Nintendo Switch....DOA

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Yoshi178

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Ezekiel said:
Yoshi178 said:
BabyfartsMcgeezaks said:
Yoshi178 said:
Fonejackerjon said:
Sony and Microsoft must be laughing all the way to the bank.
What's Sony laughing for? last i checked the PS4 has been out since 2013 and still only has bloodborne.

Switch is getting Zelda BOTW and Bomberman R on launch day so that already beats the PS4 library.
The PS4 library is laughable indeed but there's also Uncharted 4, Until Dawn, Killzone Shadowfall, Infamous Second Son, The Last Guardian....And upcoming ones like Horizon Zero Dawn, The Last of Us 2, God of War 4, New Spider-Man, Days Gone, Detroit: Become Human.

If all these games are actually any good is another thing.
Like i said, still only has bloodborne.
You don't even know the Souls series, so I don't know why you're acting like that "dudebro" game is the only notable thing on the console. My list of games to justify a PS4 is getting fairly big now, and I don't even like PlayStation. Truth is, most adult players are tired of Nintendo's old IPs or never cared. When Nintendo experimented (I mean really experimented. Not just worked on little things on the side.) they came up with huge IPs (Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Pokemon, etc). Doing so again would revitalize their brand.
i may not have played Dark Souls but i do know that even if Bethesda does put the trilogy on switch i still wouldn't give a shit about it all just like i don't give a shit about Skyrim special edition coming to the Switch.

literally the only reason i would even want games like that to come to the Switch is to help the Switch get sales and support for the future from 3rd parties.
 

Yoshi178

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BabyfartsMcgeezaks said:
Yoshi178 said:
BabyfartsMcgeezaks said:
Yoshi178 said:
Fonejackerjon said:
Sony and Microsoft must be laughing all the way to the bank.
What's Sony laughing for? last i checked the PS4 has been out since 2013 and still only has bloodborne.

Switch is getting Zelda BOTW and Bomberman R on launch day so that already beats the PS4 library.
The PS4 library is laughable indeed but there's also Uncharted 4, Until Dawn, Killzone Shadowfall, Infamous Second Son, The Last Guardian....And upcoming ones like Horizon Zero Dawn, The Last of Us 2, God of War 4, New Spider-Man, Days Gone, Detroit: Become Human.

If all these games are actually any good is another thing.
Like i said, still only has bloodborne.
Ok and all Switch has is Mario.

Xenoblade 2 and Splatoon 2 shit all over Mario and Legend of Zelda
 

Fox12

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BabyfartsMcgeezaks said:
Yoshi178 said:
Fonejackerjon said:
Sony and Microsoft must be laughing all the way to the bank.
What's Sony laughing for? last i checked the PS4 has been out since 2013 and still only has bloodborne.

Switch is getting Zelda BOTW and Bomberman R on launch day so that already beats the PS4 library.
The PS4 library is laughable indeed but there's also Uncharted 4, Until Dawn, Killzone Shadowfall, Infamous Second Son, The Last Guardian....And upcoming ones like Horizon Zero Dawn, The Last of Us 2, God of War 4, New Spider-Man, Days Gone, Detroit: Become Human.

If all these games are actually any good is another thing.
Really? I've got more games I want to buy then I know what to do with. Persona 5, Nier Automata, The Last of Us 2, The Last Guardian, Gravity Rush 1&2... And that's not even counting the library of games I already own. Those are mostly the games coming out in the next three months. The PS4 library feel more robust then the PS2.

The Switch would make an excellent secondary console of the Nintendo can get the ball rolling. I like the titles they announced. It's a surprisingly solid lineup.
 

Mcgeezaks

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Fox12 said:
BabyfartsMcgeezaks said:
Yoshi178 said:
Fonejackerjon said:
Sony and Microsoft must be laughing all the way to the bank.
What's Sony laughing for? last i checked the PS4 has been out since 2013 and still only has bloodborne.

