Oh no please don't watch that in English!
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With the exception of live action movies, I will always watch stuff in English.
With something animated and you have an English and a Japanese version, you have two actors who are both creating a voice for this character. Both of them probably auditioned for the role, both of them have just as much right to try and breath some personality, emotion and character into the role.
Live-action, you have someone trying to do a voice for something an actual actor has already said and performed the physical emotions for. It's really awkward and lets face it...the lip sync is always really off.
With something animated and you have an English and a Japanese version, you have two actors who are both creating a voice for this character. Both of them probably auditioned for the role, both of them have just as much right to try and breath some personality, emotion and character into the role.
Live-action, you have someone trying to do a voice for something an actual actor has already said and performed the physical emotions for. It's really awkward and lets face it...the lip sync is always really off.
There's actually a pretty good reason the subtitles are usually (though not always) more accurate than the dub. Basically, it takes more syllables -- and therefore more flaps of the mouth -- to say something in Japanese than in English. A good example is the word "goodbye." In English, it's two syllables long, but in Japanese, the equivalent word -- "sayonara" -- is four syllables long, taking twice as many flaps of a characters mouth onscreen. When a series is dubbed, they try to match the dialog to the flaps of the mouth, which means that, in English dubs at least, they have to add all sorts of filler words to make whats being said match what's onscreen. This has lead to some pretty terrible dialogue over the years.Crissaegrim said:
Edit: as for why to read instead of watch, there's two reasons; the one I detailed above, and the fact that emotion does in fact carry across languages. Someone earlier in the thread linked to the Finnish dub of Digimon, which without even speaking the language, it's pretty easy to tell that it's one of, if not the worst dub of all time. If the emotion is roughly right in the Japanese, you're going to be able to tell whether you speak the language or not.
However, while the emotions travel intact, it's harder to notice bad inflection in a language you don't speak than in one you do. English dubs tend to have pretty unrealistic inflections in the dialogue -- people say things in ways they never would in real life. When dialogue is in a language one doesn't understand, it's harder to tell if the little nuances of inflection are off, making for a much less nitpicky and enjoyable. However, this is assuming the Japanese version has just as many flaws as the English one. Wouldn't it make sense that switching between languages, while trying to match the mouth flaps, would ultimately throw off a lot of inflections? I mean, if you look at western cartoons -- Spongebob, My Little Pony, heck even crap like Johnny Test -- the voice acting is a lot, and I mean a lot a lot, better than almost anything to come out of an anime dubbing studio. Considering that the talent is there, doesn't it make sense that the act of translating the script without re-doing the video makes for slightly off dialogue?
"Don't watch it in English" is, for me, the PRECISE equivalent of "Don't watch it." If I wanted to read a comic book, I could. I want to watch a show, and I want it to talk to me in a language I speak. I have made maybe 4 exceptions to this rule in my life, all for foreign films, 2 in Chinese, 2 in French. Everything else is either in a language I speak or not at all.
No decent voice talent? What about?Craorach said:
Vic Mignogna
Monica Rial
Chris Patton
Luci Christian
Greg Ayers
Tony Oliver
Chris Sabat
Crispin Freeman
The entire cast of Fruits Basket and Bamboo Blade
?daltonlaffs said:
This thread is full of people saying they don't watch dubbed. Then there's all the piracy on top of that. My guess would be there aren't more competitors because making money off dubs is really hard.
Edit: I'll grant you one thing, 4Kids really, really sucks. Kids aren't discerning and will watch anything. So fine, when it comes to their work you may have a point.
I'll grant you two things, Fruits Basket had pronunciation issues and didn't always preserve Japanese culture (they are NOT jelly buns). However the voice acting for the characters themselves was absolutely perfect and this makes up for any complaints I have and then some. I just...I don't understand. Are we even watching the same show?Epicspoon said:
I'm saying subbed is better by a mile in this case.Mr. Google said:
Normally the Ghibli work is not too badly dubbed (except maybe when Disney changed Totoro's warm growls to a bear growls for no reason), but Mononoke has been subtly ruined in the dubbing. I originally watched the dubbed version many years ago and thought 'what an average film, it's nothing special'. Then two years later I saw the subtitled version. What a difference. The whole thing made perfect sense. And it was so much deeper. I love it now.
Looking back I can see some key lines missing from the dub (all for the sake of 'having the mouths match up'), and they try to make Ashitaka into a heroic character which was not Miyazaki's intention at all. Because this is an important work of his it really should be seen as it was intended (with subtitles). To me it feels like a different movie.
BTW - after you've seen the subtitled version watched again it in the dubbed version with subtitles on. Somewhere around the middle of the film you'll start to notice the characters are saying things that have different meanings from the subtitles. It's an interesting exercise in seeing how small changes in the script can really affect the power of a film.
This x1000, the dialogue was arguably less important than the desperation in the characters voices. In general I'm a fan of subtitles and the original performance because unless it's very well done, an important part of the performance is lost.SextusMaximus said:
The only exception to my rule is the original Japanese Iron Chef, I couldn't watch it any other way.
