Nintendo Failures seem exaggerated

[MeChaNiZ3D]

Some people have a desire to see Nintendo die off because its consoles are casual is essentially what I understand of it. But that said, the Xbone.

 

[VG_Addict]

I do have a question for people who want Nintendo to go third party: Do you think it would make them more money than if they did consoles? Because barring the Wii U, Nintendo consistently makes a profit on hardware. I believe that Nintendo makes 60% of its profits on hardware.

 

[144_v1legacy]

Who said you were talking about me? I'm stating that to claim that all hatred towards Nintendo is irrational is foolish and ignores plenty of valid reasons.

Which....I didn't say, either.

So who are you talking to/about? Because it's not me.

No, but you are implying that Nintendo gets the worst of it. Which isn't even close to true. I'd say they are all rather equal.

I wouldn't. But like I said, you're welcome to your own opinion.

Which makes me beg the question: Why do you even care? It doesn't affect you!

Because I can't stand it when people blatantly lie to each other for virtually no reason except to stroke the egos of those with their preferences. It's a personal fault. Makes me lots of fun at political debates with my friends, as you can imagine.

Fanboy-ism is a disease in virtually every "fandom". It needs to burn.

Yeah, but plenty of people are excited about it. Though that does seem to remain in line with most of what we're hearing about games running on the Xbox One. I do wonder if the PS4 would fare better, but I guess we'll never know.

I expect the PC version to sell better than the Xbone one, if I'm being honest. The PS4 version probably would have done better, too, yes.

Don't worry, CriticKitten. I read the whole thing. I also saw the thing from the Yahtzee review. You've had it tough recently. Making good, well-thought-out cases to prove valid points can sometimes be unrewarding, but I found it enjoyable nonetheless.

OT, I feel a lot of the exaggeration is Escapist-only. Take a peek at Joystiq and it seems to me to be a lot more positive towards the situation.

 

[Saltyk]

Who said you were talking about me? I'm stating that to claim that all hatred towards Nintendo is irrational is foolish and ignores plenty of valid reasons.

Which....I didn't say, either.

So who are you talking to/about? Because it's not me.

Why do I get the feeling you are or want to be a politician?

No, but you are implying that Nintendo gets the worst of it. Which isn't even close to true. I'd say they are all rather equal.

I wouldn't. But like I said, you're welcome to your own opinion.

And, again, I would point out the massive amounts of hatred that Microsoft got not even a year ago. Any hate for Nintendo has never reached that level. And, if you check out Youtubers like Jontron and his friends at Normal Boots, you would realize that people love Nintendo. Some of Jon's most popular videos are about Nintendo.

Which makes me beg the question: Why do you even care? It doesn't affect you!

Because I can't stand it when people blatantly lie to each other for virtually no reason except to stroke the egos of those with their preferences. It's a personal fault. Makes me lots of fun at political debates with my friends, as you can imagine.

Oh, that's why...

I really can't help but feel you really aren't reading the threads here. There is no hatred for Nintendo. Seriously, read the comments here. They are quite reasonable. None of the comments are very hateful or unreasonable.

Fanboy-ism is a disease in virtually every "fandom". It needs to burn.

I won't entirely disagree. But, as I said earlier, only a fan can make good jokes about a work.

Yeah, but plenty of people are excited about it. Though that does seem to remain in line with most of what we're hearing about games running on the Xbox One. I do wonder if the PS4 would fare better, but I guess we'll never know.

I expect the PC version to sell better than the Xbone one, if I'm being honest. The PS4 version probably would have done better, too, yes.

I was actually more curious about if it would reach 1080p and 60 FPS. I expect it will sell better on PC. Actually I hope it does. I don't want the developer to suffer for the dirty tactics of EA and Microsoft.

I do have a question for people who want Nintendo to go third party: Do you think it would make them more money than if they did consoles? Because barring the Wii U, Nintendo consistently makes a profit on hardware. I believe that Nintendo makes 60% of its profits on hardware.

I don't know all the details on how much they would have to pay for licensing on other platforms. I bet Sony or Microsoft would be willing to give them a good deal on that though.

Would they make more? Possibly. I'd have to know all the data on how much they make on hardware, licensing, how much they would have to pay to license, and other such things.

I'll just say it would be very possible. Sega has stayed afloat despite no longer making consoles.

 

[IceForce]

Because barring the Wii U, Nintendo consistently makes a profit on hardware.

barring

consistently

You can't say something is "consistent" if you're going to exclude certain data.

That's not what "consistent" means.

 

[Something Amyss]

Because barring the Wii U, Nintendo consistently makes a profit on hardware.

We debunked that one a couple times for you, up to and including sources.