Switch is getting Zelda BOTW and Bomberman R on launch day so that already beats the PS4 library.
The PS4 library is laughable indeed but there's also Uncharted 4, Until Dawn, Killzone Shadowfall, Infamous Second Son, The Last Guardian....And upcoming ones like Horizon Zero Dawn, The Last of Us 2, God of War 4, New Spider-Man, Days Gone, Detroit: Become Human.

If all these games are actually any good is another thing.
Really? I've got more games I want to buy then I know what to do with. Persona 5, Nier Automata, The Last of Us 2, The Last Guardian, Gravity Rush 1&2... And that's not even counting the library of games I already own. Those are mostly the games coming out in the next three months. The PS4 library feel more robust then the PS2.

The Switch would make an excellent secondary console of the Nintendo can get the ball rolling. I like the titles they announced. It's a surprisingly solid lineup.
They are meh to me, to be honest. The only games I know I'll be getting for my PS4 in the future is TLOU2 and the Crash Bandicoot remasters.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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What I would love to see from Nintendo: A switch "mini" for those people who don't care for the portable features of the switch.

Take all the internals from the Switch, get rid of the battery, get rid of the dock, get rid of the screen, put it all in a tiny case, package it with the "pro" controller, charge $200.

That would be a DAMN good move on nintendo's part. It undercuts the current consoles, and brings in the people who don't care to faff about with its whole mobile gaming gimmick but who want those first party nintendo games.
 

WeepingAngels

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cathou said:
ffronw said:
09philj said:
it has a good launch line up
Worth noting that so far the launch lineup has 2 games confirmed. Zelda and 1,2 Switch. That's it. Everything else is post-launch unless something changes.
i have the feeling that they will push really hard to have skyrim and fifa 17 for launch day. thoses games are already out, so it might not be that hard to release it winthin 3 months...
Is that Skyrim Special Edition or Skyrim Last Gen Edition?
 

Gordon_4_v1legacy

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Foolery said:
"So guys, the internet is really excited for our new console. What can we do about it?"

"Charge more for the console than current competitors with better hardware and larger libraries, price the controllers higher than any reasonable person would ever believe, and start charging for online play for a machine that is more than likely going to be a secondary console."

"Perfect!"
I was a bit confused at that but then I checked Wal-Mart's U.S. site and saw that a baseline PS4 can be had for $250 new. I can only get those prices for pre-owned units and I make a point never to buy refurbished hardware if I can avoid it.

Yeah the Switch is a bit expensive, the Aus version is like $470 - and that's still almost a hundred beans more than a baseline XBone or PS4. I'm still interested, but so help me the only thing that's gonna sell me is a nice new, massive open world Pokemon game but my understanding of that is I've got Buckley's of it happening so there we go :p
 

Samtemdo8_v1legacy

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Ezekiel said:
Yoshi178 said:
Ezekiel said:
Multiplayer paywalls shouldn't be a thing on any console.
Blame Micro$oft
If you continue reading, you'll see that I did blame Microsoft. But Sony, Nintendo and console players aren't free from blame.
Here's the thing.

The reason why they are payed services is for the service to get better.

You want to know why Xbox Live is considered the best Online Service ever? Why the multiplayer there is better than Sony's and Nintendo?

Because of the money. You think Microsoft is takig all that Xbox Live subscription money just to buy new Private Jets?

They are using that money also make the service even better.

Sony PS3 Online Service sucked initially because it was free, which is why they went the payed model because hosting "quality" online service for free was harder than they thought.
 

Maximum Bert

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altnameJag said:
Seriously, Nintendo's never played the power game, and if I recall correctly, none of their consoles or handhelds ever beat out their competitors in that realm.
The SNES and N64 did also the gamecube was more powerful than the PS2 and the NES was a step up as well from what was available at the time. The handhelds they have had very little competition. Basically they were interested in keeping up with their competitors (or even esclipsing them) in the power race until the Wii.

