Net Neutrality being overruled. please god tell me its a joke.

[Saelune]

@Ebola_chan: Milo is gay too. Being a minority doesnt make you immune to being a bigot. Thinking otherwise is dangerous. The right uses it (and people like Milo and Ben Carson) to be "They are for it, so it must be ok". And sure, the left can use it to be dicks about things too.

But hell, many gay people are oppressive to...other gay people. There is notable abuse against effeminate gay males, and against bisexuals. Trans people also get alot of shit from even our so called allies. It is sickening.

If you really are LGBT (and I know a few who like you dont care about LGBT rights, so there is precedent) then you need to give a fuck. For me, for yourself, for others like us.

If your own perseverance isnt enough of a motivator though, then what hope do I have to convince you?

And you arent compassionate to me just because you say so. You gloat over my potential suffering, that is not compassion.

 

[Smithnikov_v1legacy]

You seem to forget that this is a freedom of religious practice bill, not an "It's ok to marginalize and beat up gays" bill.

Beat up, no. Marginalize, yes.

I realize that the Escapist has a particularly low opinion of religious people- well, mostly Christianity for some reason

It couldnt' possibly be because many of us grew up and in a lot of cases still live in areas where fundamentalist Christianity is the norm? That we hear the rhetoric and statements of fundamentalist Christians on a regular basis?

So yea, I don't imagine everyone with a hard-on for hating gays is a business owner just waiting for an excuse to bully gay Americans. But then again, I am a slave to whimsy, and a notorious optimist so maybe take that with a grain of salt.

Considering you seem to be among the many Escapists who think that fundamentalist Christian authoritarians are a bedtime story, yea, and that we people who live right next to them are imagining things, I will.

Not to mention that I have enough faith in the judicial system that I believe they can see through people actually just practicing their religion, and people just using religion as a shroud to practice their homophobia.

Then you have little knowledge of the history of this country, it's clear.

 

[Zhukov]

We're really testing the lines of good taste here aren't we? Is there a particular reason you're latching onto a couple of words I already admitted to misremembering?

Huh? That one's on you buddy. Right here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.946845-Net-Neutrality-being-overruled-please-god-tell-me-its-a-joke?page=2#23895662]. You latched onto the word "sending" and what it would imply.

An odd tack to take if you ask me, but I'm willing to work with whatever ammunition you give me.

It's funny how Obama gets a pass for inheriting problems but Trump gets slammed for inheriting and even worse US, thanks in no small part to Obama's many, many fuckups. Gotta love that hypocrisy that accompanies so many far left arguments. Turn a blind eye to what doesn't fit your narrative, it's worked so well that the US is trying to turn as far away from the democratic party.

And which problems exactly did Trump inherit from Obama?

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there are at least some. Probably a whole bunch. But the issues being discussed here are the proposed border wall, the clusterfuck Muslim ban and, initially, Trump picking a FCC head who is opposed to net neutrality.

I fail to see how any of those were inherited. They're all ideas straight from the brilliant minds of Trump & Co.

It was supposed to be a bit of a popcorn analogy, I didn't expect you to latch onto it as super serious. My mistake. I was pointing out the fact that a wall can be really effective as a deterrent, way to take that one and run with it. I do enjoy the snide comments though. Besides, the point is to make it nigh impossible for them to bring drugs over, even though there are no good substitute to the American drug market nearby. That's kind of the point.

And speaking of drugs, they bring over a fuck ton. But having lived in the state that borders Mexico all your life, I'm sure you're familiar with all the nuances and ends-and-outs of the American/Mexican relationship, right? Oh wait, that's me. While we're pretending we know everything about each other's countries, is it true you have spiders that eat chickens over there?

I've seen the drugs and the effects they have on the people over here. Just how many friend's have you lost because they got some bad heroin from their cousin in Juarez? I promise it's not as many as I have. Or how many friends have lost family to cartel members? I wish I was making this up, but One of my closest friends had a niece who's head was found in a drink cooler south of the border. Forgive me for not wanting to see this kind of thing continue in my homeland.

Do you really think I'm some kind of monster who doesn't see this as a human issue? Whether you want to believe it or not, I know what I'm talking about. I've seen it first hand, you haven't. But yes, by all means continue to cast judgment from your place of superiority. On another continent.

No, I don't think you're a monster. Never said or even implied anything to that effect. For a Trump supporter you seem fairly reasonable. I just think you're wrong.

