Poll: Boycott Rage

[teisjm]

Or the factor of them being developers meens that they set the standards for what you must do. I know some buisness practices are wrong, thats very obvious. Not including stuff to prevent people from torrenting it or getting second hand sales a few days after seems pretty reasonable to me because it isnt effecting those that purchases the game. And thats just it, they are requireing you to merely, "BUY" the game. Explain to me what is wrong with this. I may be overlooking some huge factor but currently I don't see it with this complaint.

The question

The answer:

Or the factor of them being developers meens that they set the standards for what you must do. I know some buisness practices are wrong, thats very obvious. Not including stuff to prevent people from torrenting it or getting second hand sales a few days after seems pretty reasonable to me because it isnt effecting those that purchases the game. And thats just it, they are requireing you to merely, "BUY" the game. Explain to me what is wrong with this. I may be overlooking some huge factor but currently I don't see it with this complaint.

I would like to know how this is wrong too.

What is wrong is this, Imagine if you buy a CD, then after a while you borrow it to a friend of yours, this is not piracy, this is not illegal, but suddenly, all the tracks stop 30 seconds too early, would you be pissed?
Imaine the same for a film, you borrow a blu-ray movie from a friend, a real piece of eye candy, and it won't show in HD, because your fingerprints doesn't match the prints registered at release.
Or if the book you rad after your spouse had finished reading it suddenly lacked the last 10 pages.
You get my point

If you BUY the game, you'd think you you could do with it what you wanted, save pirate it, even pass it along to someone, which is nowhere the same as pirating, cause you're giving it up in the process, but the anti-resale initiatives made by game companies, more or less turns you BUYING it into buying permission to use it with limitations that shouldn't be there.
It would be like a car salesman forbidding you to drive your wife to work in the car you bought from him, cause if you didn't she might be forced to buy one herself, and hence you'd theoreticly cost him money by removing her need to buy one

 

[Dastardly]

You see sometimes you DON'T want to support a publisher but you might still want play the game and not go to federal prison. You might enjoy the game but you want to send a message to the developer that you hate their DRM. What this kinda of stunt does is make impossible to give that sort of feedback. Now people need to not buy the game at all to send in that capitalist vote that says "your product sucks you don't get me money".

Why do you buy games that you think suck? That's not rational human behavior. If you want to send the message that a game sucks, try behaving as though you believe the game sucks. If you want to play it, you must not think it sucks... or you're a crazy person, perhaps? Can't be sure.

Even still, buying a used game should be seen as an opportunity to gain valuable data.

To what end? Using this data to make the game better won't improve sales if you can get that same "now more awesome" game at used prices. The only way used sales data is useful to a publisher is to answer the question, "How much money are we losing by not ensuring that the new product is more valuable than a used product?"

The consumer isn't the enemy and we need to stop being treated like we are.

You aren't being treated like "an enemy." You're just not being treated like a friend. There's a difference. If my friend comes to the door, I let him in. If my enemy comes to the door, I swear at him and send him away with a call to the cops. If a stranger, neither friend nor enemy comes to the door, I behave in a more neutral fashion until I tell if he's one or the other.

If you're buying used, you aren't a customer. Not to the publisher. You and the publisher have entered no transaction whatsoever, so you're not even on their radar. Why should they let you in, when you haven't shown them you're a friend?

 

[Epona]

1) Do you read every EULA, every word?

2) If you don't agree to the terms, what are you options? Remember, there is no returning an opened game.

The EULA is one-sided and powerless. You waste your time reading it, I won't because in the end the words don't matter, the DRM does.

1) I usualy read them every few years, they don't change that much between companies. If you rea donce you know what the others will inlucde.

2) Again, from SC2 EULA, because that's the only EULA i actually have on PC right now

4. Service and Terms of Use. As mentioned above, you must accept the Terms of Use in order to access the Service to play the Game.
The Terms of Use agreement governs all aspects of game play. If you do not agree with the Terms of Use, then (a) you may not register for
an Account to play the Game; and (b) you may arrange to return the Game to the place where you purchased it within thirty (30) days of
the original purchase. Once you accept the License Agreement and the Terms of Use, you will no longer be eligible for a refund.

So it's a crappy shop and you should speak with the manager if they don't want to take your game back.

I don't know of any place that will take an opened PC game back for a refund. Do you?

 

[Dastardly]

I've actually had many conversations with developers on that very subject, so actually, I do know which is which. Also, I see the tactic as rewarding someone for buying new, you see it as punishing someone for buying used. Both are equally valid perspectives.

Even if they were pulling content for this purpose, how is that wrong? As mentioned in some of my replies above, games don't depreciate. Cars do, so when you buy a used car, you're paying less because you're essentially getting less.