Samtemdo8 said:
You think Microsoft is takig all that Xbox Live subscription money just to buy new Private Jets?
As far as I can tell yeah pretty much.

OT: Switch hasnt really got me that excited as honestly I have lost a lot of interest in their IPs over the years so it may very well be the first Nintendo console I do not get if their is not more new Ips shown (either 3rd or 1st party).

Also paid online is a bad idea always was always will be MS got away with murder introducing that ridiculousness and now Sony and Nintendo can introduce it without people batting an eyelid as for the whole it makes the experience better well in my experience it does not at least not in a way that would justify the cost.

Region free is great news but as it stands the only game I am even remotely interested in is Ultra SF2 but I am not buying a console for that alone.

Tech wise I think it has potential but it seriously lacking on the game front atm. My WiiU was basically just a Bayonetta 2 machine so hopefully the Switch doesnt share the same fate with devs dropping support.

I dont think its DOA though I feel this time it does actually have potential I am just unsure Nintendo will be able to realise that potential. Honestly I think the whole company needs a shake up. They are a far cry from their NES/SNES heyday.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Maximum Bert said:
altnameJag said:
Seriously, Nintendo's never played the power game, and if I recall correctly, none of their consoles or handhelds ever beat out their competitors in that realm.
The SNES and N64 did also the gamecube was more powerful than the PS2 and the NES was a step up as well from what was available at the time. The handhelds they have had very little competition. Basically they were interested in keeping up with their competitors (or even esclipsing them) in the power race until the Wii.
It's cheating to play the power game by releasing a console a couple years after your competitor, which is what happened with the SNES. Nintendo's console that came out around the same time was the TurboGrafx-16, which was distinctly worse than the Genesis. Same goes for the Game Cube vs the PS2. The GameCube came out a year later at the same time as the X-box, which was superior power-wise.

And while the N64 was technically more powerful than the PS1, other design limitations tended to render the point moot.

Meanwhile, the Gameboy released without significant competition, and the GameGear that came out later was significantly more powerful. Hell, most most of the competitors to the Gmaeboy were more powerful, yet Nintendo didn't see a reason to upgrade for nearly a decade. The PSP was more powerful than the DS, and the Vita was more powerful than the 3ds. It didn't help them.

These day's we're hitting diminishing returns with graphics. Art design is more important than raw power, and Nintendo excels at that.
 

Samtemdo8_v1legacy

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Maximum Bert said:
altnameJag said:
Seriously, Nintendo's never played the power game, and if I recall correctly, none of their consoles or handhelds ever beat out their competitors in that realm.
The SNES and N64 did also the gamecube was more powerful than the PS2 and the NES was a step up as well from what was available at the time. The handhelds they have had very little competition. Basically they were interested in keeping up with their competitors (or even esclipsing them) in the power race until the Wii.

Samtemdo8 said:
You think Microsoft is takig all that Xbox Live subscription money just to buy new Private Jets?
As far as I can tell yeah pretty much.

OT: Switch hasnt really got me that excited as honestly I have lost a lot of interest in their IPs over the years so it may very well be the first Nintendo console I do not get if their is not more new Ips shown (either 3rd or 1st party).

Also paid online is a bad idea always was always will be MS got away with murder introducing that ridiculousness and now Sony and Nintendo can introduce it without people batting an eyelid as for the whole it makes the experience better well in my experience it does not at least not in a way that would justify the cost.

Region free is great news but as it stands the only game I am even remotely interested in is Ultra SF2 but I am not buying a console for that alone.

Tech wise I think it has potential but it seriously lacking on the game front atm. My WiiU was basically just a Bayonetta 2 machine so hopefully the Switch doesnt share the same fate with devs dropping support.

I dont think its DOA though I feel this time it does actually have potential I am just unsure Nintendo will be able to realise that potential. Honestly I think the whole company needs a shake up. They are a far cry from their NES/SNES heyday.
Explain then why is the service still shitty for you paid or not paid?
 