I'm not saying that crime and drug trafficking on the US-Mexico border isn't a problem. That would be bonkers. I'm saying that a wall isn't the solution. A wall is the kind of simple solution for a complex problem that only an idiot like Trump would propose. Well, an idiot or a manipulator trying to convince idiots that he has answers they can understand.

A terrorist attack is a terrorist attack, I never said it was a US-exclusive problem. But thanks for presuming things about me that you have no business to.

Okay. You've totally lost me here. I never said that you said... oh, fuck it.

And the only thing I presumed about you was that you're sloppy in citing sources that actually back up your arguments.

Even though I have an unpopular opinion, I've at least tried to stay civil. Maybe you should try to do the same, cause it kind of undercuts the whole big-hearted progressive thing you're going for.

Huh?

I am not particularly big-hearted and I have no idea if I count as a "progressive" or not.

 

[Just Ebola]

@Ebola_chan: Milo is gay too. Being a minority doesnt make you immune to being a bigot. Thinking otherwise is dangerous. The right uses it (and people like Milo and Ben Carson) to be "They are for it, so it must be ok". And sure, the left can use it to be dicks about things too.

But hell, many gay people are oppressive to...other gay people. There is notable abuse against effeminate gay males, and against bisexuals. Trans people also get alot of shit from even our so called allies. It is sickening.

If you really are LGBT (and I know a few who like you dont care about LGBT rights, so there is precedent) then you need to give a fuck. For me, for yourself, for others like us.

If your own perseverance isnt enough of a motivator though, then what hope do I have to convince you?

And you arent compassionate to me just because you say so. You gloat over my potential suffering, that is not compassion.

So you admit that members of the LGBT community are flawed, fallible humans now, but when it was convenient for you, you'd cite your status as an LGBT member as proof of your "openmindedness". But I shouldn't be surprised, you seem to shift around to whatever fits your narrative pretty often.

And where do you get off saying I don't care about gay rights? Exactly what do you think gives you the right to say I'm indifferent about gay rights just because I don't agree with you about a handful of fucking issues? The last play of someone who can't argue their points is to call out people personally. Didn't take you long to resort to that.

I am LGBT, and as such I'm going to focus my efforts to the real threat to people like you and me. The people who torture and murder people for being gay, or for being Jewish, or for being of a different religious belief. And no waste my time jumping on a bandwagon to heap hate on the easily-targeted flavor of the week who actually seems to give a shit about protecting Americans.

I haven't gloated over anyone's suffering, again you seem to think I'm some kind of comic book villain but strangely can't point out any proof to that affect. Please do, because everything you're saying has no basis in reality.

Please, what do I have to do to get you to actually back up anything you've claimed? If you're not going to respond with actual points, don't respond at all, you'll be doing us both a favor.

 

[Saelune]

@Ebola_chan: When did I say that? I am LGBT, and I am being attacked for it. I dont like that. I however took that experience to become open-minded and to empathize with others who like me are attacked for things we cant even control.

I say you dont care about gay rights because you keep going on about how you dont care about what is happening. You are dismissive and uninformed and seem to show no desire to change that.

You criticize me for calling you out personally, when you have been doing the same to me this whole conversation. I am arguing with -you- and you are arguing with -me-. We are both LGBT. I think it warrants being personal, cause it is. Do not criticize me for doing what you are doing too though.

I have responded to your points and you dismiss them.

I have played this game before, and it loses its fun...the first time. And that was months ago with other people.

My main recommendation is actually inform yourself on what Trump is doing. Assuming he wont be so bad based on no information is not a wise idea.

 

[Just Ebola]

We're really testing the lines of good taste here aren't we? Is there a particular reason you're latching onto a couple of words I already admitted to misremembering?

Huh? That one's on you buddy. Right here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.946845-Net-Neutrality-being-overruled-please-god-tell-me-its-a-joke?page=2#23895662]. You latched onto the word "sending" and what it would imply.

An odd tack to take if you ask me, but I'm willing to work with whatever ammunition you give me.

It's funny how Obama gets a pass for inheriting problems but Trump gets slammed for inheriting and even worse US, thanks in no small part to Obama's many, many fuckups. Gotta love that hypocrisy that accompanies so many far left arguments. Turn a blind eye to what doesn't fit your narrative, it's worked so well that the US is trying to turn as far away from the democratic party.

