People's Issue With Square Enix
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I'll give Square Enix credit where credit is due. I think they've done a lot of good things in recent years. After all, they're the publishers for both the new Metroidvania-esque Tomb Raider and Deus Ex: Human Revolution.
I'm just unhappy with how they've let the Final Fantasy series stagnate. It says a thing or two about the series when I'd rather play a remake of an old NES game (Final Fantasy III) than their latest installments in the series (XII, XIII and XIV).
I'm just unhappy with how they've let the Final Fantasy series stagnate. It says a thing or two about the series when I'd rather play a remake of an old NES game (Final Fantasy III) than their latest installments in the series (XII, XIII and XIV).
The annoying thing I've seen is that people mistake Japanese storytelling for cliche and bad writing. Perfect example is the stereotype of the emo JRPG hero, especially as it's attributed to Cloud. Specifically referring to the game, not Advent Children, Cloud is not emo. He simply isn't. He starts off as an apathetic, selfish jerk, but he's certainly not emo. At all. But people say he is, because talking about your problems equals being emo in many people's minds. And this happens with many JRPG characters.
Look, in the west, the key for writing is that less is more. Characters don't talk through their problems, said problems are implied through actions, or perhaps talked about briefly, but not in detail. In Japan, the key to complex characters is to give them deep and complex issues andhave them talk about them a bunch, both in explaining them and especially when they realize they need to get over it. That's a major cultural difference that is present in their games, anime, and even their live action stuff. It's all about the inner monologues and dialogue between characters to explain deep issues. It's not that they're emo, it's that they have some genuinely difficult stuff to work through and, in Japanese writing, they will talk about it. A lot. If you can't handle that, fine, but criticizing it as genuinely bad writing seems a little zenophobic.
Also, we need to stop saying that if a story is told through cutscenes, it's not good. Seriously guys, requiring a medium to take absolute full advantage of its uniqueness just to say it's good? That leads to disastrous places, people. Don't.
Point being, the common complaints about how Square Enix makes their games really don't have basis in anything but personal preference or cultural ignorance. I agree they haven't been at top form lately, but their games aren't completely sucking either. Also, The World Ends With You is one of the best games ever made. If you have a DS, play it, and if not, buy a DS and play it.
Look, in the west, the key for writing is that less is more. Characters don't talk through their problems, said problems are implied through actions, or perhaps talked about briefly, but not in detail. In Japan, the key to complex characters is to give them deep and complex issues andhave them talk about them a bunch, both in explaining them and especially when they realize they need to get over it. That's a major cultural difference that is present in their games, anime, and even their live action stuff. It's all about the inner monologues and dialogue between characters to explain deep issues. It's not that they're emo, it's that they have some genuinely difficult stuff to work through and, in Japanese writing, they will talk about it. A lot. If you can't handle that, fine, but criticizing it as genuinely bad writing seems a little zenophobic.
Also, we need to stop saying that if a story is told through cutscenes, it's not good. Seriously guys, requiring a medium to take absolute full advantage of its uniqueness just to say it's good? That leads to disastrous places, people. Don't.
Point being, the common complaints about how Square Enix makes their games really don't have basis in anything but personal preference or cultural ignorance. I agree they haven't been at top form lately, but their games aren't completely sucking either. Also, The World Ends With You is one of the best games ever made. If you have a DS, play it, and if not, buy a DS and play it.
I don't hate them, in fact, I like Square Enix. They have given me plenty of memorable and beloved titles, and for that I applaud them. However, they have definitely lost their touch, and have strayed from the gold-paved road they WERE creating for themselves. The thing with FFXIII is that, it was a disappointment as an FF game. Don't get me wrong, in some small way, it was still a success, for me the characters and story are memorable. (Thats not to say that they were greatly written at all, in fact I get the feeling that they were almost trying to remake another success like VII....However thats just my opinion, er, no need to get into that 
)
My point is, with the recent fails, Square Enix should really focus and stop getting such a big head about their history. Sometimes, with some of their releases, I feel like they think they can get away with garbage, just because of their name and previous success. Almost like an artist, who spends weeks on a painting, then when he sells it for a large ammount, he sees if lightning will strike twice and just quickly splashes some paint on a canvas calling it a masterpiece.
