Opinion!: Democracy in America (dead?)

[jpoon]

How is he regulating the economy exactly? By putting us further in debt? By endless bailouts? By forcing everyone to have insurance that they don't agree with?

I guess, whatever. Let freedom reign, though that sounds very little like freedom to me.

 

[notsosavagemessiah]

I don't think you can complain about not having change when you're refusing the change they are trying to make, he has tryed to introduce Universal Healthcare and everyones saying it's bad. That was probably one part of change they were going to make, he probably has more in plan but if people condemn them on there first attempt to make change with everyone saying he is a devilchild then how is he ment to introduce any other form of change when they will probably be condemned for that aswell.

This.

The thread author whines and cry's about the American government not doing anything while it is in fact because of people that cry endlessly about not wanting to have anything to do with the changes being introduced by Obama, sort of like a spoiled child that says it's hates anything and everyone and dismisses anything it's parent says in an attempt to calm the child down.

That is what i'm getting at, that is in fact the problem. Too many people are crying, and nobody is doing anything. Why? The people voted for change and are getting nothing in return for their faith. The republicans are crying because obama is a "socialist" and dems are upset because the republicans won't work with them. Everybody is screaming, and nobody is doing anything. This isn't what I voted for, and certainly not the rest of the country either.

I guess the reality is, people need to grow up and just let what needs to be done get done. But i suppose that'd be too much to ask.

 

[jpoon]

I have no faith in the left or the right. It's a false paradigm, IMO. Both sides are wings of the same bird.

 

[aakibar]

The problem is that Americans are always stuck in a rut about their parties, since the beginig of our republican experiment there have two parties. The closest to a united third party would be Ross Perot (spelling?) but that continues to fall through. Granted there is no real answer to all of our problems because the president no matter he was/is would be stuck in party rhetoric. The person who can fix the country will be someone who can putaside all forms of politics: Be voted in as indipendent, use both what is right for the country no matter if it is "political suicide". The other big issue is congress, worse then the president they are almost all stuffy old men and women who need to be changed, a term limit should be set becuase after a point they become disconnected with the people they should be representing.

The short version: everyone is either to stuck up or concerned with party politics to do what the true people want. also the deffinition of what is good and bad for the country is debatible someone who has lived long in the "rut" of the common man and then is elected is the only one to make the correct choices, he needs to have no political pary whatsoever so "political suicide" is not an issue.

So for those who have sat through my rant thank you beaer with my fast typing

 

[aakibar]

You know, using ALL CAPS in the title doesn't make me want to listen to you.

no but it makes you seem like your important and shouting like a crazed lunitic. lol

 

[jpoon]

The presidunce should propose this per state maybe, give each and every state the choice to join in on socalist care that way things would settle out a bit more fairly.

1. Fix Tort Reform and get rid of frivolous lawsuits (while fucking over lawyers in the process, always a good thing).
2. Remove protectionist laws like State borders for insurance (there's no need for this kind of shit anyways, it prevents low prices).
3. Remove penalties for not having insurance in his govcare proposal (free markets can't penalize for non-compliance).
4. Allow each state to vote for/against it.
5. Have a beer and/or a blunt and relax cause you finally got your shit done.

I repeat, if you so much want your healthcare then this is all you really have to do to accommodate the country.

 

[notsosavagemessiah]

Why? The people voted for change and are getting nothing in return for their faith.

I suggest you read my above comment. But perhaps i should just quote it instead

President Obama: Ok people, now it's time for a change!
The people: YES! Change at last!
President Obama: Want universal health care?
The people: No.
President Obama: Want a more regulated economy to keep the company's in check?
The people: No.
President Obama: Want to make some new rules to prevent the super rich from exploiting the little man?
The people: No.
President Obama: Then what the hell do you want?
The people: WE WANT CHANGE!!!!!!!!!!!

See what i mean?

The people cry out for change, Obama attempts to bring it to them, and they then denounce it all and then complain about Obama not doing anything to keep his promise of change.

Yeah, except one small issue. It's a small minority that's causing all this ruckus, and it's the president's attempts to appease this small minority that is causing absolutely nothing to
get done. Most people in the U.S. agree with the president's ideas, that's why they voted for him, but it's the fact that he's trying so hard to appease the unappeaseable and not listening to the people who voted him in that annoys me. Let's not even talk about goddamned congress, in fact, i'd say their the bigger issue.

 

[notsosavagemessiah]

You know, using ALL CAPS in the title doesn't make me want to listen to you.

no but it makes you seem like your important and shouting like a crazed lunitic. lol

And that, is in fact what matters lol.