And which problems exactly did Trump inherit from Obama?

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there are at least some. Probably a whole bunch. But the issues being discussed here are the proposed border wall, the clusterfuck Muslim ban and, initially, Trump picking a FCC head who is opposed to net neutrality.

I fail to see how any of those were inherited. They're all ideas straight from the brilliant minds of Trump & Co.

It was supposed to be a bit of a popcorn analogy, I didn't expect you to latch onto it as super serious. My mistake. I was pointing out the fact that a wall can be really effective as a deterrent, way to take that one and run with it. I do enjoy the snide comments though. Besides, the point is to make it nigh impossible for them to bring drugs over, even though there are no good substitute to the American drug market nearby. That's kind of the point.

And speaking of drugs, they bring over a fuck ton. But having lived in the state that borders Mexico all your life, I'm sure you're familiar with all the nuances and ends-and-outs of the American/Mexican relationship, right? Oh wait, that's me. While we're pretending we know everything about each other's countries, is it true you have spiders that eat chickens over there?

I've seen the drugs and the effects they have on the people over here. Just how many friend's have you lost because they got some bad heroin from their cousin in Juarez? I promise it's not as many as I have. Or how many friends have lost family to cartel members? I wish I was making this up, but One of my closest friends had a niece who's head was found in a drink cooler south of the border. Forgive me for not wanting to see this kind of thing continue in my homeland.

Do you really think I'm some kind of monster who doesn't see this as a human issue? Whether you want to believe it or not, I know what I'm talking about. I've seen it first hand, you haven't. But yes, by all means continue to cast judgment from your place of superiority. On another continent.

No, I don't think you're a monster. Never said or even implied anything to that effect. For a Trump supporter you seem fairly reasonable. I just think you're wrong.

I'm not saying that crime and drug trafficking on the US-Mexico border isn't a problem. That would be bonkers. I'm saying that a wall isn't the solution. A wall is the kind of simple solution for a complex problem that only an idiot like Trump would propose. Well, an idiot or a manipulator trying to convince idiots that he has answers they can understand.

A terrorist attack is a terrorist attack, I never said it was a US-exclusive problem. But thanks for presuming things about me that you have no business to.

Okay. You've totally lost me here. I never said that you said... oh, fuck it.

And the only thing I presumed about you was that you're sloppy in citing sources that actually back up your arguments.

Even though I have an unpopular opinion, I've at least tried to stay civil. Maybe you should try to do the same, cause it kind of undercuts the whole big-hearted progressive thing you're going for.

Huh?

I am not particularly big-hearted and I have no idea if I count as a "progressive" or not.

I brought it up, but once I realized I was mistaken, I admitted it. I thought he didn't say "sending", I was wrong, but still believe it was shorthand for "they're crossing the border form mexico". That's the long and short of that.

As for what Trump inherited from Obama, how about a weakened military, a hostile force that Obama empowered at every chance and the largest national debt in US history, for starters? I know you'll probably deflect some of those things on circumstance, but they're still obstacles that no other US president in history has had to contend with. Yet people are still intent on crucifying the orange bastard even though he's only been in power for a fortnight.

As far as the wall not being the answer? I'll let you in on a secret: I don't know if it's the penultimate solution either. But we've tried everything else, and nothing else has worked. Unless you've been sitting on the perfect solution this whole time and chose not to share, lets maybe reserve judgment for a bit. It might not work, but I think it stands a pretty good chance and I'm not the only one. So yea, I don't think people should be breaking out the pitchforks just yet. Especially people who don't live in the country that's facing the illegal immigration problem. Call me an elitis I guess.

When you complained about one of the sites I linked being about the Paris attacks, you seemed to think that was a mistake on my part. I was using non-American examples of terrorism intentionally. Because radicalization is a real threat, not just in the US.

I just think it's ridiculous how close-minded some progressives can be. It doesn't matter if I'm liberal in so many different ways, I still get showered with shame for not getting behind a hateful bandwagon. Even when the non-bandwagoning side will directly positively affect my community.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

And I'll reiterate, I'm a member of the same LGBT community as you.

And the Religious Freedom Protection Act being put through as an executive order doesn't make you nervous?

Not really. In my experience, homophobic assholes are going to be assholes regardless of whatever legal protections are in place. I can only speak for myself here, but if a business rejects me because of their misguided hangups- I don't want whatever they're shilling.

