Plot holes in "Avatar"

[Altorin]

my biggest problem with it was that the avatar program seemed like a really stupid idea, as the subterfuge it offered was completely null.

The native na'vi KNEW that the RDA had an Avatar Program. They called them Dreamwalkers.. they might not have completely understood what they really were, but they knew that the Sky People had strange Na'Vi that were somehow loyal to them.

There was really no subterfuge. They knew that Jake was a Dreamwalker.

If we're going to go the dances with wolves analogy, imagine if Kevin Costner painted his face red, went out into the plains, met some native americans and just said "Hey, I'm white".

I was expecting there to be a bit more subterfuge, especially when Norm was practicing his Na'Vi speech, but there wasn't any. I imagine that there probably was some sort of stealth and trickery when the project first started, but by the time we get into the movie, the cover has been blown and I just felt odd about it.

 

[Altorin]

o i thought if you died as an avator then you died in real life. like the matrix

wasn't said anywhere in the movie that that was the case, although I can see how you might think that considering how they lamented over jack's lost avatar in the beginning (when he goes over the waterfall), but they never actually say that it would kill him if his avatar died.

However, from Norm's reaction to his avatar's death, it seems pretty clear that it actually feels like dying... It's like, dying and then you wake up and you still feel like you died.

(which by the way is any substance that is perfect for the job but is unfeasibly hard to get)

actually, what we call Unobtainium as a joke is any substance that would be perfect for a given task but doesn't actually exist, or hasn't been discovered or invented yet. The Unobtainium in the movie doesn't fit that mold at all and is therefore just a really really stupid name for a new compound. Unobtainium is a theoretical tool, basically allowing you to set certain aspects of a physics problem to 0 or infinity. (What would this motor be like if we made it with a completely frictionless material? for instance)

He was actually holding a rock of "unobtanium" in the movie.

 

[Canid117]

I could not understand the concept of time versus travel. At the beginning of the movie, weren't most of the travelers in deep sleep? How long did the journey take? I thought it was one of those "sleep for years" trips, but the head of the corporation says that they must clear the area to start mining because they had months to show a profit? Who would know on earth? How would these stockholders find out when they would mine? How soon could they get this "mined unobtainable unobtainium" back to earth? If it would take a hundred years to get the mineral back to earth, who would care? This is playing like a circle in my mind.......

They say "you have been asleep for five years and (Cant remember the number) months..."

And he had three months to get the Navi to move before the bulldozers showed up not before they had to show a profit

One has to assume that they can communicate at lightspeed (and/or instantaneously) and the ships cannot (thus they take a long time to travel)

Light speed is far from instantaneous. It is damn fast but it is still not instantaneous. 299,792,458 meters per second according to Wikipedia. And Alpha Centauri (The sun Pandora orbits according to Avatar Wiki) is about 4 and a half light years from our sun so the ship travels at about 70% the speed of light. (I am getting this from Wikipedia and James Camerons avatar wiki if you want to know my sources I could do the math myself but I am too lazy right now.) It is unknown if there is any method of exceeding the speed of light. Wormholes or quantum tunnels might do it but we cant produce the power to create artificial versions of those and physics hasn't even proven their existence yet. My guess is it would take 4 years for their reports to get back to earth. Radio waves like some other radiation on the electromagnetic spectrum (visible light and IR light etc not sure of microwaves or gamma radiation)travel at the speed of light. Isn't physics fun?

 

[TheNamlessGuy]

DELETED

 

[Casual Shinji]

And, more importantly: Have you seen Dances with Wolves? Because I'd not even heard of it until all the "Dances with Smurfs" bullshit, and now it's suddenly become extremely prevalent. Have I somehow completely missed a phenomonally well known classic or is everyone just jumping on the bandwagon?

The reason you didn't hear many people talk about Dances With Wolves before Avatar, was because Kevin Coster turned into a big douche after making it. And after being in horrible movies like Waterworld, The Postman and Rumor Has It, we all just wanted to forget about everything he's been in, even the good stuff.

