Poll: Are gamers today too self entitiled?

[AnarchistAbe]

ROFL, wut? The PC "fell" to a second tier platform, eh? When did this happen? Last time I looked I saw a ton of PC games available for me to play. I must've been dreaming! Or perhaps you're referencing the timeworn boom/bust cycle that happens every console generation, and you're engaging in wild hyperbole to make it sound a lot less mundane and predictable and low impact than it actually is.

You can't be serious...The large majority of PC titles are ports. Consoles are first tier, and everything else is second and beyond. This can be evidenced by the fact that some games don't even GET a PC port. Major titles, that are ONLY released for consoles. I repeat, second tier platform.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

You can't be serious...The large majority of PC titles are ports. Consoles are first tier, and everything else is second and beyond. This can be evidenced by the fact that some games don't even GET a PC port. Major titles, that are ONLY released for consoles. I repeat, second tier platform.

I'm completely serious. I've been a PC Gamer for almost 30 years, and there's a wider variety of quality titles now than there ever was. There's an occasional sloppy port, but most cross platform games shine on the PC, especially after a little modding, which allows you to customize them to your taste. There's also a ridiculous avalanche of "PC exclusives" in the form of the indie game market which you're conveniently overlooking.

I guess if I was a fan ONLY of AAA games in a few narrow genres, I could share in your "consoles get all the toys" boo-hooery, but I'm not, so I don't. You are flapping your arms in the air over a non-existent problem.

 

[AnarchistAbe]

You can't be serious...The large majority of PC titles are ports. Consoles are first tier, and everything else is second and beyond. This can be evidenced by the fact that some games don't even GET a PC port. Major titles, that are ONLY released for consoles. I repeat, second tier platform.

I'm completely serious. I've been a PC Gamer for almost 30 years, and there's a wider variety of quality titles now than there ever was. There's an occasional sloppy port, but most cross platform games shine on the PC, especially after a little modding, which allows you to customize them to your taste. There's also a ridiculous avalanche of "PC exclusives" in the form of the indie game market which you're conveniently overlooking.

I guess if I was a fan ONLY of AAA games in a few narrow genres, I could share in your "consoles get all the toys" boo-hooery, but I'm not, so I don't. You are flapping your arms in the air over a non-existent problem.

I see your point. But, publishers/devs will freely admit that consoles are their priority.

 

[OriginalLadders]

I voted other. It seems to me that gamers in general can get royally pissed off over complete non-issues, but are also capable of being thoroughly shafted on major issues and not care.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I see your point. But, publishers/devs will freely admit that consoles are their priority.

Wider audience, set hardware requirements. Of course it's the default platform. Doesn't make it the "best" platform, and it never killed the PC. The PC has ALWAYS been the most powerful/flexible platform. My gaming PC was better than my 360 when my 360 was new, and it runs circles around it now.

This is actually a really great time to be a PC Gamer. Digital distribution has provided access to games more quickly and cheaply than ever before, and it's created a veritable explosion of indie developers and niche genres that never could/would have existed before. In light of that, do I care if I need to wait a few weeks for a mod to give me proper UI support in Skyrim? A Skyrim, I might add, that already has better textures than the console version, and in a few months time will be completely overhauled and improved 1000% by an avalanche of mods?

I barely even touch my console any more, to be honest. I mostly hold on to it to play the occasional quirky exclusive, like Katamari Damacy.

 

[lord.jeff]

At least now people are complaining about things that are actually bad, instead of casual gamers and the free to play market.

 

[AnarchistAbe]

I see your point. But, publishers/devs will freely admit that consoles are their priority.

Wider audience, set hardware requirements. Of course it's the default platform. Doesn't make it the "best" platform, and it never killed the PC. The PC has ALWAYS been the most powerful/flexible platform. My gaming PC was better than my 360 when my 360 was new, and it runs circles around it now.