 

[aakibar]

The presidunce should propose this per state maybe, give each and every state the choice to join in on socalist care that way things would settle out a bit more fairly.

1. Fix Tort Reform and get rid of frivolous lawsuits (while fucking over lawyers in the process, always a good thing).
2. Remove protectionist laws like State borders for insurance (there's no need for this kind of shit anyways, it prevents low prices).
3. Remove penalties for not having insurance in his govcare proposal (free markets can't penalize for non-compliance).
4. Allow each state to vote for/against it.
5. Have a beer and/or a blunt and relax cause you finally got your shit done.

I repeat, if you so much want your healthcare then this is all you really have to do to accommodate the country.

the only real problem is with the states voteing, the location of some states makes them lean to oneside or another and forces sectionalism we already tried it when we were a young nation and it did not work nothing got passed. but otherwise it seems complete.

am i understanding you correctly?

 

[Doktor Merkwurdigliebe]

Looks like someone lost himself in that 12/9 teabaggers protest.

I don't have my personal oppinion, as I'm not an american, but I wonder, why the hell you people hate your president so much? He's about 1 year in the office, and he probably gets more heat then Bush had during his reign.

EDIT:

I'm learning as time has gone on, that none of these people truly want change, they simply want to be the party in charge, or at the very least, maintain their seat. But, as we can see now, nothing is getting done because too many people are either buying in to the republicans BS or accomplishing nothing by trying to work with them. My question is, what did we elect these people for? Aren't they supposed to work for us? Didn't we put them in office? What about what the people want? Doesn't that matter any more? What about equality, diplomacy, democracy? It seems to me that our current system is standing in direct contrast, and that more and more the two party system is merely a veil under which the truth is lying. That is to say, there is no more democracy, only two bickering parties who are struggling to rule over one another.

Sorry to reply with a one-liners, but - Welcome to reality. We don't like idealists here.

 

[jpoon]

I would say you are. You are right about sectionalism though this is pretty natural for the country. I think it should be more of a states right than a federal policy but I guess there is room for more discussion on that.

 

[theultimateend]

Technicaly speaking, democracy never truley exsisted in America in the first place. America is a represenative republic.

Pretty much this.

What I like to remind folks is that as long as you have party systems you will never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, have a government that works in your interest.

You need individuals in the positions and individuals only, party systems are a half notch above religious organizations when it comes to hive mind actions. This is why both sides have extremes that they go to.

Basically anytime anyone votes for any person that is part of any party they are shitting on their own face, in a metaphorical politically speaking sort of way.

Yeah, except one small issue. It's a small minority that's causing all this ruckus, and it's the president's attempts to appease this small minority that is causing absolutely nothing to
get done. Most people in the U.S. agree with the president's ideas, that's why they voted for him, but it's the fact that he's trying so hard to appease the unappeaseable and not listening to the people who voted him in that annoys me. Let's not even talk about goddamned congress, in fact, i'd say their the bigger issue.

An extremely small minority. Almost obscenely small in most cases. It only looks large because 24 hour news plays it up to retarded levels.

Congress is amazing, I've trouble thinking up people who literally do so little and yet make so much money. They get excited after a long day if nothing happens, some guy was on the news about it "We knew we'd fail when we came in, but we didn't know how close we'd come to not failing, it makes us happy." Really? That's how you judge your day...how close you came to ALMOST doing something.

Damn I want to be a congress person. I'd actually do shit and people would freak. Oh God! What is he doing! Is he signing something! Who the fuck brought in pens! This is madness!

 

[Rigs83]

As a native born American I have learned that democracy means you make the powerful and wealthy more powerful and wealthy and the weak and poor more weak and poor.

 

[jpoon]

Looks like someone lost himself in that 12/9 teabaggers protest.

I don't have my personal oppinion, as I'm not an american, but I wonder, why the hell you people hate your president so much? He's about 1 year in the office, and he probably gets more heat then Bush had during his reign.

Why should i like him is more of the question?
I fucking hated Bush with every breath in my body. Obomber is just next in line. He's done really nothing to restore constitutional rights as he promised he would. He's kept rendition flights, expanded the CIA influence and power and basically has reneged on every promise he's made. So far he's batting at a very low percentage. I just don't really care to worship someone like this president, just as I didn't worship the failure that was Dubya Bush.

Both of them are puppets, I want to destroy the puppeteers, in all honesty.

 

[Robo-Penguin]

The presidunce should propose this per state maybe, give each and every state the choice to join in on socalist care that way things would settle out a bit more fairly.