 

[Laughing Man]

Want a proper plot hole. Given the level of technology they had and given by the fact that come the final bombing run the objective was simply to destroy the uprising plus the soul tree, rather than try and win the hearts and minds of the Na'vi, the question has to be asked why waste the number of people, man power, and equipment on the bombing run that they did. They are a space fairing race now so it surely would not have been beyond them to just nuke the place from orbit?

 

[dreadedcandiru99]

Want a proper plot hole. Given the level of technology they had and given by the fact that come the final bombing run the objective was simply to destroy the uprising plus the soul tree, rather than try and win the hearts and minds of the Na'vi, the question has to be asked why waste the number of people, man power, and equipment on the bombing run that they did. They are a space fairing race now so it surely would not have been beyond them to just nuke the place from orbit?

As I understand it, interstellar space flight had only just evolved to the point where the trip to Pandora was possible, it's pretty freaking expensive, the ship we saw at the beginning was the only one the humans had built to date, and it was a transport, not a bomber. I suppose they could do that in the inevitable sequel if the unobtainium is that important, but it'll take at least ten years (they said it was a five-year trip from Earth to Pandora, right?).

EDIT: And no, I don't think they could've used the shuttle. They'd have to jury-rig a heat shield and some sort of guidance system for that big pallet of explosives those guys had to push out the back, and even then, it might not have worked. Besides, as far as the humans knew at that point, bows and arrows were still useless against their choppers, so why go to the trouble?

ANOTHER EDIT: Also, even though the bows and arrows were working, the Na'vi still got slaughtered. Really, the only reason the tree didn't get demolished in the end was that the humans got Zerg-rushed by the planet itself.

 

[griffy00]

So i saw Avatar last night and was very impressed. But i was a little confused as to why humans are still using case bullets in their weapons. I mean it is the year 2154 you would have thought there would be some innovation in weapons designes (i.e caseless rounds, laser or plasma weapons etc.) Also, knowing James Camerons experience in military shoot-em-up type movies, i would think he would at least tried to show some technological progress in weaponry.
The door gunners in the transports look like they are using M-60 machine guns, which at that point would be almost 200 years old, i know they are probably new and improved, but i was disappointed with the lack of futuristic weaponry.

Also i feel that by that time some form of faster then light travel would have been discoverd (physicists have acknowledged the possibilty of warp speed like in star trek, in 150 years science should have come up with something.)
All this is nitpicky, but its hard to ignore some of those plot details that were left out. But this is just a movie so i should just appreciate it for what it was.

 

[House_Vet]

I don't think they were after resources that they needed and had run out of, they were after a certain resource that sold for alot. Basically, they were trying make money not survive.

That's bullshit. Why would there be such a high demand for this resource if it wasn't necessary?

It's called consumerism.

Also, how many people die in gang wars over illegal drugs and how many people have died for things like blood diamonds? They're certainly not necessary.

Do people lose billions of dollars worth of future tech when fighting over drugs? I don't think so. The value of the unobtanium would have to somehow outweigh all the money they spent trying to get it. And the only way something could be that valuable was if it was neccesary for human survival/expansion.

Or humanity/the particular people funding this project are greedy bastards who are really well off and don't give a damn about anybody but the bottom line.There are CEOs like that, even if they haven't taken it to the extent of Avatar (because they can't).

If you're arguing that it's a plothole in the movie fine, but from the movie it appears their motivation is nothing but greed.

And even if it hasn't all been in technology, the War on Drugs and the illegal activities it encourages have been a waste of billions of dollars.

That's what my problem is with the movie. You can't just say the only reason to do that is because of greed. It doesn't make sense.

Really? Like, really, honestly you believe that? Empires across the world, (and on a smaller level, tribes and peoples of various origins) have always sought to displace/subjugate/conquer/hegemonize the indigenous for one thing, and one thing only: Filthy Lucre. Case in point: British Empire - one of the world's smaller countries ruled most of the world - turned the map pink - for the purpose of a better economy. Nazi Germany? The Nazis dragged the German ECONOMY out of the dust with weapons production and the armed forces. That was the main reason they held such support (as far as I remember anyhow...).

 

[AnneSQF]

#2: So, where did Norm go? Did he just wander off into the jungle? Surely he would have gone to help his friend Jake, who was struggling for breath on the floor of the mobile outpost. We see him again later at the end, but where did he go?