This is actually a really great time to be a PC Gamer. Digital distribution has provided access to games more quickly and cheaply than ever before, and it's created a veritable explosion of indie developers and niche genres that never could/would have existed before. In light of that, do I care if I need to wait a few weeks for a mod to give me proper UI support in Skyrim? A Skyrim, I might add, that already has better textures than the console version, and in a few months time will be completely overhauled and improved 1000% by an avalanche of mods?

I barely even touch my console any more, to be honest. I mostly hold on to it to play the occasional quirky exclusive, like Katamari Damacy.

I hardly ever touch my 360, and I can't remember the last time my PS3 was turned on, but I can't help but feel like publishers would rather write off the PC than to keep releasing games for it. All we hear from publishers anymore is "PC Piracy...Arrrg!". Just last week EPIC Games used PC Piracy as a leading cause of why we won't get a Bulletstorm 2.

 

[AnarchistAbe]

At least now people are complaining about things that are actually bad, instead of casual gamers and the free to play market.

Free to play gamers RUINED TF2 and MURDERED JFK!!!! They also lied to us about the existence of aliens, and caused the current financial crisis! Get your facts straight.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I hardly ever touch my 360, and I can't remember the last time my PS3 was turned on, but I can't help but feel like publishers would rather write off the PC than to keep releasing games for it. All we hear from publishers anymore is "PC Piracy...Arrrg!". Just last week EPIC Games used PC Piracy as a leading cause of why we won't get a Bulletstorm 2.

Well, the used games kerfuffle is just the piracy argument in a different hat. If the gaming industry wasn't bleating about a financial bogeyman they wouldn't know what to do with themselves. The death of the PC game market was hypothesized about ever since the first consoles wriggled their way out of the muck, and it never happened. You'll hear about it again when the 720 and PS4 come out, and once again it won't go anywhere, and in less than a year's time the average gaming PC will once again be more powerful than the consoles, which will remain stagnant for another 4-5 years.

 

[zf6hellion]

I have noticed just recently that a large number of gamers seem to complain alot about many things they feel they are entitled to. For example a better ending for Mass Effect 3 and just recently the removal/alternative to Games for Windows Live for the PC release of Dark Souls. I know that the ending for ME was pretty bad and there are many threads out there discussing that, but this is not about that.

Whenever anything that people don't like is announced or found there always seems to be a massive uproar about it with petitions and many angry posts flying over the internet. This is by no way a new thing but just recently its exploded in popularity.

TLDR- Are we as gamers too self entitled today or are we right in demanding things be changed just because we don't like it?

I think its alright to complain about some things such as witheld game content but I don't think its right to demand that a developer change their games story just because people don't like it.

Well I look at it this way.

Someone promises you something, you buy something based on that promise.

That promise turns out to be complete bullshit. You have every right to demand change and/or your money back because you were basically conned.

And yes, this does apply to BioWare and Mass Effect 3 "It won't just have an A, B, C ending".

 

[Sutter Cane]

Yes, but not because they are complaining. As consumers we have the right to complain about something we feel is not right.

The reason they're "too self-entitled" is their attitudes that surround those complains.

The attitude is that they are always right and there is absolutely no way they are wrong.
Too many dismiss any arguments that disagree with their complaint without even trying to see it from another point of view, and thus they make little to no effort to defend their position.

Not backing up your point makes it look like you don't have a point.

It doesn't matter how right you are, or how poor the counter-argument is. When you simply dismiss any counter-arguments, you make yourself look self-entitled. Just yelling, "F*** YOU!! You don't understand!" is not how you argue a case. Unfortunately it seems that's all many gamers can do, or are willing to do.

The attitude can be summed as follows:

"I'm right and anyone who disagrees is a (insert insult of choice here)!"

PC gamers are the worst about this, but that probably is simply because they're also the most vocal. It's simply the Law of Averages.