WoJ

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I've had some time to reflect on this and I still think that the pricing structure on this is just wrong. It has nothing to do with Nintendo not being able to do the things Sony and Microsoft do, but you have to look at Nintendo's value proposition at the price point they are coming to market. The average consumer knows that they aren't going to get everything they want in terms of games on a Nintendo console. Sony and MS have established themselves as the two platforms where you go to get your mainstream gaming fix. They each have their own limited list of exclusives and you add that into your decision making. But ultimately third party games, which make up a bulk of the available games are available on either platform. So the difference between the two systems then becomes which exclusives you want. We all know this. Nintendo doesn't have this. And hasn't for a long time. They have their 1st party lineup, fun family friendly/party games and some niche games (mostly in the RPG space) that aren't really a mainstream appeal. Nintendo is a supplemental console meant to round out a game library, unless of course you are a huge Nintendo fanboy or family that just wants something simple and family friendly and/or social. I just don't think the market for the latter is that big.

So what does this mean? At that price point, it means that like or not the Switch is competing with the PS4 and Xbox One whether or not it wants to believe it is. It is trying to convince people who own those systems that it will be a good compliment to what they already have. And that market will eventually pick up the Switch at some point. Me personally, I am sold on the Switch, but not until a price drop or bundle deal. I suspect many others feel the same way.

I don't get caught up in the debates about power and consoles, etc, but I think in this case it matters, especially when the cost to get a new PS4 or Xbox One is the same as Nintendo's new system which is less powerful, has fewer games, and doesn't have the mainstream 3rd party stuff PS4 and Xbox One are getting. And if I'm a casual gamer, unless I LOVE Nintendo 1st party stuff why am I going to pick up a Switch over a PS4 or Xbox One? Why get a Switch when you can get a PS4 with a bundled game for the same price as the Switch, and the Switch is inferior hardware? There's literally no reason to when looking at the price point between the two systems. And in 2017 most casual gamers want to get the big AAA stuff like CoD, Madden, Assassin's Creed, etc.

The handheld aspect of the Switch is still being undersold in my opinion, but that all comes back to price. It's too damn expensive for the handheld market. The 3ds didn't sell well until its price was cut. And while I believe the Switch could ultimately replace the 3ds, it won't at that price.

Then there's paid online. I don't necessarily have a problem with it. Sony and Microsoft do it. Nintendo has the right to do it. I don't like the practice but it is what it is. But it comes back to value proposition. While we don't know the price point yet, there is nothing I have seen that leads me to believe Nintendo will charge less than what Sony or MS do for PSN or Live. And what does that get me with Nintendo? A chance to play Mario Kart and Splatoon online. And a couple of ROMS I have access to for a month on 30 year old games. Yippie. If I am paying for PSN or Live I at least am getting multiple free games a month that I have access to as long as I remain subscribed, and in the case of Live I get to keep 360 games forever. And on Xbox and PS4 I am at least getting access to games like Destiny, CoD, Battlefield, Madden, you know, the mainstream stuff to play online. It may be a shitty business practice but in comparison the value proposition between Sony/MS and Nintendo is huge when it comes to pay to play online. Unless Nintendo is charging $20 a year or less (which they won't) to play online it's a total joke.

Everything with this system is just expensive relative to the competition in terms of what you are getting for it. It can still be successful and may do very well. I think it will in the long-term honestly. But right now it's massively overpriced and underpowered relative to its competition with a much smaller games library, more specifically a much smaller 3rd party games library that the market cares about. And that doesn't even touch on the expensive accessories and lunacy that is tying voice chat to a smartphone app rather than a headset and Mic. It's just really stupid business decisions all around that show Nintendo doesn't know what planet they are on.
 

Foolery

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Gordon_4 said:
Foolery said:
"So guys, the internet is really excited for our new console. What can we do about it?"