SE are just not putting enough consideration into games anymore, especially not with their FF series. However the thing with SE is that just when I decide they have truely failed in eyes, they feed my hope with another game that always ends up looking like diamond encrusted diamond next to their previous titles. SE better not screw up with FFXIII Versus. THAT or a FFVII remake (unlikely to happen) will definitely put my faith back into SE.
)My point is, with the recent fails, Square Enix should really focus and stop getting such a big head about their history. Sometimes, with some of their releases, I feel like they think they can get away with garbage, just because of their name and previous success. Almost like an artist, who spends weeks on a painting, then when he sells it for a large ammount, he sees if lightning will strike twice and just quickly splashes some paint on a canvas calling it a masterpiece.
SE are just not putting enough consideration into games anymore, especially not with their FF series. However the thing with SE is that just when I decide they have truely failed in eyes, they feed my hope with another game that always ends up looking like diamond encrusted diamond next to their previous titles. SE better not screw up with FFXIII Versus. THAT or a FFVII remake (unlikely to happen) will definitely put my faith back into SE.
The only Final Fantasy game I've ever played for any appreciable amount of time is the first one for the NES, so I'm not really qualified to make a judgement call on this. However, Noah Antwiler (aka "The Spoony One") gave his reasons for disliking the more recent editions in the franchise:
WARNING: potential NSFW content via language and (thankfully censored) examples of Rule 34:
http://spoonyexperiment.com/2007/09/12/final-fantasy-vii-review-part-6/
I don't agree with all the points he makes and personally I think he might be a bit too harsh (though I'm sure it's mostly for entertainment purposes), but I think he manages to bring up some good points for why the "old guard" might not like the direction Square Enix has gone in the past ten to twelve years.
Again, I don't really know that much about Final Fantasy, so feel free to correct me on this if you think this is way off the mark.
WARNING: potential NSFW content via language and (thankfully censored) examples of Rule 34:
http://spoonyexperiment.com/2007/09/12/final-fantasy-vii-review-part-6/
I don't agree with all the points he makes and personally I think he might be a bit too harsh (though I'm sure it's mostly for entertainment purposes), but I think he manages to bring up some good points for why the "old guard" might not like the direction Square Enix has gone in the past ten to twelve years.
Again, I don't really know that much about Final Fantasy, so feel free to correct me on this if you think this is way off the mark.
Sorry to butt in here, but I've seen it a lot too, and this site in particular has less than most of the population, but it has a few particular topics that have a lot of people that get on the hate train 'cause of all the people already on it. Halo is the infamous example on this site; for a while we would even warn new people to the forums to avoid making Halo threads because it would just get a bunch of people whining about how overrated Halo is. Call of Duty gets a lot of it here too, but Yahtzee has brought a lot of people who hate JRPGs for very unsubstantial, if not completely inaccurate or inapplicable, reasons. I'm not happy about it either, but the desire to "go against the mainstream" very, very often makes people hate something just 'cause it's popular until it actually gets popular to hate it. It's why you'll hear people say that a band was good until it got popular, as if the amount of people that liked it affected how good the music is. Hate to break your faith in humanity, but it deserves very little anyway; every time my faith in humanity has hit rock bottom, someone hands me a jackhammer.Hammeroj said:
I actually like Yahtzee. He's funny, while still making some legitimate points on the games he reviews. It is unfortunate that some people take his series as the word of god, though.Chibz said:
I'd certainly like to think so, but it does happen. Especially as I was originally talking about the gamer population in general, not just the Escapists. And I noted elsewhere in my original post, some people do have legitimate complaints, and that's perfectly fine. They dislike SquareEnix for their own personal, legitimate reasons, just like I dislike other games that they like for my own personal, legitimate reasons. It's just the people who hate because it's cool to hate that get me annoyed.Hammeroj said:
Isn't it? That game amazed me. The battle system was strange at first, but absolutely brilliant after I got the hang of it, and the story was incredible. I'm usually not one to go all, "it had good lessons!" on things, but the sheer amount of positive messages the game communicated through the character arcs and struggles was astounding. Also, the soundtrack is freaking awesome.Phoenix_XIII said:
One of the best RPGs I've ever played.