I believe that Nintendo makes 60% of its profits on hardware.

[citation needed]

 

[IceForce]

I believe that Nintendo makes 60% of its profits on hardware.

Unless you can back this up with a source, what you "believe" is completely irrelevant.

 

[Saltyk]

Because barring the Wii U, Nintendo consistently makes a profit on hardware.

We debunked that one a couple times for you, up to and including sources.

I believe that Nintendo makes 60% of its profits on hardware.

[citation needed]

To be fair, they made massive profits off the Wii. Though, I'm not one to suggest that those profits should be seen as an get out of jail free card for the current debacle with the Wii U.

Of course, if 60% of their profits DID come from the hardware sales, that would actually be unhealthy. Other console developers always sold the console at a loss and tried to make it up in software. If 60% of Nintendo profits came from hardware, that would suggest that software sales were very poor. Even with the profitability of the Wii.

 

[Something Amyss]

To be fair, they made massive profits off the Wii. Though, I'm not one to suggest that those profits should be seen as an get out of jail free card for the current debacle with the Wii U.

Of course, if 60% of their profits DID come from the hardware sales, that would actually be unhealthy. Other console developers always sold the console at a loss and tried to make it up in software. If 60% of Nintendo profits came from hardware, that would suggest that software sales were very poor. Even with the profitability of the Wii.

His claim was that they consistently make profits on hardware. This goes further with his 60% claim. I know the Wii made money, and I know their hardware is sometimes sold at a profit. It's not true of the Wii U or 3DS (at least, it hasn't been true of the 3DS; that may have changed), and for a while wasn't true of some DS models. I can't remember which ones. The Gamecube fluctuated, etc. etc.

This isn't the mark of consistency. And more to the point, he knows better because we've been around on this before. I'd go quote myself if I could remember the threads in question.

"Nintendo sells their hardware at a profit" is basically a meme Nintendo fans use to justify their underpowered consoles. Ironically, to defend why a company with more solvent assets than the other manufacturers cant afford to take a loss. Except they can and sometimes do.

Incidentally, taking a bigger hit on the Wii U might have been a smarter move. Or they could have just skipped out on trying to capture the tablet market entirely, since tablet gaming has its own base and thousands of devices....

 

[VG_Addict]

To be fair, they made massive profits off the Wii. Though, I'm not one to suggest that those profits should be seen as an get out of jail free card for the current debacle with the Wii U.

Of course, if 60% of their profits DID come from the hardware sales, that would actually be unhealthy. Other console developers always sold the console at a loss and tried to make it up in software. If 60% of Nintendo profits came from hardware, that would suggest that software sales were very poor. Even with the profitability of the Wii.

His claim was that they consistently make profits on hardware. This goes further with his 60% claim. I know the Wii made money, and I know their hardware is sometimes sold at a profit. It's not true of the Wii U or 3DS (at least, it hasn't been true of the 3DS; that may have changed), and for a while wasn't true of some DS models. I can't remember which ones. The Gamecube fluctuated, etc. etc.

This isn't the mark of consistency. And more to the point, he knows better because we've been around on this before. I'd go quote myself if I could remember the threads in question.

"Nintendo sells their hardware at a profit" is basically a meme Nintendo fans use to justify their underpowered consoles. Ironically, to defend why a company with more solvent assets than the other manufacturers cant afford to take a loss. Except they can and sometimes do.

Incidentally, taking a bigger hit on the Wii U might have been a smarter move. Or they could have just skipped out on trying to capture the tablet market entirely, since tablet gaming has its own base and thousands of devices....

No, they sold the NES, the SNES, the N64, and the Gamecube at a profit.

Nintendo's consoles being underpowered only started with the Wii.

 

[Something Amyss]

No, they sold the NES, the SNES, the N64, and the Gamecube at a profit.

Already been addressed.

Nintendo's consoles being underpowered only started with the Wii.

Of course, they did other things before that. Like stick to expensive carts when disc media was cheaper, or minidiscs that spin backwards because reasons....

 

[VG_Addict]

No, they sold the NES, the SNES, the N64, and the Gamecube at a profit.

Already been addressed.

Nintendo's consoles being underpowered only started with the Wii.

Of course, they did other things before that. Like stick to expensive carts when disc media was cheaper, or minidiscs that spin backwards because reasons....

Except even then, the Gamecube was more powerful than the PS2, and the N64 was on par with the PSX.

 

[IceForce]

Of course, if 60% of their profits DID come from the hardware sales, that would actually be unhealthy. Other console developers always sold the console at a loss and tried to make it up in software. If 60% of Nintendo profits came from hardware, that would suggest that software sales were very poor. Even with the profitability of the Wii.

