont care to. You wont change your mind and continue to ignore the problems Trump creates, and I wont stop caring that Trump is a problem.

You repeatedly proved you do not know what Trump is doing though, and without those facts regardless of your opinion on if they are good or bad, we cannot discuss this properly. Even those 3 I mentioned know what he is doing, even if they think they are not problems, or downplay them or just otherwise disagree with me about them.

 

[Zhukov]

As for what Trump inherited from Obama, how about a weakened military, a hostile force that Obama empowered at every chance and the largest national debt in US history, for starters? I know you'll probably deflect some of those things on circumstance, but they're still obstacles that no other US president in history has had to contend with.

Okay. And are any of those things relevant to the subjects being discussed here?

Yes, some of those I would deflect on circumstances. Namely the national dept one. Like I said, GFC, kinda expensive.

The weakened military I don't know enough about to comment on it.

Which hostile force empowered by Obama are you referring to? ISIS?

Yet people are still intent on crucifying the orange bastard even though he's only been in power for a fortnight.

Did you expect anything different? Less than half the population wanted him as leader and he's hit negative approval ratings in record time. Did you think people would just say, "Oh well, we lost the electoral college, better sit back and let it happen"? In my experience people just... don't work like that.

And that's before we even get into how those two weeks were spent. Maybe, maybe, if Trump & Co had made a call for unity and started out strong then people would be saying to give him a chance. Maybe.

Instead he spent his first two weeks whining about his inauguration attendance, taking holidays, issuing a fumbling executive order that was promptly slapped down on legal grounds and green-lit a botched military operation. Oh, and tweeting. Lots of tweeting.

As far as the wall not being the answer? I'll let you in on a secret: I don't know if it's the penultimate solution either. But we've tried everything else, and nothing else has worked. Unless you've been sitting on the perfect solution this whole time and chose not to share, lets maybe reserve judgment for a bit. It might not work, but I think it stands a pretty good chance and I'm not the only one. So yea, I don't think people should be breaking out the pitchforks just yet. Especially people who don't live in the country that's facing the illegal immigration problem. Call me an elitis I guess.

Alright. We shall see.

Personally I shall be profoundly surprised if the wall even gets built.

 

[Silvanus]

Antiquated specifics of building a centuries old wall. The labor and gold that was used has zero relevance to the discussion that's happening now. People are always talking about how building a border wall is implausible, so I used an example of a well-known and historic border wall to point out that it's not so far fetched after all. Pretty easy line of logic to follow, that's the beginning and end of the comparison I made.

What, then, is the purpose of that comparison in the first place? You've pointed out that a structure was built at some point, though not a single one of the same factors could transfer to the current-day proposition. That's just meaningless; it demonstrates nothing about the viability or plausibility of the today's wall at all.

No compassion? I've shown genuine concern for your well-being even though you've been callously writing me off and being insulting. Of course, I disagree so I'm practically a Saturday morning cartoon villain.

Well, no, you haven't actually "shown genuine compassion", have you? Adding in that your opponent should "get help", after a series of dismissive and insulting posts, does not somehow make it compassionate.

 

[RaikuFA]

Shouldn't this be in R&P?

 

[Smithnikov_v1legacy]

I never said there weren't shitty people in the world, there are a ton of people that the rest of us could do without. But I don't think freedom should be a casualty of keeping such troglodytes in check, it's as simple as that. They aren't worth such a sacrifice.

Glad civil rights workers and protestors didn't think like that.

I'm not unaware or untouched by the shittiness of bigoted individuals. But I'll be damned if I let such people inform my opinions of what's right and wrong. I see such people as an evil to be overcome, regardless of whatever laws are in place, and not a force I should cower from and hope the government reigns in for me. Even though that's a mild example, I hope you see what I'm trying to say.

Exactly what do you hope to do when they have the law on their side?

If you're of such an opinion, I think you should read through some of the earlier posts I've made in this thread, you might get a kick out of it. And maybe you'll see that I'm not the asshole Saelune seems to think I am, even though she can't be arsed to point out a single instance of me being unsympathetic to the LGBT movement.

Given your support for legal discrimination against them, I call you worse than unsympathetic. You're dangerous to it.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Shouldn't this be in R&P?

It went of the rails on page one.

There were no survivors.

Antiquated specifics of building a centuries old wall. The labor and gold that was used has zero relevance to the discussion that's happening now. People are always talking about how building a border wall is implausible, so I used an example of a well-known and historic border wall to point out that it's not so far fetched after all. Pretty easy line of logic to follow, that's the beginning and end of the comparison I made.