Gay marriage is legal, and we have equal protections under the law. Even though gay marriage being legalized is fairly recent, I feel like people forget how amazing that is. There are countries who murder and oppress their gays. So it's kind of hard for me to get bent out of shape over a few bills that will likely only affect the LGBT community tangentially, if at all.

Like the folks in Texas trying to roll back gay marriage? I mean, sure, you can just go the next county over if the one you're in won't give you a license...provided that one will issue you a license.

And that's the rub. It isn't "what if one place won't take your business", it's "what if the only three grocery stores in town won't take your business?", it's "what if the ER doctor doesn't want to operate on your gay ass?" You forget: in the capitalist utopia of the United States, it's perfectly possible for a huge number of businesses to think certain people's money was worthless for no good reason.

I realize that the Escapist has a particularly low opinion of religious people- well, mostly Christianity for some reason

It couldnt' possibly be because many of us grew up and in a lot of cases still live in areas where fundamentalist Christianity is the norm? That we hear the rhetoric and statements of fundamentalist Christians on a regular basis?

Hell, I was raised Catholic and still identify as one with a few caveats, and I've got a rock-bottom view of the politics of so-called "Christians". Evangelical, born-again, fundamentalist, all code words for the same heresy.

 

[Just Ebola]

@Ebola_chan: When did I say that? I am LGBT, and I am being attacked for it. I dont like that. I however took that experience to become open-minded and to empathize with others who like me are attacked for things we cant even control.

I say you dont care about gay rights because you keep going on about how you dont care about what is happening. You are dismissive and uninformed and seem to show no desire to change that.

You criticize me for calling you out personally, when you have been doing the same to me this whole conversation. I am arguing with -you- and you are arguing with -me-. We are both LGBT. I think it warrants being personal, cause it is. Do not criticize me for doing what you are doing too though.

I have responded to your points and you dismiss them.

I have played this game before, and it loses its fun...the first time. And that was months ago with other people.

My main recommendation is actually inform yourself on what Trump is doing. Assuming he wont be so bad based on no information is not a wise idea.

After reading that, I am actually fucking dumbstruck. I honestly don't even know how to go about unpacking this miasma of deception you've typed up. I guess the only way to, is to take it piece by piece.

First off, when did you say what? That's the problem when you don't quote someone directly, or at the very least include the snippets of text you're talking about. Who is attacking you for being LGBT? It's certainly not me, because I haven't said anything about your sexual orientation, and I definitely haven't attacked you.

Again, do not mistake my not agreeing with you as me not caring about gay rights. That's untrue, and quite frankly a shitty thing to do. You say I'm dismissive and uniformed, but I've provided way more information than you, I've invited you to explain your side about a dozen times no (which you still haven't) but I'm somehow dismissive? Either one of use is delusional, or doesn't know what the word 'dismissive' means.

And no, there's no reason to make what should be a civil discussion personal and wounding. Like I said, it's the last resort of the desperate and the churlish. You say I've made this personal, but I haven't brought anything about you personally into this argument. Something you won't extend to me.

You know what the worst part is? I'm going to waste my time putting thought in, and typing this up, and I know your reply is just going to be along the lines of "You're wrong, and a jerk." Without providing even a bit of evidence, because there is none.

Unlike you, I've been civil, I've responded to criticisms with my actual reasoning. I don't use this word often, but you're hypocrisy and lack of perspective in this discussion is quite frankly disgusting.

 

[Just Ebola]

And I'll reiterate, I'm a member of the same LGBT community as you.

And the Religious Freedom Protection Act being put through as an executive order doesn't make you nervous?

Not really. In my experience, homophobic assholes are going to be assholes regardless of whatever legal protections are in place. I can only speak for myself here, but if a business rejects me because of their misguided hangups- I don't want whatever they're shilling.

Gay marriage is legal, and we have equal protections under the law. Even though gay marriage being legalized is fairly recent, I feel like people forget how amazing that is. There are countries who murder and oppress their gays. So it's kind of hard for me to get bent out of shape over a few bills that will likely only affect the LGBT community tangentially, if at all.

Like the folks in Texas trying to roll back gay marriage? I mean, sure, you can just go the next county over if the one you're in won't give you a license...provided that one will issue you a license.

And that's the rub. It isn't "what if one place won't take your business", it's "what if the only three grocery stores in town won't take your business?", it's "what if the ER doctor doesn't want to operate on your gay ass?" You forget: in the capitalist utopia of the United States, it's perfectly possible for a huge number of businesses to think certain people's money was worthless for no good reason.