That "60%" claim is highly dubious. And I notice the poster in question STILL hasn't provided a source for it.

Of course, if 60% of their profits DID come from the hardware sales, that would actually be unhealthy.

Exactly.

Not only that, but presumably people purchase a Nintendo console, and then purchase a number of Nintendo games to play on it.
So one would expect, by simple numbers alone, the games themselves would make up the lion's share of the profit Nintendo receives.

If not, it means a significant number of people are buying Nintendo consoles, and then not buying any games to play on them.

Maybe they're using them as paperweights or doorstops, or something.

 

[Saltyk]

SNIP

I can't help, but feel we've gone as far as we can on this. I won't convince you this claim of "Nintendo Hate" is overblown, and you'll never convince me it isn't.

I was actually more curious about if it would reach 1080p and 60 FPS.

The game's PC version is, by a large margin, superior graphically.

Interesting. But I was literally wondering if the PS4 would have been able to produce 1080p at 60FPS. I doubt it would manage the high end graphics, but I also kinda doubt most PCs will either.

To be fair, they made massive profits off the Wii. Though, I'm not one to suggest that those profits should be seen as an get out of jail free card for the current debacle with the Wii U.

Of course, if 60% of their profits DID come from the hardware sales, that would actually be unhealthy. Other console developers always sold the console at a loss and tried to make it up in software. If 60% of Nintendo profits came from hardware, that would suggest that software sales were very poor. Even with the profitability of the Wii.

His claim was that they consistently make profits on hardware. This goes further with his 60% claim. I know the Wii made money, and I know their hardware is sometimes sold at a profit. It's not true of the Wii U or 3DS (at least, it hasn't been true of the 3DS; that may have changed), and for a while wasn't true of some DS models. I can't remember which ones. The Gamecube fluctuated, etc. etc.

Honestly, I'm not sure of a case by case basis. I'm well aware that most consoles, especially at launch are not sold at a profit. In fact, I was thinking that the Wii was special because it was sold at profit at launch. Which would lend credence to your claim of consistency or lack thereof.

This isn't the mark of consistency. And more to the point, he knows better because we've been around on this before. I'd go quote myself if I could remember the threads in question.

I believe you. You made similar statements alluding to previous encounters with each other.

"Nintendo sells their hardware at a profit" is basically a meme Nintendo fans use to justify their underpowered consoles. Ironically, to defend why a company with more solvent assets than the other manufacturers cant afford to take a loss. Except they can and sometimes do.

To be fair, several Nintendo consoles were rather powerful. The SNES was superior to the Genesis. The N64 was a very powerful system as well. More powerful than the Playstation, but held back by storage issues with the cartridge system. Even the Gamecube was a powerful machine. In fact, the PS2, the best selling console of all time, was the weakest system of it's generation. It's really only in more recent years that the Nintendo consoles have been weaker.

Incidentally, taking a bigger hit on the Wii U might have been a smarter move. Or they could have just skipped out on trying to capture the tablet market entirely, since tablet gaming has its own base and thousands of devices....

I will admit that if the Wii U was cheaper, it would be more appealing. But, as I said earlier, I'm not willing to pay $300 for the few games that do interest me. Not sure how much I would be willing, but $300 is too much.

And the tablet controller seems like a waste as the system only supports one controller at a time. Supporting multiple controllers could make for some interesting games. Like a Four Swords style game on the Wii U. As is, they limited the tablet and that seems like a weakness.

 

[VG_Addict]

OT: I have had faith in Nintendo all the time, and laugh at people when they go all joy-joy about Nintendo's shortcomings. CriticKitten's posts are on point about MS and Sony's losses and peeps tend to look the other way. Nintendo's reports a loss? Well, they should just give up entirely, go 3rd party and then they can make a profit off their Mario and Zelda and others. They can even get a bigger fanbase!!

Which I always found funny. If they hate Nintendo so much, why would they want Nintendo to go third party?

The answer, of course, is because a lot of those "haters" really just want to play Nintendo's games (because they're generally some of the highest quality games on the market in their respective genres), but don't want to be associated with the negative stigma of owning a Nintendo console because "they're for babies". Well, tough. Part of being grown up means you stop caring about whether or not something is considered "for children", and you just enjoy what you choose to enjoy.

Who says they hate Nintendo? Why does stating that Nintendo is failing with the Wii U mean that you hate Nintendo? Since when is this a situation where you are either for or against Nintendo? No, being a grown up means you understand that a person can state that something was done poorly without meaning that you hate it and those associated with it.

