Norway Massacre: Anders Breivik sentenced 21 years

[Muspelheim]

Good news. It's probably the best solution, and 21 years most likely equals "forever" in practice. And if he ever does get released, I doubt he'd live very long outside the walls, or very comfortably.

Well, now with that out of the way, how about we begin to dismantle that last big elephant in the room? Namely WHY he did what he did and to what end.

There is a reason why a reasonably sane human being decide to commit these horrible crimes, be it political or personal. I believe this would be the time to attempt to find the true reason behind, and expose exactly what he was hoping to achieve.

 

[Patrick Buck]

No way is he spending 21 years in prison.
He's staying there, for the rest of his life. He killed to many people, and shows no remorse, no empathy, nothing. He's staying there.

 

[MatsVS]

Ha, I knew someone couldn't make this thread without someone twisting it around to be about how America is bad and full of crime and stupid Americans!

Well, when americans for some reason believe they are in a position to judge how we do things in Norway, (god forbid, right, that there is any subject ever where their opinion isn't valued or needed) it seems only fair to point out how beyond the pale fucked up that country is.

Like I said in the other thread, as someone who lost friends that day, I am content with the sentence, and I am looking forward to moving on.

 

[WoW Killer]

Ha, I knew someone couldn't make this thread without someone twisting it around to be about how America is bad and full of crime and stupid Americans!

You mean you can't make this thread without hearing somebody calling for harsher sentencing, particularly the death penalty, with the voice of superiority. If I hadn't seen that I wouldn't have posted what I did. For the sake of our own nations, Norway's justice system should be viewed with respect, intrigue and possibly envy, not with ridicule and disbelief.

yes, and the US is about 60 times larger than the US, magnify Norway up to the USs size? you have about 37.8 murders per 100,000 inhabitants.

Norways system sure is wonderful!

Are you serious?

 

[Naeras]

Population of Norway = 5 million
Population of America = 315 million

More people = more crimes.

America's legal system is in shambles, but those numbers count for something.

The figures are per 100,000 inhabitants.

yes, and the US is about 60 times larger than the US, magnify Norway up to the USs size? you have about 37.8 murders per 100,000 inhabitants.

Norways system sure is wonderful!

*edit*
I read the post above this, no need for me to be mean anymore. D:

 

[Risingblade]

Ha, I knew someone couldn't make this thread without someone twisting it around to be about how America is bad and full of crime and stupid Americans!

Well, when americans for some reason believe they are in a position to judge how we do things in Norway, (god forbid, right, that there is any subject ever where their opinion isn't valued or needed) it seems only fair to point out how beyond the pale fucked up that country is.

Like I said in the other thread, as someone who lost friends that day, I am content with the sentence, and I am looking forward to moving on.

You know it's not only Americans who do this...

 

[DracoSuave]

EDIT: Never mind, someone else got this. CARRY ON!

 

[NLS]

We can't simply change the laws to fit our situation. The max is 21 years, and no death penalty. If we start changing laws on a case-to-case basis, who knows where our judicial system will end up?

But yeah, they'll probably find good reason to keep him locked in for extended periods of time since he could still be considered a threat.

Summed up, I agree that he should be locked in as long as possible through the use of Norwegian law, but I do not condone taking actions that defeat the whole purpose of having a law. This is a western society in 2012, not the wild west or the grim middle ages.

 

[DracoSuave]

Norway's legal system seems to work brilliantly in general, but I do think that sometimes there is no rehabilitating people, and this is one of those cases. I know that he won't ever get out in actuality, but his cell is a little too cushy.

Can't honestly say that.

He hasn't even served 21 days of his sentance, never mind 21 years.

Look, he is brash, young, and stupid. But in two decades he won't be young. And he might not be brash OR stupid. He may be a completely different person by that time happens at which point yes, there is hope for rehabilitation.

Maybe he'll change, maybe he won't. I don't know the guy and there's no way for me to say if he will. I trust in the Norway system's judgement on this matter; after all their system seems to work very well!

Ultimately, it's up to him.