I realize that the Escapist has a particularly low opinion of religious people- well, mostly Christianity for some reason

It couldnt' possibly be because many of us grew up and in a lot of cases still live in areas where fundamentalist Christianity is the norm? That we hear the rhetoric and statements of fundamentalist Christians on a regular basis?

Hell, I was raised Catholic and still identify as one with a few caveats, and I've got a rock-bottom view of the politics of so-called "Christians". Evangelical, born-again, fundamentalist, all code words for the same heresy.

Yet another person who wants me to answer for things I had nothing to do with. All I can really do is refer you to the earlier posts I made. Sure, you can let your fears and concerns run rampant, that certainly seems to be going around. Personally I have enough faith in the system and society as a whole to believe that won't happen. At least not on a big enough scale to warrant the massive outcry we're seeing now.

 

[Smithnikov_v1legacy]

Personally I have enough faith in the system and society as a whole to believe that won't happen. At least not on a big enough scale to warrant the massive outcry we're seeing now.

And most of the rest of us haven't forgotten history and the lessons to not repeat it.

When you support a bill that allows a business, housing, or other services to legally kick you to the curb because you're LGBT, I'm sorry, but they ARE justified in questioning your adherence to LGBT rights.

 

[Just Ebola]

Personally I have enough faith in the system and society as a whole to believe that won't happen. At least not on a big enough scale to warrant the massive outcry we're seeing now.

And most of the rest of us haven't forgotten history and the lessons to not repeat it.

When you support a bill that allows a business, housing, or other services to legally kick you to the curb because you're LGBT, I'm sorry, but they ARE justified in questioning your adherence to LGBT rights.

I'm going to have to disagree. You see, I'm very liberal when it comes to personal freedoms. That means the right to be who you are, and unfortunately it includes the right to run one's business to their beliefs even if they aren't fair. You can't have it both ways, freedom is a double-edged sword.

You think you can question my conviction because I understand that not everyone can have their cake and eat it too? Sorry but not everyone can have it both ways. If you want absolute freedom there are some sacrifices. Sure if we lived in a utopia where nobody ever made anyone feel bad that would be great. But it's not the world we live in.

If you see my commitment to personal liberties as an infringement on my LGBT values then I consider that a failing on your part.

 

[Saelune]

@Ebola_chan: Smithnikov, Zhukov, and now altnameJag are all doing way better at proving your points wrong than I could, and I am sure you have enough with 3 people doing that than 4.

But just because you think everything is fine and dandy doesnt mean it is. The way I see it, if you're right, great, everything is fine, whoopdidoo. Nothing gained, nothing lost.

But really think about this, even if you do disagree with me...what if I really am right? Cause that means we both suffer. If I am overreacting, it is not by much, and you are certainly overly dismissive of the damage Trump is causing. If any LGBT people suffer because of these new laws and rules, isnt that too many?

Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it, in this cause, I suppose the "it" is our rights and freedoms.

I have gotten as personal or impersonal as you. We are both LGBT, so I would imagine that is equal footing of personal. I am not claiming you are more guilty of this than I am, or that I am more innocent of it than you are.

 

[Saelune]

@Ebola_chan: Absolute freedom? Absolute freedom is literally anarchy and I dont want that, and Im sure most of us dont. I think all business should by law be required to serve everyone short of people actively being disruptive.

I think people should not be able to say whatever the hell they want, cause some people want to say some pretty terrible things. I think shouting bigoted slurs at people should be illegal honestly.

I very much desire limits on freedoms, mainly the freedom to hurt and hinder other's wellbeing. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Your rights end where my rights begin.

 

[Smithnikov_v1legacy]

I'm going to have to disagree. You see, I'm very liberal when it comes to personal freedoms. That means the right to be who you are, and unfortunately it includes the right to run one's business to their beliefs even if they aren't fair. You can't have it both ways, freedom is a double-edged sword.

We had this discussion as a society. We tried it that way. What we got was widespread Whites-Only services and businesses.

Unlike you, most people aren't eager to return to that. ANd I"m glad for it.

If you see my commitment to personal liberties as an infringement on my LGBT values then I consider that a failing on your part.

Again, I do not see it as a failing when you support the law standing behind you being marginalized and denied public services simply on the basis of your sexuality.

