Parents accused of sexual abuse for taking pictures of their kids

[SomeUnregPunk]

You do not know what paedophilia is, what you are referring to is know as as child molestation.

The two go hand-in-hand. Are you telling me that a pre-pubescent child understands both the physical and emotional baggage that can come with sexual contact with an adult? The fact that anyone could persue it is just sickening. How would you explain it to the child? Most children can't make and honest choice because they don't understand the gravity of such a decision.

To argue that it is something one is born with is also a load of shit. It is a mental disorder as characterized by the DSM IV.

http://www.minddisorders.com/Ob-Ps/Pedophilia.html

http://www.medem.com/?q=medlib/article/ZZZUZRUZGLC

Pedophilia is a (sexual) attraction to pre-pubescent children. Again, it will never be accepted in mainstream society. Don't kid yourself.

Seriously, are you dfending pedophiles? If so, I would like to say that you will win little to no support here. Seriously, seek help - psychiatric help.

You just said it's a mental disorder. Do you feel the same way about paranoid schizophrenics, or bipolar disorder, or manic depression? You can defend people with mental issues without having them yourself.

If this is a mental disorder, then is it can you wean them off it by making them masturbate to something else for an year or so? So then the attraction gets replaced? Get them to masturbate to a tree or something less taboo.

 

[Woodsey]

Ridiculous - everyone has that (I know there's pics of me in the bath).

 

[Dudemeister]

This is why I say the pedophile hysteria is just pointless.

Eventually pedophiles will be accepted and you can hate something else, these things go in cycles.

It wasn't very long ago it was perfectly acceptable to think of black people as lesser beings, now all of a sudden saying such things will shock people.

It wasn't very long ago it was perfectly acceptable to make fun of homosexual people, and point out how their "brains are defective". Nowadays this is not acceptable.

Pedophiles are next, all of a sudden your "kiddy fiddler" jokes will be looked down upon.

Have you just likened peadophillia to being black or gay ?
So sexually abusing children is the same as being born black is it ?
Oh, and some day, peadophiles will be accepted ?
Being gay and being a peadophile are quite different, for one thing, peadophillia is never consentual, children to not want to be raped by adults (shocking, I know).
I highly doubt that raping children will be acceptable at any point because for peadophiles to be 'accepted', children's rights would have to be completely ignored.

Yes I did.

The parallels between "gay rights" and "pedophile rights" are astounding.

Furthermore, how is the outcry of "kill that guy for thinking about having sex with a child" anymore rational than "kill that guy for thinking about having sex with another male". Even if these people have never acted upon anything, apparently they need to be killed based on their thoughts, that are potentially unwanted anyway.

Its just "cool" now to kill pedophiles instead of homosexuals.

I'm not talking about having sexual thoughts about those of the same gender or about children, what I mean is acting upon those thoughts. Just because a person has sexual thoughts about children, that is not an excuse to act upon those thoughts.
Most gay people have consentual sex with others. Peadophiles, however, do not engage in consentual acts with children, which equates to rape. Adults are not allowed to rape each other, they are prosecuted for commiting rape so why should adults be allowed to rape children ?
Just to be clear, I'm not referring to a guy who has sex with a fifteen year old, I mean real child rape.

 

[tsb247]

But can you tell me WHY it is in a different league. I don't see much difference. Being racist and homophobic both stem from irrational fears yes?

Ok, I have decided to re-enter the conversation to make one and only one more point.

Why do people hate pedophiles? The answer is simple. People have actually been hurt/traumatized/mentally destroyed by acts of pedophilia. I'm sure you can imagine why. If you deny that those urges, if acted upon, will not damage a child for life, then you really need help.

There is no 'irrational fear' about it. It has been shown that pedophiles who act on their compulsions will destroy a child mentally - usually for life. Pedophilia is a mental disorder, not the same as being homosexual, and it is certainly not the same as being black.

http://www.medem.com/?q=medlib/article/ZZZUZRUZGLC

Being black and/or homosexual does generally does not hurt anyone. Pedophilia has and does.

Ok, I'm done for good. Quoting me will not illicit a response.

*Closes and locks door*

 

[yeliw]

ITT: Fredrick2003 and friends try to argue that being turned on by small children IS NOT a terrible, terrible thing, and everyone else actually discusses what was posted.

Guys, if you want to discuss how you should have the right to have sex with small children, do it in your own thread please.

Also, to settle the squabble over what pedophilia is, as someone whose family contains a few Psychiatrists I am pretty familiar with it. According to the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental disorders) "pedophilia is a form of paraphilia in which a person either has acted on intense sexual urges towards children, or experiences recurrent sexual urges towards and fantasies about children that cause distress or interpersonal difficulty."

