People you believe should be looked upon more favorably by history.

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RebelRising

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gimmesometea said:
RebelRising said:
Saddam Hussein, like any dictator worth his salt, killed a bunch of people without much in the way of fair trials or humane disposal, but his force managed to keep religious extremism and terrorism at bay all throughout his rule. As bloodthirsty and inhuman as terrorists like bin Laden are, they were genuinely scared of what Hussein could do to them. He's about as peaceful as you could get in that region for a long time.
Under his rule, Iraq had better healthcare that the US, but that all went when the Americans invaded. Saddam's government gave women added freedoms and offered them high-level government and industry jobs. He also created a Western-style legal system, which was unique in the Middle East.
Interestingly enough, you know who also did those exact sorts of things? Shah Pahlavi, before the Ayatollah came and screwed everything up.

I mean, sure, they were repressive and ruthless dictators (especially Hussein), but that sort of force is the only thing that could've kept religious extremism at bay in that region. They were forward thinkers and modernizers, and it ultimately worked out badly for them. It's a shame.
 

Bulletinmybrain

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RebelRising said:
gimmesometea said:
RebelRising said:
Saddam Hussein, like any dictator worth his salt, killed a bunch of people without much in the way of fair trials or humane disposal, but his force managed to keep religious extremism and terrorism at bay all throughout his rule. As bloodthirsty and inhuman as terrorists like bin Laden are, they were genuinely scared of what Hussein could do to them. He's about as peaceful as you could get in that region for a long time.
Under his rule, Iraq had better healthcare that the US, but that all went when the Americans invaded. Saddam's government gave women added freedoms and offered them high-level government and industry jobs. He also created a Western-style legal system, which was unique in the Middle East.
Interestingly enough, you know who also did those exact sorts of things? Shah Pahlavi, before the Ayatollah came and screwed everything up.

I mean, sure, they were repressive and ruthless dictators (especially Hussein), but that sort of force is the only thing that could've kept religious extremism at bay in that region. They were forward thinkers and modernizers, and it ultimately worked out badly for them. It's a shame.
The only reasons they were taken out of power was that they pissed off the western nations and they thought they could do better without all the back-talking.
 

HerrBobo

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Ares Tyr said:
Good sweet Buddha. Why do you people have such a hard-on for Hitler? Hello... HOLOCAUST! BOMBED THE FUCK OUT OF EUROPE!
Agreed.

He did far more damage to Germany then good.

Also, to those of you saying "Hitler improved the German economy" The Nazi econmic policy was, in many ways a failure. The German economy was strong before and after the Nazis. Many of the reforms and economic benfits seen during the Nazi rule were infact draw up by the Weimar Republic, the benfits of which were just begining to be seen as the Nazis took power. The Nazis did make some improvments, by 1939 there was almost full employment and the autobahn projects were good. However in other areas they failed; there aim to be self sufficient did not work, with major foodstuffs only at 80% home grown by 1939.

The Nazi econoic poilcy can be seen as moderately sucussful, full employment by '39, but with low wages, output and productivity.

The truth is that the German nation would have been much better under the Weimar Republic then the Nazis, even if WW2 had never happend.
 

Ares Tyr

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Rajin Cajun said:
Ares Tyr said:
Bulletinmybrain said:
Ares Tyr said:
Good sweet Buddha. Why do you people have such a hard-on for Hitler? Hello... HOLOCAUST! BOMBED THE FUCK OUT OF EUROPE!

Well atleast he was entertaining. Plus, france and the U.K. were dicks and made the people pay of a debt for the first great war.

Also the only thing different from hitler and the U.S is that we didn't start killing the people we put into concentration interment camps.
I'm not excusing the US from the dumb shit they did during that time. But in a thread about people who should be looked upon more favorably, Hitler's name should not have come up unless jokingly.

The guy wasn't a good person by any measaure of the phrase.

And again, Saddam Hussein may have helped some people out, it doesn't overthrow the fact that he gassed, like, thousands and thousands of innocent people for having a different religion than him.