Nothing wrong with being vocal. Certainly console gamers could stand to be a little more vocal.
It's just when you take the flawed attitude of, "the customer is always right even when wrong," is when you cross the line from concerned consumer to self-entitled brat.

this post is absolutely correct

 

[worldruler8]

I hardly ever touch my 360, and I can't remember the last time my PS3 was turned on, but I can't help but feel like publishers would rather write off the PC than to keep releasing games for it. All we hear from publishers anymore is "PC Piracy...Arrrg!". Just last week EPIC Games used PC Piracy as a leading cause of why we won't get a Bulletstorm 2.

Well, the used games kerfuffle is just the piracy argument in a different hat. If the gaming industry wasn't bleating about a financial bogeyman they wouldn't know what to do with themselves. The death of the PC game market was hypothesized about ever since the first consoles wriggled their way out of the muck, and it never happened. You'll hear about it again when the 720 and PS4 come out, and once again it won't go anywhere, and in less than a year's time the average gaming PC will once again be more powerful than the consoles, which will remain stagnant for another 4-5 years.

I know I'm not part of the conversation, but I always viewed the consoles as a product that was "easier" to deal with. In which I mean, with a computer, you have all your personal things on it, and you need to have knowledge of computers in order to make the most of it (and most people don't. My mother still doesn't know what a "tab" is on internet browsers, let alone that Internet Explorer isn't the only internet browser). It's sort of a trade-off, and when I was younger, the Xbox seemed to be the simpler choice. The PC's market always seemed (when the 360 came out) that you got what you paid for, and if you wanted something with more flexibility and more computing power, well, you better pay up. Now I'm on my way to getting a job, and I already can tell that despite the extra strings, the PC market is something I'd like to join, especially since I'll hopefully be getting a job soon. But once again, consumers will gravitate to what they prefer. If consumers want consoles, they want easier, albeit more constricted, gameplay platforms. If they want PC games, they want more flexibility, and games that reach the epitome of the technology they have. If they have something twice as powerful as a 360, they want a game that has twice the computing power. It's just expected.

 

[Sutter Cane]

or to put it in a slightly different way:

disliking a game = fine

complaining about a game = fine

petitioning a game company to make a change = fine

acting like you should have authorial control over a work simply because you're a fan = entitled.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I know I'm not part of the conversation, but I always viewed the consoles as a product that was "easier" to deal with. In which I mean, with a computer, you have all your personal things on it, and you need to have knowledge of computers in order to make the most of it (and most people don't. My mother still doesn't know what a "tab" is on internet browsers, let alone that Internet Explorer isn't the only internet browser). It's sort of a trade-off, and when I was younger, the Xbox seemed to be the simpler choice. The PC's market always seemed (when the 360 came out) that you got what you paid for, and if you wanted something with more flexibility and more computing power, well, you better pay up. Now I'm on my way to getting a job, and I already can tell that despite the extra strings, the PC market is something I'd like to join, especially since I'll hopefully be getting a job soon. But once again, consumers will gravitate to what they prefer. If consumers want consoles, they want easier, albeit more constricted, gameplay platforms. If they want PC games, they want more flexibility, and games that reach the epitome of the technology they have. If they have something twice as powerful as a 360, they want a game that has twice the computing power. It's just expected.

Yep. You elucidate nicely one of the perfectly legitimate reasons why the console market is bigger than the PC market. Bigger just doesn't mean better, necessarily, and it certainly doesn't mean the PC market is doomed to extinction. It's just a smaller market aimed a slightly different demographic.

Besides which, a true gaming enthusiast goes multi-platform anyway! =D

acting like you should have authorial control over a work simply because you're a fan = entitled.

Ya know, this has been bugging me for some time now. No one is asserting authorial control. If they were, they'd be insisting that they be allowed to write the ending themselves. They are attempting to assert authorial influence. Which is perfectly commonplace.

 

[Chairman Miaow]

This is a thread about gamer entitlement. Your post was saying that this wouldn't happen in other mediums. But it has. It's irrelevant whether or not it's ok, it has happened.

I hope to fucking God you're kidding. My point was that this happens far more frequently in gaming rather than it never happens anywhere else. I was using hyperbole to emphasise my point.