 

[Starnerf]

/snip

If this is a mental disorder, then is it can you wean them off it by making them masturbate to something else for an year or so? So then the attraction gets replaced? Get them to masturbate to a tree or something less taboo.

According to that second link:

"Pedophilia generally is treated with cognitive-behavioral therapy. The therapy may be prescribed alone or in combination with medication. Some examples of medications that have been used include anti-androgens and selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs). Relapse prevention is also emphasized. However, the outlook for successful treatment and rehabilitation of individuals with Pedophilia is guarded."

I'm not particularly familiar with treatments for mental disorders so I probably wouldn't be the one to ask for an effective evaluation of therapy techniques.

 

[Wyatt]

Excuse me. The 'right' thing was to to take their toddlers/infants away for almost a month and a half? No. I don't think thats right at all. Its not too difficult tell whether theres some funny business going on in a picture or not. Are the kids playing? Or is there something inappropriate going on? Its really not that hard to tell. The fuck-o at wal-mart obviously left his braincells at home, flipped out, and decided to go apeshit over nothing. This is nothing short of an affront to the family. Those kids will have more scars from being kept from their parents for a month, than anything those pictures could have done.

wow you seem to be totaly missing the point. you look at this case in hind sight and say yup the wal-mart guy and the CPS were wrong.

i would tell you to look at this case not from the end view point but from the begining. your presented with nude photos of kids on camera memory stick those photos are a small part of a larger album of a vacation trip. the first question you would be asking yourself is why suddenly among all the pictures of a vacation do you find nude photos of the children NOT just taking a bath as is said here but rather

"There were seven to eight bath- and playtime photos of the girls that showed a "portion or outline or genitalia.""

that too me warents an investigation.

now the next stage, you also start from the end result and clame that the CPS was wrong. as yourself this, they are presented with nude photos of kids. some in the bath some not, these photos were left in with a bunch of vacation photos, certianly its atleast REASONABLE to assume that perhaps, just MAYBE that the 'bath time' photos WERE a part of soemthing more alarming and it DID need too be investigated either way.

and now finaly the most importiant part. i dont give a fuck about the parents supposid 'rights' here. the childrens rights come first. i think the parents were ignorant to be taking bathtime photos that could in any way be mistaken for anything more than innocent photos in the first place. many have pointed out here that innocent pictures should be 'obvious' to anyone and i tend to agree with that. wich makes me belive that the pictures in question , especialy the 'play time' ones were quite so 'innocent' as this article would ahve us belive.

another thing is that CPS as a rule DOESNT just rip kids out of homes at the drop of the hat so again thats evidence for me that these 'innocent photos' werent as simple as many here try and make it sound like.

and finaly, the kids were removed for a month so what? better a month in CPS hands than a entire childhood of sexual abuse. child sexual abuse (or any kind of child abuse) isnt something you can safly hit or miss on. this isnt something that we can shrug and say its ok too err on the side of caution and NOT investigate promptly and take extream measures to end if you have reasonable cause to investigate. to me naked photos of kids at play is reasonable cause to investigate, and yes even to 'rip the kids away from their parents' as dramatic as that sounds we all no its nonsense. kids that youn will forget about it even assuming they were upeset to begin with, what they WOULDNT forget is an entire childhood of being diddled by daddy. THAT is the real issue here despite all the hype and nonsence i read in this thread.

i would MUCH rather have 'innocent parents' being cought up in a perhaps top over zelious CPS system and have the children protected than have innocent children NOT bieng protected because parents that are stupid enough to take naked photos of the kids to wal/mart in the first place might get a bad repution? wtf how can the possable have a bad repution? no charges were file, they got their kids back safe and sound and THEY learned a valuable lession that they obviously needed to be tought.

bottom line is that no matter what slight problems that these parents faced even in the worst possable senario that some here trumpet isnt even on the same scale with what cild abuse victims face. if the parents are now uncomfortable and upset they 'lost' their children for a month, i feel a slight sense of sympathy for them but that sympathy is tempered by the fact taht number one they WERE stupid enough to take nude pictures of their kids in the first place and niumber two their discomfort is a small price to pay to be CERTIAN that the CHILDREN were being abused.

what brings truly to the levle of farse for me, is that these morons parents try to get naked photos of their kids developed and now they are upset that they got investigated for a possable crime? OHH NOES WE AER TEH PEDOZ NOW !!11!11 they have been subject to *gasp* the trauma of having to explane just WHY it was they were stupid enough to take nude pictures of their kids to wal-mart. big ........... fucking ........ deal.