1. Fix Tort Reform and get rid of frivolous lawsuits (while fucking over lawyers in the process, always a good thing).
2. Remove protectionist laws like State borders for insurance (there's no need for this kind of shit anyways, it prevents low prices).
3. Remove penalties for not having insurance in his govcare proposal (free markets can't penalize for non-compliance).
4. Allow each state to vote for/against it.
5. Have a beer and/or a blunt and relax cause you finally got your shit done.

there are flaws to your argument,
1)wont happen because great Howard Dean(D-VT)put it truthfully: We already are making enemies over this health care and we don't wish to make enemies with the trial lawyers".
2)give states actual rights? I thought the federal government was the only decision maker in America
3)Penalties are incentives to go with the universal health care, obama did state he was a single payer proponent
4)refer back to item 2
5)no cynical argument for that except that it is congress and the only work they can achieve is wasting time/money/people's sanity

 

[Doktor Merkwurdigliebe]

Both of them are puppets, I want to destroy the puppeteers, in all honesty.

And that would be...?

 

[Seldon2639]

The presidunce should propose this per state maybe, give each and every state the choice to join in on socalist care that way things would settle out a bit more fairly.

1. Fix Tort Reform and get rid of frivolous lawsuits (while fucking over lawyers in the process, always a good thing).
2. Remove protectionist laws like State borders for insurance (there's no need for this kind of shit anyways, it prevents low prices).
3. Remove penalties for not having insurance in his govcare proposal (free markets can't penalize for non-compliance).
4. Allow each state to vote for/against it.
5. Have a beer and/or a blunt and relax cause you finally got your shit done.

1. And in the process lower the standard of care for patients, who no longer have the recourse of lawsuits to punish poor insurance providers or poor doctors. Where's the free market rhetoric when we're talking about the freedom to sue people? Or do you just want protections from free market consequences for some groups.
2. Except for the part where the lack of interstate coverage is done by state law (the basis of the non-crossing is because otherwise the insurance companies would all have to be held to the regulations of whatever the most stringent regulations are. In order to provide insurance in a state, you must be an agent in that state, and follow its regulations), not federal. Where's your "state's rights uber-alles" mindset now? Once again, you like your high-minded philosophy until there's something the "free market" or 'states' are doing that you don't like. I'm fine with allowing cross-state competition, so long as you're willing to accept that the states still get to have whatever regulations they like, and the companies have to follow them in order to do any business in that state. What you want to have is "wherever the insurance companies are, they can follow the regulation of their home state, and sell the lower-regulated policy to other states." Hmm... The federal government prohibiting a state's ability to regulate... That doesn't sound very supportive of states' rights.
3. Um... You mean an individual mandate like we have with car or homeowner's insurance? Or are you talking about the imaginary "it can only ever affect me" insurance? The reason we need everyone to be insured for healthcare is the same as for automobile insurance: one person has an affect on other people. If you get sick without insurance, you go to the hospital, you get treated, and that cost gets passed on to other consumers. Unless we're willing to say "no treatment without insurance" and get rid of public hospitals, you're nowhere near being right. And, even if we do, your untreated Tuberculosis actually poses a health risk to me, which makes it my problem if you don't have insurance.
4. Again, you want states' rights when it's convenient. I'm fine for letting the states vote for it, but be consistent about wanting it to be up to the individual states. Either it's up to them, or it isn't.
5. Excluding the myriad issues with your plan, precisely.

 

[McClaud]

All I can say is: 9 months.

You're asking the President - who isn't the key branch for making policy and law in this country - to fix issues and make changes that take literally 2 or 3 years before they start showing up. Furthermore, he has started making changes to the system, which will impact policy down the road. Like getting new alternative energy policy in the front of the line with health care reform. And appointing a Chief Justice. And moving the budget towards internal problems. And making a change to our diplomatic strategy with countries such as Russia, China and our allies (who were feeling really neglected and shunned).

But those changes don't amount to a giant, reverse-course results which a lot of people fooled themselves into believing would happen as soon as Obama took office. I'm finding that a lot of the younger crowd who voted don't have a lot of patience for things that definitely take longer than a year or two to come into effect. You would have all hated Presidents prior to Clinton - it took FOREVER for anything Reagan signed into policy to actually have an effect on the country, for example.

I'll tell you what I told the Bush haters in GW's first term: Give it time, man. Criticize him closer to the end of his third year in office. Even I didn't start criticizing hard on Bush until the end of 2005 (he had plenty of time for his measures to come around by then). This isn't some magical fairyland where economic or social policy is signed into effect, and tomorrow poof! MAGICAL RAINBOWS!!!!

 

[CrysisMcGee]

Hmmm.....I think I'll move to Canada. Or England. I hear they have free college in England.

All in all though, Freedom of choice, freedom of movement, freedom of life is what matters to me.