When they sent the humans home Norm was there. Maybe I saw wrong, but it looked like he AND his avatar was there (my brother spotted that too). Anyway he stayed on the planet. Im irritated too, that they didnt tell about him, he was my favorite character of the movie.

 

[Nickolai77]

So i saw Avatar last night and was very impressed. But i was a little confused as to why humans are still using case bullets in their weapons. I mean it is the year 2154 you would have thought there would be some innovation in weapons designes (i.e caseless rounds, laser or plasma weapons etc.) Also, knowing James Camerons experience in military shoot-em-up type movies, i would think he would at least tried to show some technological progress in weaponry.
The door gunners in the transports look like they are using M-60 machine guns, which at that point would be almost 200 years old, i know they are probably new and improved, but i was disappointed with the lack of futuristic weaponry.

Yeah thats a good point- perhaps they where trying to create a vietnam-esque atmosphere? But i'm not quite sure about that. It could be argued that Cameron wanted to show the humans as industrial and technological. We where shown fumes and other greenhouse gasses escaping from the mecha robots and the dropships. Big,loud metal guns fit in better with these theme than shiny clean laser weapons would. Laser and plasma based weaponry are enviromentally friendly

On another point, swords where recognised as good, solid infantry weapons from the bronze age right up until the early modern period. Guns, roughly as we know them today, could last a good deal longer than most sci-fi authors would like to believe. For the simple reason that they are relativly cheap, easy to use, and always deadly.

 

[Smkoogle]

What about the fact that the main antagonist has no real reason for being the way he is or that this story is Dances With Wolves, with plot holes, white guilt and even seemingly, anti-human sentiment.

It's not anti-human. It's anti-idustry. Like eco-friendly: the Na'vi represent our species of animals and life. Our roots to the Earth itself. The humans represent greed and waste.

Basically we shouldnt go messing with other planets or ecosystem till we can deal with our own.

 

[Smkoogle]

If you go to the Avatar website and then go to Pandorapedia you'll see that they didnt NEED unobtaium they just wanted it because it would make traveling faster and easier.

 

[YoUnG205]

Not really plot holes.

I guessyou do ot see them again becuase they are no needed.

 

[Booze Zombie]

It's not anti-human. It's anti-idustry. Like eco-friendly: the Na'vi represent our species of animals and life. Our roots to the Earth itself. The humans represent greed and waste.

Basically we shouldnt go messing with other planets or ecosystem till we can deal with our own.

Like I need someone who didn't need to spend 600 million on making a CGI film but did anyway to tell me about waste...

 

[JemJar]

Tech Level Error

Fact 1) Humans are capable of biologically constructing, in tanks, completely functional creatures which they can control remotely, seemingly without lag, over a suitable distance despite signal losses and noise.

Fact 2) Humans still send infantry into the field and control their war machines (both airborne and walkers) by putting people in them and putting lives at risk.

If your biotechnology and signal processing technology is enough to make the Avatar programme even possible from a control point of view then there's no way real people would be put in the field, unmanned aircraft and tanks/walkers would dominate.

Fact 3) Said warmachines are mechanical not biological.

If your biotech was of a level capable of constructing entire functional organisms from DNA you can bet your ass that the first thing the military would do would not be "make fake aliens to talk to the aliens" it'd be "make me a humanoid body as big and strong as an elephant"

 

[Lemon Of Life]

Plot holes?
One for me is the fact that a human betrayed his fellow human to help aliens.
I personally don't understand why he would do it.

Because he liked the Na'vi more than the humans. Doesn't get more simple than that

And the Na'vi are hot.

Hey, you were all thinking it. All I did was step out and say it.

 

[WaderiAAA]

Plot holes?
One for me is the fact that a human betrayed his fellow human to help aliens.
I personally don't understand why he would do it.

Because he liked the Na'vi more than the humans. Doesn't get more simple than that

He's a traitor in my opinion.

No, it is one that believes their is something ultimately right in the universe. The Na'vis are intelligent, so they are the humans' equals. The humans have no right to just go in and destroy the aliens' homes, therefore Jake fights for what is right.