ive delt with CPS before or rather the senior version of it, i myself HAVE been investiaged for 'abusing' my grandmother. i WELCOMED them when they came to my home. i did nothing of the kind, i knew i was innocent and nothing at all to be worried about. they did their investigation found that not only was my granmother NOT abused but was getting above average care for a person in her sitution and that the charges were totaly unfounded. in short the APS agent wasnt my enemy and i didnt assume that she was when she came knocking at my door, she was there to make certian that an old and vulnerable woman was NOT being abused, and rather than me thuming my chest and screaming about how i had been accused wrongfully i was actualy happy too see that someone DID care enough to make certian that the elderly ARENT being abused. now the twit who repoted me in the first place thats another matter, but it was also due to personel issues. in plane words she was abusing the sytem to spite ME. but just because i was a 'victim' of the system and because SHE was a moron doesnt make the 'system' itself bad nor the people who work in it.

the steaks in all abuse cases are just to high to fail. if some 'innocent people' have to be uncomfortable for awhile thats a price im willing to pay to be a certian as we can be that REAL abuse isnt taking place. id rather have in MY society 20 sets of innocent parents investiagted and found not guilty than have even ONE child slip through the cracks and face a lifetime of REAL suffering because of it.

as fortune would have it Judges and courts agree with me. better 20 wrongfull accused 'innocent' parents than even 1 abused child

 

[yeliw]

I'm sorry, I agree with the above statement, but when I got to "the steaks in all abuse cases" I just couldn't keep from laughing.

 

[Supreme Unleaded]

I have a picture of me in a bath from when i was like 2, and it shows some parts, am i going to child services , I DONT WANNA *continues to cry*.

 

[Cody211282]

What the hell my parents did this to me all the time, mind you i found them as soon as i hit 15 and hid/destroyed them all but still

 

[Ancientgamer]

There is another fundamental difference with pedophilia and that is that the majority of those who can be classified as pedophile are men (i.e. it is very rare to find this trait in women). This points to a unique symptom in men, and not to the population as a whole like homosexuality.

This is a fallacy, There are many paedophilac women. They are just less frequently involved in cases of child molestation.


Lets just make a bottom line here, something we can agree on.


1. sexual relations with pre-pubescent children is unacceptable.


We can agree on that, correct?

Now, whether paedophilia is a disorder or an orientation, it is not a choice.


The crux of my point, is that treating your average, harmless paedophile respectfully like any other human and tolerating their preference while having the understanding that they will not act on it, is not the same thing as condoning child molestation in any way shape or form.

Futhermore, seeing as it's not a choice, "discouraging" or "vehemently hating" paedophiles does nothing except give them a sense of abandonment by society, possibly making them more likely to act on their urges. And that, seeing as it's also not something you can choose too have, understanding will not swell their numbers.

What do you think?

 

[yeliw]

Its not an excuse, I agree. Many pedophiles go their whole lives without acting on anything.

I just thing its wrong to kill people for what is in their head. That is basically what my argument is all about. It's a little much.

...What?!? No one here EVER talked about "killing pedophiles." Your attempt to back out of this and save face is very, very obvious here.

I mean, it's obvious to me that you either would define yourself as a sufferer of, or at the very least have absolutely no experience with, pedophilia or the results thereof. I can understand why some people would want to "kill pedophiles." I don't agree with it obviously, but it is understandable.

What you seem to not understand is what it is you are saying. Pedophilia is not just the basic attraction to small children in a sexual manner, it is a case where someone has either acted to some extent on said urges, or is fixated on them to a point where said person is mentally disturbed or obsessed.

Saying that pedophiles are equal to gays or blacks is like comparing them to rapists, and you should be ashamed.

The hatreds that you pointed out come from ignorance, whereas the hatred of pedophiles stems from understanding. Understanding exactly the damage one can do.

 

[AndyFromMonday]

Whilst I was 2, my mothers friend's daughter and myself were bathed.(Aka we were in the same tub for 15 minutes). They took pictures because I started throwing water at her, and she started throwing water at me, fun times. Child abuse? No. Picture to remember how silly you were at a younger age? YES!

It's just incredible how stupid some people are. OH NOEZ, YOU TOOK PICTURES OF YOUR OWN CHILDREN BATHING, FACKEN CHILD ABUSE!

Also, digital cameras for the win?

 

[yeliw]

This is a fallacy, There are many paedophilac women. They are just less frequently involved in cases of child molestation.


Lets just make a bottom line here, something we can agree on.


1. sexual relations with pre-pubescent children is unacceptable.


We can agree on that, correct?

Now, whether paedophilia is a disorder or an orientation, it is not a choice.


The crux of my point, is that treating your average, harmless paedophile respectfully like any other human and tolerating their preference while having the understanding that they will not act on it, is not the same thing as condoning child molestation in any way shape or form.