 

[Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)]

okay

guys

should

calm

the

fuck

down

This is kinda getting ridiculous off-topic and rather heated. We have kind of completely forgot about the point of this thread which is net neutrality.

Speaking of which have there been any updates on this?

 

[Just Ebola]

@Ebola_chan: Smithnikov, Zhukov, and now altnameJag are all doing way better at proving your points wrong than I could, and I am sure you have enough with 3 people doing that than 4.

But just because you think everything is fine and dandy doesnt mean it is. The way I see it, if you're right, great, everything is fine, whoopdidoo. Nothing gained, nothing lost.

But really think about this, even if you do disagree with me...what if I really am right? Cause that means we both suffer. If I am overreacting, it is not by much, and you are certainly overly dismissive of the damage Trump is causing. If any LGBT people suffer because of these new laws and rules, isnt that too many?

Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it, in this cause, I suppose the "it" is our rights and freedoms.

I have gotten as personal or impersonal as you. We are both LGBT, so I would imagine that is equal footing of personal. I am not claiming you are more guilty of this than I am, or that I am more innocent of it than you are.

Well I knew I would be going toe-to-toe with quite a few people considering how zealously liberal the Escapist is, so don't let that dissuade you. I still want to hear your justifications for the things you've said.

I've never said everything is fine and dandy, yet again you stoop to putting words in my mouth. My over-arching point here, the thing that you should take away before anything else: maybe stop assuming everything will be shit for the next 4 years when less than a month has passed. I know jumping to conclusions is kind of a mainstay around here, but maybe cool your jets.

"If you are right". We can play with hypotheticals all day and it won't get us anywhere. Here's what I do know, our government protects gay rights as well as any civilized country in history. But a culture that abhors homosexuality is knocking at our doors and we would rather heap blame on the very people who defend us. Just look at the massacre that took place in Orlando, ask the victims who's really to blame.

Except you can't because they're fucking dead. 50+ people were mowed down by extremists because they were gay but everyone is too busy heaping hate on the president because he's not PC enough for everyone's liking to care. If you think I come across as callous when it comes to LGBT rights, it's because quite frankly, we have bigger fish to fry. Where are we when another confused kid is forced off of a roof at gunpoint for being who he is? We're busy squabbling over nothing.

I try to see the bigger picture and get accused of being "not really LGBT" or "cold". So yea, I don't appreciate you dragging me personally into what should be a discussion of ideas.

I'm going to have to disagree. You see, I'm very liberal when it comes to personal freedoms. That means the right to be who you are, and unfortunately it includes the right to run one's business to their beliefs even if they aren't fair. You can't have it both ways, freedom is a double-edged sword.

We had this discussion as a society. We tried it that way. What we got was widespread Whites-Only services and businesses.

Unlike you, most people aren't eager to return to that. ANd I"m glad for it.

If you see my commitment to personal liberties as an infringement on my LGBT values then I consider that a failing on your part.

Again, I do not see it as a failing when you support the law standing behind you being marginalized and denied public services simply on the basis of your sexuality.

When exactly did this social experiment take place, because I certainly don't remember it. Like I already said, homophobic assholes are going to be assholes regardless of what bills are in place. Apply that logic and suddenly my stance makes a lot more sense.

 

[Saelune]

@Ebola_chan: Thats the thing, TWO WEEKS! And it is worse than I feared. How am I supposed to think 4 years wont take us to the worst place possible! Even I thought Trump would have been slower about this, but I was wrong about that.

Maybe the Escapist is so liberal cause being liberal is better. I wont pretend there arent plenty of echo chambers for each side, but this idea that there needs to be a balance of sides is silly. If one side is correct, or more correct, why should it not tip towards that side?

The victims of Orlando can blame an American Citizen.

If I lived in the middle-east, I'd be more worried about Islam. But I live in the US, where it is primarily Christians who oppress us, not Muslims. You can pretend that is not the case, but it is.

How can we help them if we cant even help ourselves anyways? Hard for a meth addict to take the advice of an alcoholic sincerely.

You can look at the bigger picture, but then you ignore the little people who get hurt for it. What use is the bigger picture for those who wont get to appreciate it cause they were stepped on the way there?

This isnt a mere discussion of ideas. This is a discussion of the way our government is headed, our country is headed, in the now. The longer we take to deal with these real issues, the longer they will damage us and that damage tends to linger exponentially.