I love YGOTAS.Macgyvercas said:
Azumanga Daioh was terrible in english, as was sailor moon and pokemon.
Digimon I can watch either or.
DBZ, Fullmetal Alchemist, Hellsing,Deathnote were all ok dubbed.
I usually watch my anime subbed, so usually I perfer it over dubbed.
You should have just kindly pointed out that Spider-Man: The Animated Series is now in the Watch Instantly library. That would have been better for everyone.
As for the sub vs dub thing. I don't really watch anime. I'll try one out from time to time, and I'll watch it in English. I don't like reading subtitles for movies or shows. It may sound odd coming from a guy who reads as many books as I do, but books have contextual information written. I don't have to divide my attention for those.
As for the sub vs dub thing. I don't really watch anime. I'll try one out from time to time, and I'll watch it in English. I don't like reading subtitles for movies or shows. It may sound odd coming from a guy who reads as many books as I do, but books have contextual information written. I don't have to divide my attention for those.
As a newcomer to Anime I can only be expected to pick up what I see on my local DVD or Bookstore shelves.WayOutThere said:
The one's I've seen have horrible, high pitched, squealing voices for the females and stupid over dramatic voices for the males for the most part.
Yes, I'm aware some anime's in Japanese sound like those things, however, part of ensuring something appeals to a new market is making the voices sound like that new market would expect the characters to sound.
I'll look up the ones you mentioned however, to be fair.
dubs and subs are pretty equal nowadays but one that was bad dubbed was tenchi muyo I really liked Ryoko's dubbed voice but Ayeka's voice was so bad I couldn't stand it.
One thing that has hardly been touched on in this thread is the small number of people who provide English voices for dubbed Anime. This can be either a pro or a con. Personally I like hearing a familiar voice; I compare it to being more excited to see a movie with an actor/actress in it that I really like. Voice actors like Steven Blum and Crispin Freeman come to mind when it comes to dubbed Anime.
I'll agree with some previous posts that it depends on the setting. A show obviously taking place in the U.S. seems more correct in English. And Japanese characters should speak Japanese.
One related tangent: I've made arguments for the Tekken fighting game series because the Americans speak English and the Nihonjin ha Nihongo wo hanashimasu. It seems odd for everyone to speak English in a game where not everyone is from an English speaking country (the "Soul Calibur" solution). And it's irritating when all Characters, even those from the U.S.A., speak Japanese (ala DOA:4). Now how every character can understand both languages perfectly without a translator I can't answer. (Maybe all the concussions from being KO'd loosened had a positive effect on the language centers of their brains)
I'll agree with some previous posts that it depends on the setting. A show obviously taking place in the U.S. seems more correct in English. And Japanese characters should speak Japanese.
One related tangent: I've made arguments for the Tekken fighting game series because the Americans speak English and the Nihonjin ha Nihongo wo hanashimasu. It seems odd for everyone to speak English in a game where not everyone is from an English speaking country (the "Soul Calibur" solution). And it's irritating when all Characters, even those from the U.S.A., speak Japanese (ala DOA:4). Now how every character can understand both languages perfectly without a translator I can't answer. (Maybe all the concussions from being KO'd loosened had a positive effect on the language centers of their brains)
Craorach said:
Out of curiosity, what anime have you seen?
Also, I should note, as high pitched voices have never bothered me for whatever reason I had no qualms listing Monica Rial and Luci Christian as genuinely good voice actors. Rial in particular has the whole high pitched thing down to a tea although she is not without range. Her roles in RahXephon and Kurau Phantom Memory should be more to your taste than a lot of her other work.
One anime I would recommend for good voice acting that I didn't mention would be Welcome to the NHK which shows both Chris Patton and Greg Ayers at their best. Admittedly, with that anime Stephanie Wittels as Misaki Nakahara would be the weak link.
I hope that information is helpful to you.
Yes, there is that. I listed some English voice actors previously and the thing about them is they're everywhere! Find a new anime to watch and then go through the list. Yep, Luci Christian is in it. Yep, Chris Patton is in it. Yep, Monica Rial is in it. Yep, Greg Ayers is in it. Etc. The talent pool is so very small. Thank heavens they're so very talented.Sir_Nolan said:
Even so, I would really like to see some fresh blood getting a shot.
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On a different matter, why in the world can't I see my last comment? My profile says I did indeed post it.
Edit: Oh, there it is. Blast it, double post.
You're doing a bad job at defending dubs if that is the best you can come up with. Greg Ayres is pigeonholed and often does the same voice for multitudes of characters, which isn't fitting for Yamazaki at all, as it makes him sound like a prepubescent boy. Albeit, I don't blame Ayres for this as I met him once at a con and he was able to do a better voice than he did in the anime and told me he that the voice he did use was requested of him.WayOutThere said:
Chris Patton is just bad. His voice is bland with little emotion, particularly in comparison to Yutaka Koizumi, who plays Satou in the Japanese version.
Please, please, I think we can all agree the dubbed/subbed debate will rage on for all time. Personally, I think it depends on the show, but I've seen both work or many. However, I think we can at least find common ground in anything 4kids has touched.