Futhermore, seeing as it's not a choice, "discouraging" or "vehemently hating" paedophiles does nothing except give them a sense of abandonment by society, possibly making them more likely to act on their urges. And that, seeing as it's also not something you can choose too have, understanding will not swell their numbers.

What do you think?

I would agree with your statement, except that there really is no guarantee that someone will not act on their sexual desires. You can argue about why it is or where it comes from, but it is defined by current medical studies as a disorder, one which can be treated to a certain extent.

However it is somewhat widely accepted that someone who has acted on pedophilic urges in the past is MUCH more likely to do so in the future.

Also, assuming that the average pedophile is harmless is a serious misunderstanding of what pedophilia is.

 

[dstryfe]

This is why I say the pedophile hysteria is just pointless.

Eventually pedophiles will be accepted and you can hate something else, these things go in cycles.

It wasn't very long ago it was perfectly acceptable to think of black people as lesser beings, now all of a sudden saying such things will shock people.

It wasn't very long ago it was perfectly acceptable to make fun of homosexual people, and point out how their "brains are defective". Nowadays this is not acceptable.

Pedophiles are next, all of a sudden your "kiddy fiddler" jokes will be looked down upon.

Comparing abundance of melanin to paedophilia? Poor form, sir. That said, I see your point. It wasn't too long ago that being gay was almost as bad as liking child porn.

This is the level of stupidity I hoped I would never hear of. I didn't even expect this of America, land of the terminally thoughtless. Yet here it is. It should never have happened, and those parents had better win something out of this lawsuit.

 

[GonzoGamer]

Like I said above, I've (personally mind you) heard quite a few horror stories about CPS but I've never heard one story involving the CPS where the person involved said "thank god for CPS stepping in."

And you probably never would, because who in the heck is going to thank CPS? The parents who deserved to have their kids taken away sure aren't going to thank them. The parents who get screwed by false allegations and overzealous CPS workers aren't going to thank them. The foster kids for whom the system fails sure aren't going to thank them.

Even many of the foster kids who have positive outcomes are going to be uncertain about whether or not to thank them because of the impossible task of judging what could have been against what actually was. That said, I have met plenty in the latter category and they are thankful for CPS. You may have met quite a few yourself and not known it, because I doubt they'll tell casual acquaintances their very personal stories of being saved by CPS. Most foster kids are not exactly in a hurry to dredge up that part of their past.

So forgive me if I don't take your exposure to personal anecdotes as a sound basis for messing with social policy.

Okay but you have to forgive me for not overlooking the real stories I know of with your rosy outlook on their practices. My problem isn't that they take kids away from their parents; some parents need to have their kids taken from them for everyones own good: I can understand that. The problem I have is that most of the kids who are taken away aren't in the type of danger that should necessitate it and when they are taken away, they often suffer worse abuse from the various worms that work within that system.

 

[GonzoGamer]

The other problem is that most of the families that this kind of thing happens to are too poor to sue.

Poverty is definitely an issue, but it has more to do with the fact that these families cannot afford to take care of their children to current social standards than it does with the fact that they can't sue. While I've seen poor families have their kids unfairly taken away by CPS, and then lack the financial resources to fight it, I have also seen far more kids removed from poor families for perfectly valid reasons. Unfortunately those valid reasons tend to discriminate against the poor from the outset.

Far more heartbreaking than the clear cases of CPS mishandling are the cases where CPS is legitimately taking kids away from families where just a little bit of intervention and social assistance would have made all the difference in the world. Families who absolutely did not have to be broken apart. But the very concept of preventative social assistance is anathema to the morality of the average US tax payer. Despite the fact that it almost always costs less in the long run, the reality is that Americans would rather pay MORE to ensure that there are no freeloaders than to run the risk of even one person "mooching" off their hard-earned buck.

What I find more sadly ironic is that many of the bozos who are against social programs that would help those poor people are of that mind because they feel it uses too much of their tax dollars but these same bozos have no qualms about 100x that money being used to make a single bomb.
I can understand being fiscally conservative but I think few conservatives even know what that means.

 

[CrysisMcGee]

Anybody else have naked pictures of yourself from when you were a kid? I got a few.

Parents do it all the time. It's nothing new.

How do people call it sexual abuse? You're a kid. You're naked for many different reasons.
Parents take pictures. They think its cute.

 

[Blow_Pop]

oh so, then technically the fifty million plus photos my parents have of me naked as a child in the bath mean that my parents sexually abused me? wtf? this is bullshit it really is. The walmart employee fucking overreacted......

50 million? I think that may count as abuse...

Edit: Assuming it takes 1s for each photo... that would mean you were in the bath for about 38 years. With your parents taking photos continuously.

exaggeration....