What, then, is the purpose of that comparison in the first place? You've pointed out that a structure was built at some point, though not a single one of the same factors could transfer to the current-day proposition. That's just meaningless; it demonstrates nothing about the viability or plausibility of the today's wall at all.

Look, just because building a giant wall cost China a huge amount of resources, killed hundreds of thousands of people working on it, took over two centuries to build, and didn't work has nothing to do with building a modern wall being implausible.

You know, if the United States want to throw massive amounts of money at it over a time period of several presidential administrations with almost a sure guarantee that it isn't going to work very well. Plausible!

The weakened military I don't know enough about to comment on it.

I do. It's bollocks.

The Pentagon almost routinely asks for a smaller budget and fewer resources than Congress ends up giving it, even during the Obama years. Their biggest concern is mostly that all of the crap Congress keeps buying for the military and throws money at developing isn't particularly useful for the conflicts we find ourselves in. Conventional warfare and Counter Insurgency warfare has very little overlap as far as logistics, strategy, tactics, and equipment needs go, and Congress keeps wanting to buy the Army new Main Battle Tanks.

 

[RaikuFA]

Shouldn't this be in R&P?

It went of the rails on page one.

There were no survivors.

My condolences to the families.

 

[Just Ebola]

As for what Trump inherited from Obama, how about a weakened military, a hostile force that Obama empowered at every chance and the largest national debt in US history, for starters? I know you'll probably deflect some of those things on circumstance, but they're still obstacles that no other US president in history has had to contend with.

Okay. And are any of those things relevant to the subjects being discussed here?

Yes, some of those I would deflect on circumstances. Namely the national dept one. Like I said, GFC, kinda expensive.

The weakened military I don't know enough about to comment on it.

Which hostile force empowered by Obama are you referring to? ISIS?

Yet people are still intent on crucifying the orange bastard even though he's only been in power for a fortnight.

Did you expect anything different? Less than half the population wanted him as leader and he's hit negative approval ratings in record time. Did you think people would just say, "Oh well, we lost the electoral college, better sit back and let it happen"? In my experience people just... don't work like that.

And that's before we even get into how those two weeks were spent. Maybe, maybe, if Trump & Co had made a call for unity and started out strong then people would be saying to give him a chance. Maybe.

Instead he spent his first two weeks whining about his inauguration attendance, taking holidays, issuing a fumbling executive order that was promptly slapped down on legal grounds and green-lit a botched military operation. Oh, and tweeting. Lots of tweeting.

As far as the wall not being the answer? I'll let you in on a secret: I don't know if it's the penultimate solution either. But we've tried everything else, and nothing else has worked. Unless you've been sitting on the perfect solution this whole time and chose not to share, lets maybe reserve judgment for a bit. It might not work, but I think it stands a pretty good chance and I'm not the only one. So yea, I don't think people should be breaking out the pitchforks just yet. Especially people who don't live in the country that's facing the illegal immigration problem. Call me an elitis I guess.

Alright. We shall see.

Personally I shall be profoundly surprised if the wall even gets built.

Did you even watch his inauguration? Where he called for unity and a stop to bickering (which hasn't died down yet) while leftists were busy tipping over cars and smashing windows? It's pretty clear that you're just going to support whatever narrative fits your tastes, whether it's factual or not.

And I consider it a pretty solid start, not to mention that the insane schedules he's had to keep (inaugarations, press hearing galas and the like stacked back to back over and over again) would've had Hillary keeled over halfway through the afternoon of day one.

Look, we've reached an impasse, I like the direction the country is moving in, you don't. Which again, you aren't an American, why should I put any stock into what you say about the intricacies of American values? I don't by the way. You've made some good points, but honestly I don't care to argue about it any more.

If America is a steaming crater exactly 4 years from now, then by all means continue looking down from on high and give yourself a pat on the back. I mean, I doubt it but, there you go.

 

[Saelune]

@Ebola_chan: [Compassion is the response to the suffering of others that motivates a desire to help]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compassion

Did you even watch EVERYTHING ELSE HE HAS EVER DONE EVER?

His paltry call for unity, was probably the only time he said someone else's written words for him. If actions speak only of division and narrow-minded hostility.

And I am an American and I hate the way this country is moving in. I also have a passing interest in US history and actually know the values and ideas this country was founded on, and it is not what Trump is doing or calling for.