Oh yeah, but it's cool cuz he had a sweet healthcare plan for the people who didn't get gassed. Fuck, I'm glad you people aren't in charge of stuff.
Who are you to decide who is good and who is bad? Did you know Hitler? Of course not so why such a hardon for your hate for him? People can like whoever the bloody hell they want I don't get why you have to hound them and get your knickers in a bunch.
I'm sorry, forgive me for, in my unfathomable ignorance, considering two mass-murderers and genocide-comitting war criminals, bad people. What the fuck was I thinking?
 

RebelRising

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Bulletinmybrain said:
RebelRising said:
gimmesometea said:
RebelRising said:
Saddam Hussein, like any dictator worth his salt, killed a bunch of people without much in the way of fair trials or humane disposal, but his force managed to keep religious extremism and terrorism at bay all throughout his rule. As bloodthirsty and inhuman as terrorists like bin Laden are, they were genuinely scared of what Hussein could do to them. He's about as peaceful as you could get in that region for a long time.
Under his rule, Iraq had better healthcare that the US, but that all went when the Americans invaded. Saddam's government gave women added freedoms and offered them high-level government and industry jobs. He also created a Western-style legal system, which was unique in the Middle East.
Interestingly enough, you know who also did those exact sorts of things? Shah Pahlavi, before the Ayatollah came and screwed everything up.

I mean, sure, they were repressive and ruthless dictators (especially Hussein), but that sort of force is the only thing that could've kept religious extremism at bay in that region. They were forward thinkers and modernizers, and it ultimately worked out badly for them. It's a shame.
The only reasons they were taken out of power was that they pissed off the western nations and they thought they could do better without all the back-talking.
That wasn't Iran's problem; Iran was great friends with the West; his only antagonists were the religious conservatives and students who chafed under his restrictions on Islamic expression. By the time the Shah was exiled, and the Ayatollah came back, the religious, theocratical power was the enemy of America, what with two separate hostage incidents, a bungled rescue mission, and constant criticism from the Ayatollah. At least the Ayatollah's prime ministers (the first two who were moderates) tried to mediate with the U.S., but the Ayatollah scrapped all diplomacy as best as he could.

Iraq is different, because of the obvious influence of the Israeli lobby, but that was much more of a preemptive move on the part of the U.S.
 

sgtshock

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Walt Disney. Everytime I hear someone mention him (at least on the internet) they're bashing him for being a Nazi who enslaved his workers. He did show some interest in facism in Europe (he wasn't the only one at the time, and don't forget that people had a crisis in faith in democracy after the Great Depression), and he did push his workers hard (but they were probably well-payed), but he was an ambitious-as-hell genius.

He pretty much invented animation as we know it today, made huge risks in the name of entertainment and progress (everyone was betting that Snow White, the first feature length animated movie, would bankrupt Disney). Before he died, EPCOT (Experimental Prototype City of Tomorrow,, or something like that) was going to be a sprawling utopian metropolis. It was to be his crowning achievement, and even on his death bed he kept drawing up plans for his master work. But after his death, no one was ambitious enough to take on the project, and it was converted into a theme park.

Yes, Disney may suck now, but Walt was a fucking genius.
 

bilkobob

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I'd go with James Cook and Henry Morgan. Cook gets a bad rap among the political correctness crowd, seen as bringing forth the evils of Western civilization. To borrow a phrase: he was neither hero nor villain-- just an extraordinary adventurer, explorer, and navigator.

Morgan sometimes gets painted as a bloodthirsty pirate. He was more privateer than pirate; while he had preformed acts of violence and viciousness, I'd chalk that more up to heat of battle than wanton cruelty. In fact he was the first person to sue and win in a libel lawsuit for being characterized as bloodthirsty.
 

Cliff_m85

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Houdini, who wasn't just an escape artist. After his mother died he went to a psychic who 'channeled' his mother. The problem is that Houdini's mother spoke English in the channeling, a language she hadn't known. The excuse the psychic gave was that "in Heaven everyone speaks English". Houdini then took it on himself to debunk all forms of supernatural claims, so much so in making a public claim that if anyone were to speak from the dead it would be him (and a seance is performed once a year by magicians to try to conjur him to no avail).

At his last show he had an intense fever, so intense that he passed out on stage. When revived he went back out and finished his show.



So Houdini. The skeptic, the escape artist, the magician, and the showman.
 