 

[Smithnikov_v1legacy]

When exactly did this social experiment take place, because I certainly don't remember it.

Pre-Civil Rights era USA. You didn't learn about it in school?

Like I already said, homophobic assholes are going to be assholes regardless of what bills are in place.

Apply that logic and suddenly my stance makes a lot more sense.

It still doesn't, because I find no reason to let the law back their opinion up. I prefer their assholishness to run counter to the law, not have the law supporting them.

 

[Baffle]

You said something to the effect of big cityscapes more eco-friendly than less densely populated areas. I looked it up, and of course it's untrue. But I honestly don't care, this thread has been derailed enough as it is.

'Something to the effect'? I said that spreading the same population as a large city over a much larger area (hence less densely populated but more widely spread) was more environmentally damaging because you need much greater infrastructure.

If you've found something to the contrary I'd be interested to hear it because because it runs against most things I've read on the subject. Where did you look it up?

 

[Just Ebola]

@Ebola_chan: Thats the thing, TWO WEEKS! And it is worse than I feared. How am I supposed to think 4 years wont take us to the worst place possible! Even I thought Trump would have been slower about this, but I was wrong about that.

Maybe the Escapist is so liberal cause being liberal is better. I wont pretend there arent plenty of echo chambers for each side, but this idea that there needs to be a balance of sides is silly. If one side is correct, or more correct, why should it not tip towards that side?

The victims of Orlando can blame an American Citizen.

If I lived in the middle-east, I'd be more worried about Islam. But I live in the US, where it is primarily Christians who oppress us, not Muslims. You can pretend that is not the case, but it is.

How can we help them if we cant even help ourselves anyways? Hard for a meth addict to take the advice of an alcoholic sincerely.

You can look at the bigger picture, but then you ignore the little people who get hurt for it. What use is the bigger picture for those who wont get to appreciate it cause they were stepped on the way there?

This isnt a mere discussion of ideas. This is a discussion of the way our government is headed, our country is headed, in the now. The longer we take to deal with these real issues, the longer they will damage us and that damage tends to linger exponentially.

Your inability to see anything beyond your own perspective is alarming, to say the least. Again, you've ignored almost everything I've said up until now, but let's shelve that for now because I'm beginning to think all the effort I put into my arguments thus far was for nothing. After all, why make a coherent argument when you can just take an entire post and say "this", am I right?

I'm tempted to do that here, but thankfully I'm not that petty. You're kidding yourself if you don't think Obama detractors thought he was ruining the country within his first two weeks. Again, this coming around to your inability to see anything beyond your own two eyeballs.

Are you seriously trying to go with the whole "my way is better so why doesn't everyone think like me?!" approach. I hate to break it to you, but literally everyone thinks their way of thinking is the right one. The culmination of your argument is "liberal is better because I'm a liberal". Well done, truly. And you wonder why America is moving away from that ridiculous way of thinking.

You believe your side is correct because it's your side. Are you really so blind that you can't see how ridiculous that is?

The victims of Orlando can also blame the system that radicalized the shooter. The archaic belief system that has sworn to infiltrate the US through any means possible. Obama and the left absolutely refuse to call these terrorists what they are, even after the attacks are claimed by radical Islamic groups, almost as if they don't want to admit what they are. But that couldn't possibly be, right?

When's the last time Christians perpetrated the largest mass shooting in US history, spurred on by their homophobic beliefs? Oh, never? Fancy that, but by all means keep buying into the lie that Christianity is the cause of all your problems when countless Islamic states execute gays on mass. Honestly, how delusional can one person be?

And don't accuse me of ignoring the little people. I'm arguing in favor of the families that have lost loved ones to the drugs and gang warfare that spill over from Mexico. The people who can't feed their families because illegals take all the jobs from employers who would rather pay illegal wages to immigrants who know they can't report them. How exact can you accuse me of not thinking of the people who get lost in the shuffle of this political clusterfuck?

Awesome, your closing statement is basically "this isn't a discussion of ideas, it's a discussion of... ideas". It doesn't change the fact that you've been nothing but bull-headed and insulting form the beginning, offering nothing substantial in the way of argument and just speaking ignorance and hate at every opportunity.

You hide behind the same banner of righteousness that literally everyone does, and use it as an excuse to vomit half truths and insults in every direction. Respond to the questions I asked earlier, or don't respond at all, I'm getting tired of entertaining you.