Name me any examples other than ME. People complain about these things all the time, in all mediums, for something to be demanded changed is rare, in all mediums. and no need to be rude about it.

L4D2 (they wanted it as a free expansion).
Day-1 DLC (like it or not, it happens, and your aren't ENTITLED to that content for free).
MW2/MW3 dedicated servers.
Dark Souls PC port.
Pre-Order DLC (believe it or not, I still hear bitching about this).
Online Passes.
Annual Sports Games as roster updates.

And these are just things off the top of my head. Not really even thinking that hard... But, Should I continue?

Bitching is not the same as demanding it be changed. I never heard anything about the L4D2 thing, and I could understand why it should be DLC rather than a new game, it's basically the same, but definitely not for free. I definitely don't see what's wrong with wanting dedicated servers or to be able to play a game on a certain platform. Pre-order DLC is perfectly fine, and I don't understand why people complain about it, same for sports games, but it's just people voicing complaints, it does no harm. I can understand why people complain about online passes, but I disagree, I think used games are bad for the industry, but that's a discussion for another time. I wasn't saying people didn't *****. People ***** about everything. Hell, people ***** about people bitching, and about people bitching about people bitching. I was saying that people don't demand for things to be changed anymore than in any other medium. And besides, you are on a games site, I bet if you were in a book club there would be just as much complaining.

 

[The Unworthy Gentleman]

Even more deluded words.

No, you have the power to complain when you dislike the game and that's it, even when they falsely advertise. Yes, they have to pander to the market but if you didn't like it then they don't have to change it. They don't even have to change it if the entire market complains because they already have their money, you've already given them all the reason you felt so entitled in the first place.

Why do you think having money makes you so fucking special? You're not the only one and mainstream games can fuck up and still be successful regardless of what you think of them. You don't have any power with regards to the games design aside from 'will they like this feature?' Your after release opinion is worth jack shit once you've given them your money.

All this entitlement you claim because you're the consumer is gone because you've already consumed. How much more can I drive the point into you that you as an individual have absolutely no way of controlling a company's creative endeavours and therefore have no individual entitlement. The only entitled party is the market, which you make up a meagre percentage of, and they're entitled to a game the company has advertised; the only thing that matters pre-release is demand.

False advertisement is different. Then you have a legit complaint and should talk to the relevant administrations to deal with it. One thing you can't do is demand a game be changed so it suits the advertisement. Bioware and EA are just saving face with this DLC.

Name me any examples other than ME. People complain about these things all the time, in all mediums, for something to be demanded changed is rare, in all mediums. and no need to be rude about it.

My sincere apologies for any offence but you have to realise that this topic is ridiculous. The notion that the consumer preference should have any sway past 'lots of people use this way' for distribution is ridiculous; the idea that consumers have the power to change creative works is equally stupid too.

I'm not going to name examples though, I simply can't. I'm only human so I haven't remembered each case and I don't really want to spend my time trawling the internet searching for examples. I think the fact that 40% of people think that it's a problem is evidence enough that it is. It might not be a majority but it's still large enough to constitute acknowledgement that there is an issue.

 

[Chairman Miaow]

Name me any examples other than ME. People complain about these things all the time, in all mediums, for something to be demanded changed is rare, in all mediums. and no need to be rude about it.

My sincere apologies for any offence but you have to realise that this topic is ridiculous. The notion that the consumer preference should have any sway past 'lots of people use this way' for distribution is ridiculous; the idea that consumers have the power to change creative works is equally stupid too.

I'm not going to name examples though, I simply can't. I'm only human so I haven't remembered each case and I don't really want to spend my time trawling the internet searching for examples. I think the fact that 40% of people think that it's a problem is evidence enough that it is. It might not be a majority but it's still large enough to constitute acknowledgement that there is an issue.

I'm really sorry but I just can't understand why consumer preference should have no sway. The product is being made FOR the consumer, surely they should listen to what the consumer wants?