JayDub147

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Like some others on here, I would have to say Nikola Tesla. This is not to say that people don't have a high opinion of Tesla. It's simply that not enough people have heard of him. This was due to the very unfortunate rise of one Thomas Edison, a no-talent hack who revolutionized the American monopoly. Aside from cheating Tesla out of money, he proceeded to mount a smear campaign against Tesla because he managed to invent alternating current, a method of transmitting electricity that was superior to Edison's own direct current. He even went as far as electrocuting an elephant in front of a large crowd using Tesla's method, just to scare people. In fact, this was what led to the development of the electric chair by Edison's company, which used alternating current to kill its victims.
 
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Richard the third might require a review... despite his child-killing. He was still clearly capable of monstrous things, but he generally tried to be a good ruler of the country and before he came to power was strangely very loyal to Edward the IV who came before him, even when times were hard, he was one of the few who didn't keep switching sides. He was also incredibly brave, forget "...a kingdom for a horse" Richard died bravely, fighting suicidally and actually refusing a mount before being taken down by a halberd. I'll never forgive him for the what he did to lord Hastings though... Hastings was a truly loyal, honest man, and Richard killed him out of sheer paranoia... like the princes, a sickening waste of human life and a black stain on Richards character that runs just as deeply as the murder of the princes.

Nonetheless, perhaps Richard doesn't deserve to be classed as the archetypal monster of history. He's not guilty of being oppressive or sectarian and generally treated his subjects with kindness, possibly only to stop them from killing him of course. If he hadn't decided to sieze the crown, he would have gone down as one of the best regents the country has had. It is said that Richard may have discovered a family link making him the rightful heir. If this was the case, however, he need not have been so ruthless. It may be that the Wars of the Roses had taken their toll, and he had become paranoid and cynical. Whatever his motivation, he was a complex character who should not be automatically dismissed as a monster.

Like my view of William Wallace, I'll put him under the category of "man of his time." This applies especially to any possible personality changes caused by war-trauma.

He was a considerably more complex figure than Shakespeare would have you believe.
 

Booze Zombie

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Nietzsche needs less hate, he was a very intelligent man who's ideas were twisted by the Nazi death machine.
 

Pseudonym2

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steeltrain said:
Pseudonym2 said:
steeltrain said:
Richard Nixon, that way he won't be so angry when he becomes president again in a thousand years.
snip
quote]

Watch more Futurama
I got the Futurama reference. I just misunderstood you and assumed that you thought Nixon being president again would be a good thing.
 

Ares Tyr

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MaxTheReaper said:
Xiado said:
I know about the stuff the Allies did, but the Japanese were still ten times worse. Ever hear of the "Rape of Nanking"? It was a city, but rape could still be taken quite literally. Don't try Google Image search.
They should teach all of this in school.
I hate bias.
There's alot of things they should teach in school, which would make it both far more entertaining and far more inclusive as to the whole truth.

Like how awesome Teddy Roosevelt was (the guy was practically a superhuman). Or how Franz Ferdinand's true assassin happened to catch the opportunity to kill him by coincidence while enjoying his lunch. Not to imply that the Rape of Nanking was by any means awesome, but it is one of those "oh shit, that's brutal" things that every person should know about the darkness of human history.
 

Jagers1994

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steeltrain said:
Richard Nixon, that way he won't be so angry when he becomes president again in a thousand years.
Personally I think nixon deserves most of the hatred he gets.
 

Bulletinmybrain

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Ares Tyr said:
MaxTheReaper said:
Xiado said:
I know about the stuff the Allies did, but the Japanese were still ten times worse. Ever hear of the "Rape of Nanking"? It was a city, but rape could still be taken quite literally. Don't try Google Image search.
They should teach all of this in school.
I hate bias.
There's alot of things they should teach in school, which would make it both far more entertaining and far more inclusive as to the whole truth.

Like how awesome Teddy Roosevelt was (the guy was practically a superhuman). Or how Franz Ferdinand's true assassin happened to catch the opportunity to kill him by coincidence while enjoying his lunch. Not to imply that the Rape of Nanking was by any means awesome, but it is one of those "oh shit, that's brutal" things that every person should know about the darkness of human history.
Knowledge is power. They are keeping us down!

/Conspiracy_theory