I've not particularly noticed any vast amount of bitching for Squeenix if I'm honest. Most of the bitching seems to be aimed at Activison or EA, not Squeenix.
Even then, I'm not sure why it particularly matters. If you enjoy the games that make/publish then other people bitching about them shouldn't matter that much to you.
Personally, they've made both good and bad games, but does that make any less interested in Deus Ex or Hitman: Absolution. Hell no.
Even then, I'm not sure why it particularly matters. If you enjoy the games that make/publish then other people bitching about them shouldn't matter that much to you.
Personally, they've made both good and bad games, but does that make any less interested in Deus Ex or Hitman: Absolution. Hell no.
These are just blanket statements. Although, you are entitled to them, as I am entitled to say this:Phoenix_XIII said:
I won't just say "All Squeenix games are bad", but I will say I haven't enjoyed an FF game in a while. FFX will be my example for now.
Things I didn't like in FFX:
No overworld map made the game very linear, and discouraged exploration, which is my favourite part of an RPG.
Really really really terrible voice acting and dialog.
Blitzball was very boring and annoying to play. I also found it to be awkward and clunky at best control wise.
The summons in previous FF games were always very epic. I felt like in FFX they were far more like glorified pokemon battles.
Things I did like in FFX:
The combat system was great. Using position to your advantage was very cleverly done.
The sphere upgrading system was very fun. Made you feel like you were choosing the growth your heroes were going through.
People are entitled to their opinions. But just randomly naming non-specific things as to why you hate/love a game or series or whatever is of course only going to upset people. No matter which side of the fence you sit on. I have never felt that this site or even yahtzee for that matter have not been providing real specific reasons as to why they don't like a game. Sometimes there is a bit of cynicism and humour tied in with those reasons, but hey, that's what makes them entertaining.
If you like the games, then really who cares what other people think? Play them and be happy! Screw everyone else!
Actually, Yahtzee technically recommended TWEWY in his review of it, saying "I feel like I'm on the edge of a frightening world I don't understand, treading water on the surface of a deep deep lake filled with weird-smelling creatures with completely alien concepts of fun, and a tolerance for boredom to rival the man in the iron mask. There's too much dialogue, the characters are the same shallow stocks you get in every JRPG, and most of the gameplay outside of the main story quest amounts to a big grind sandwich. But working from the principle that these are all selling points for the target audience, it's got an original aesthetic and the combat is okay so if you're into this sort of thing, check it out."Thaius said:
Except... Most videos I've seen of his, it's painfully obvious after a little while that he hardly played the game in question. His attempts at humour are juvenile at best, his grasp on gaming is flimsy.[footnote]Why should I have to respect the site's content & contributors when one of their contributors is basically a troll, and his "content" is little more than trolling?[/footnote]Thaius said:
For Rah's sake, I've actually seen it spend half a review talking about how he doesn't like games from japan, the system the game is on, and a completely unrelated game. When called out on being absolutely full of shit, he proceeded to personally attack the fans of the game in an "extra punctuation" article.
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As a fan of FF 1-10 i have increasing lost faith in Square Enix and the Final Fantasy Series, however as they now own Eidos (aka Square Enix Europe) which are making awesome games at the moment i cant abandon them completely.
Personally i feel Mistwalker Studios are more Square than Square Enix is now especially due to the fact it was started by the creator of Final Fantasy: Hironobu Sakaguchi and if you have played Blue Dragon or Lost Odyssey you might see why i feel this way.
Personally i feel Mistwalker Studios are more Square than Square Enix is now especially due to the fact it was started by the creator of Final Fantasy: Hironobu Sakaguchi and if you have played Blue Dragon or Lost Odyssey you might see why i feel this way.
Other peoples opinions are stupid. I don't understand why people don't just agree with me.
Am I right, OP?
Am I right, OP?
Whiny, entitled JRPG fans that think the world should cater to them alone, mostly. Hell I loved square when I was 12 & FF2, and I love them today with FF13, JC2, Deus, Lara, etc. Everyone on the internet thinks they're some kind of business & Game expert, and they try to use that to give their butthurt more meaning. But it's all basically "Wah wah, why you no name more emo FFs??! Boo 12. Boo 13. We want anime cliches!" at the heart of it.