"Charge more for the console than current competitors with better hardware and larger libraries, price the controllers higher than any reasonable person would ever believe, and start charging for online play for a machine that is more than likely going to be a secondary console."

"Perfect!"
I was a bit confused at that but then I checked Wal-Mart's U.S. site and saw that a baseline PS4 can be had for $250 new. I can only get those prices for pre-owned units and I make a point never to buy refurbished hardware if I can avoid it.

Yeah the Switch is a bit expensive, the Aus version is like $470 - and that's still almost a hundred beans more than a baseline XBone or PS4. I'm still interested, but so help me the only thing that's gonna sell me is a nice new, massive open world Pokemon game but my understanding of that is I've got Buckley's of it happening so there we go :p
Yeah, you Australians really get screwed over on game prices.
I live in Canada, so the switch is 399. You can get a Xbox One for 249, with a game or a PS4 at 299, with a game.
A Switch at 399, with a 79.99 copy of Zelda, after tax is about 541.25. Over 500 bucks.
 

Samtemdo8_v1legacy

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Ezekiel said:
Samtemdo8 said:
Ezekiel said:
Yoshi178 said:
Ezekiel said:
Multiplayer paywalls shouldn't be a thing on any console.
Blame Micro$oft
If you continue reading, you'll see that I did blame Microsoft. But Sony, Nintendo and console players aren't free from blame.
Here's the thing.

The reason why they are payed services is for the service to get better.

You want to know why Xbox Live is considered the best Online Service ever? Why the multiplayer there is better than Sony's and Nintendo?

Because of the money. You think Microsoft is takig all that Xbox Live subscription money just to buy new Private Jets?

They are using that money also make the service even better.

Sony PS3 Online Service sucked initially because it was free, which is why they went the payed model because hosting "quality" online service for free was harder than they thought.
Then tell me, why do I get free cloud storage for my saves and free multiplayer on Steam, Origin and Uplay? The PS4's network apparently still has all the same problems that bugged me about the PS3's, such as not allowing you to change names, not allowing you to change regions and stability issues. The servers in my PS3 games weren't even run by Sony, so I don't see why they should be able to charge for the multiplayer. That's the way it is with almost all games. The developers and publishers run their own servers.

I play multiplayer games infrequently. What do I do with a subscription when I don't want to play online? Most of my games don't even have multiplayer. I want to be able to play my games at any time without worrying about using a subscription for its duration.
Because Steam is making money of a selling games on thier store, and thier using that money to make thier online service well and the fact that Steam is a leading Digiital Distribution center for games.

Valve makes so much money with Steam that they don't need an Online Subscription.
 

Fiz_The_Toaster

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Just like PS Plus, Nintendo is gonna have to really sell me on their paid online subscription, and right now they are doing a shitty job of it. I know their online store presence is a joke and a massive pain in the ass, but they're really gonna have to address it sooner rather than later.

Having said that, I'm far more interested in the Switch than I was with both the Wii and the WiiU, and I will most likely get one at some point. Not at launch though.

That new Mario game looks pretty bitchin' though.

I haven't said that about a Mario game in fucking years.
 

stroopwafel

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Ezekiel said:
The servers in my PS3 games weren't even run by Sony, so I don't see why they should be able to charge for the multiplayer.
The reason they can sell PS4 so cheap(and before that PS3 after the price cut) is that Sony's profit model shifted from hardware sales to subscription fees. For years PS3s have been sold at a loss so if consumers aren't willing to pay a higher price for the console itself than profit need to come from somewhere else.

Anyways I'm pretty underwhelmed by the launch(and near future) line-up of the Switch. The new Zelda game looks cool(and probably an as strong a launch title you can have) but isn't even exclusive. Other than Zelda there wasn't really any game that would make me consider buying a Switch. Was hoping for a new Metroid perhaps and some genuinely good third party exclusives. None of these things other than a host of features I don't care for. So far the line-up is pretty weak.