Personally, I don't care about Nintendo. And there are more threads talking about how people hate Nintendo than threads hating on Nintendo. When the Escapist runs an article talking about something that Nintendo is struggling with, the NDF jumps up and claims that it's because the Escapist hates Nintendo and is trying to push an agenda that is "anti-Nintendo". This is despite the fact that several contributors on the site are very fond of Nintendo, such as MovieBob.

But when they run an article stating that Sony or Microsoft are having some issue, no one claims they are pushing an "anti-Sony" or "anti-Microsoft" agenda. And comments run the gambit of worry, support for the company, and commendation for them on each article. But only Nintendo fans seem to think there is some bias against Nintendo. That says a lot about the fans, if you ask me.

The Wii U is struggling. Yes, it has sold about as well as either of the consoles that Sony and Microsoft have released. But with a year head start, it should be outpacing them by much more. As is, I bet PS4 will overtake the Wii U in Worldwide sales as soon as we hear Japanese says numbers for the system. And the Xbox One is doing pretty well, too. Having Worldwide sales that outstrip the Wii U at this same point in it's life cycle.

I have no interest in the Wii U. I had no interest in the Wii (I really hate motion controls). And I can count the number of Wii games that caught my interest on one hand. Currently, the only game on the Wii U that looks good to me is X. Damn, does X look good. I'd love to see it on PS4. But there are plenty of games that won't come to Wii U that I am even more excited for.

With limited income, I can only afford one console. Sorry, but I'm not buying the Wii U for X. Mario holds no sway over me. The only classic Nintendo franchise that interests me is Zelda. Still not enough to warrant a Wii U. So, if Nintendo went third party like Sega, I would be happy. I'm not holding my breath, though.

Here's the deal, I think they messed up with the Wii U. Badly. I talked to someone, who owned a Wii, and didn't not know the Wii U was a new console. He thought it was an add on. When he asked me what the console looked like, I had to admit that I didn't even know. (I now know it looks about like a car CD Player) That is not a good thing. It's a sign of a failure in advertisement when people don't know what you are selling or what it looks like.

For the record, Microsoft failed with it's initial announcement. And their PR since then has been abysmal. Sony has had issues with some of the launch consoles messing up. My own console fried on me within a half hour (Admittedly, Sony was very good about the customer support by all accounts).

Every company makes mistakes. Reporting and commenting on it does not equate hate!

The XB1 isn't doing well right now. It only sold 143k units last month.

And you only need to look at the comments section of news articles or forum topics about said articles to see people claiming that Nintendo needs to go third party, calling them kiddy, or even expressing outright glee at their misfortunes.

 

[Something Amyss]

Except even then, the Gamecube was more powerful than the PS2, and the N64 was on par with the PSX.

Nobody actually said they weren't. Did you even read what I wrote?

 

[Saltyk]

Of course, if 60% of their profits DID come from the hardware sales, that would actually be unhealthy. Other console developers always sold the console at a loss and tried to make it up in software. If 60% of Nintendo profits came from hardware, that would suggest that software sales were very poor. Even with the profitability of the Wii.

That "60%" claim is highly dubious. And I notice the poster in question STILL hasn't provided a source for it.

Of course, if 60% of their profits DID come from the hardware sales, that would actually be unhealthy.

Exactly.

Not only that, but presumably people purchase a Nintendo console, and then purchase a number of Nintendo games to play on it.
So one would expect, by simple numbers alone, the games themselves would make up the lion's share of the profit Nintendo receives.

If not, it means a significant number of people are buying Nintendo consoles, and then not buying any games to play on them.

Maybe they're using them as paperweights or doorstops, or something.

Don't forget other sources of income. Pokemon is going strong as a show. They have to be making money off that. I would think it would be more than 1% if Nintendo is still making it or has licensed it to be made. I'm sure they make little Nintendo licensed toys and such, too. I'm sure I could list plenty of things that should be making Nintendo a profit. The more you think about it, the less likely the 60% number is factual.

My own company has major contracts with customers and no one customer, branch, or section of our business makes 60% of the profit. That would be a sign that you need to restructure and cut some fat. Something isn't pulling it's weight.

 

[Something Amyss]

[
To be fair, several Nintendo consoles were rather powerful. The SNES was superior to the Genesis. The N64 was a very powerful system as well.

We're also not talking an era where they were trying to sell at a profit.
I will admit that if the Wii U was cheaper, it would be more appealing. But, as I said earlier, I'm not willing to pay $300 for the few games that do interest me. Not sure how much I would be willing, but $300 is too much.
[/quote]

I was thinking more same price point but more power, since that's one of the things that seems to have driven off the third party devs and limited the reason to buy one.

But a cheaper one might work, too.