 

[MelasZepheos_v1legacy]

Setting aside the fact that the article explicitly states he could be held indefinitely for his crimes...

Justice is the fair application of the law to all. If the law is that the maximum sentence he will serve is 21 years, then it would be unjust to sentence him for longer.

Punishments cannot be dished out and changed as the public outcry sees fit, that's no way to maintain a justice system.

 

[Chairman Miaow]

Norway's legal system seems to work brilliantly in general, but I do think that sometimes there is no rehabilitating people, and this is one of those cases. I know that he won't ever get out in actuality, but his cell is a little too cushy.

Can't honestly say that.

He hasn't even served 21 days of his sentance, never mind 21 years.

Look, he is brash, young, and stupid. But in two decades he won't be young. And he might not be brash OR stupid. He may be a completely different person by that time happens at which point yes, there is hope for rehabilitation.

Maybe he'll change, maybe he won't. I don't know the guy and there's no way for me to say if he will. I trust in the Norway system's judgement on this matter; after all their system seems to work very well!

Ultimately, it's up to him.

I think if you read his manifesto or just think about the way his mind works and his motivations for his crimes, it's clear that he just doesn't think in the same way most people do. To rehabilitate him you would have to do more than just educate him and treat him humanely, you would have to change how he works at the most base level.

 

[DracoSuave]

Norway's legal system seems to work brilliantly in general, but I do think that sometimes there is no rehabilitating people, and this is one of those cases. I know that he won't ever get out in actuality, but his cell is a little too cushy.

Can't honestly say that.

He hasn't even served 21 days of his sentance, never mind 21 years.

Look, he is brash, young, and stupid. But in two decades he won't be young. And he might not be brash OR stupid. He may be a completely different person by that time happens at which point yes, there is hope for rehabilitation.

Maybe he'll change, maybe he won't. I don't know the guy and there's no way for me to say if he will. I trust in the Norway system's judgement on this matter; after all their system seems to work very well!

Ultimately, it's up to him.

I think if you read his manifesto or just think about the way his mind works and his motivations for his crimes, it's clear that he just doesn't think in the same way most people do. To rehabilitate him you would have to do more than just educate him and treat him humanely, you would have to change how he works at the most base level.

Fortunately they have two decades to try to do so.

And if they don't, they can keep him until they do.

I still have trust in their system in either case--it works.

Look, he is brash, young, and stupid

I have to disagree with that, he's actually quite intelligent from everything I've heard.

It is a common and beguiling misconception that only the stupid can be racist/xenophobic/jingoistic/whateveristic.[/quote]

It also doesn't make him any less stupid. Smart people can hold stupid views. His views are obscenely stupid. His being smart doesn't make him less stupid.

 

[Stu35]

Ha, I knew someone couldn't make this thread without someone twisting it around to be about how America is bad and full of crime and stupid Americans!

I think it's more that so many of the people calling for the death penalty (or harsher punishment) come from America, in which Breivik would have received the death penalty (in several states) for his crimes, certainly he would have received a longer sentence for his crime...

And yet... America has, by and large, considerably more crime per capita than Norway.

I don't think people are outright saying how bad America is, just pointing out that there is, at the very least, a little irony in people mocking the Norweigan justice system when all evidence appears to point to their crime and punishment system being better at reducing crime than Americas.

Now, there are a million and one different reasons why the crime rate in Norway is less than Americas, and it may well be that one of those reasons is the Norweigan focus on rehabilitation over revenge... Nothing wrong with pointing that out. I've been doing the same today with my friends over here in the UK, the majority who whom have also declared that Breivik should have been treated with the absolute iron-est fist that could be mustered.

His being smart doesn't make him less stupid.

Whilst I agree with what (I think) you're trying to say. The wording of that sentence makes my head hurt.

Indeed I was, but I was confused, editing my post now!

I don't think I've ever seen anyone admit they were wrong on the internet. I am impressed. If I could hand out medals, you'd be the first and only recipient of the "reasonable human being on the internet" award.

Still, I did lol when I read your initial misunderstanding.