Games don't work that way. An old copy of Arkham Asylum doesn't feature an older, slower Batman with transmission problems and a broken A/C.

I would totally play that game.

Only if the batmobile has a Carfax.

 

[Mxrz]

I hate people who think like this, even if most of them are too young to understand. You aren't a customer of the developers when you buy used, so fuck off. They don't care what you think. ***** to gamestop or where ever you buy used at instead.

 

[Epona]

Or the factor of them being developers meens that they set the standards for what you must do. I know some buisness practices are wrong, thats very obvious. Not including stuff to prevent people from torrenting it or getting second hand sales a few days after seems pretty reasonable to me because it isnt effecting those that purchases the game. And thats just it, they are requireing you to merely, "BUY" the game. Explain to me what is wrong with this. I may be overlooking some huge factor but currently I don't see it with this complaint.

The question

The answer:

Or the factor of them being developers meens that they set the standards for what you must do. I know some buisness practices are wrong, thats very obvious. Not including stuff to prevent people from torrenting it or getting second hand sales a few days after seems pretty reasonable to me because it isnt effecting those that purchases the game. And thats just it, they are requireing you to merely, "BUY" the game. Explain to me what is wrong with this. I may be overlooking some huge factor but currently I don't see it with this complaint.

I would like to know how this is wrong too.

What is wrong is this, Imagine if you buy a CD, then after a while you borrow it to a friend of yours, this is not piracy, this is not illegal, but suddenly, all the tracks stop 30 seconds too early, would you be pissed?
Imaine the same for a film, you borrow a blu-ray movie from a friend, a real piece of eye candy, and it won't show in HD, because your fingerprints doesn't match the prints registered at release.
Or if the book you rad after your spouse had finished reading it suddenly lacked the last 10 pages.
You get my point

If you BUY the game, you'd think you you could do with it what you wanted, save pirate it, even pass it along to someone, which is nowhere the same as pirating, cause you're giving it up in the process, but the anti-resale initiatives made by game companies, more or less turns you BUYING it into buying permission to use it with limitations that shouldn't be there.
It would be like a car salesman forbidding you to drive your wife to work in the car you bought from him, cause if you didn't she might be forced to buy one herself, and hence you'd theoreticly cost him money by removing her need to buy one

Excellent! This is put very well and I completely agree.

To avoid a low content warning though let me add something. Shouldn't it be against the law to tamper with consumer ownership rights?

 

[WaruTaru]

Me wanting to save money by buying used is reasonable. On the other hand, me wanting to save money by pirating the game would not be legal. My example is designed to show that me wanting to save money doesn't condone "by any means possible". Likewise, it is reasonable that publishers want to increase sales and make money but it is not reasonable to punish customers to do it as it will only lead to some people resorting to piracy to get the full game. No one would need to do that without this restriction.

Your reason to do something is based on the legality of said action, yet when the law says that action is now illegal, you choose to ignore it for your own convenience?

Also, do you know what is protecting software from piracy? The EULA. By saying that it is not enforceable unless it went to court, that means pirates could pirate away all those software until they are caught and brought to court. If the EULA is not there, all the other Intellectual Property law can easily be bypassed with some modification on the software itself.

 

[Epona]

I hate people who think like this, even if most of them are too young to understand. You aren't a customer of the developers when you buy used, so fuck off. They don't care what you think. ***** to gamestop or where ever you buy used at instead.

...and yet they are trying to screw over people who aren't even their customers.

 

[MLionheart]

I actually agree with there way of handling Rage.
Unlike things like DRM and the like, this only affects those that actually buy the game used.
I don't blame them for wanting to stop places that sell second hand games from getting the profits.
In all fairness, I'd rather give my money to the developers, who spent money and years of there time into making the game, and not some shop who put no effort into earning that sale other than appeal to cheapskates.

 

[Keava]

I don't know of any place that will take an opened PC game back for a refund. Do you?

I never had to do it, because i never had issues with that. I never even consider buying a game used. If i can't afford it i just don't buy it and wait for a it to be discounted half year later if i still am interested in it.

But if that would happen i'd request seeing the shop manager and argue with them that their deal with a publisher who supplied them with that game is pretty much forced to respect their own EULA and should refund them the "lost sale" upon returning the game. Simple as that.

 

[GonzoGamer]

Or the factor of them being developers meens that they set the standards for what you must do. I know some buisness practices are wrong, thats very obvious. Not including stuff to prevent people from torrenting it or getting second hand sales a few days after seems pretty reasonable to me because it isnt effecting those that purchases the game. And thats just it, they are requireing you to merely, "BUY" the game. Explain to me what is wrong with this. I may be overlooking some huge factor but currently I don't see it with this complaint.

I would like to know how this is wrong too.

I'd like to know that as well.

If you don't like it then why don't you go after the retailers for this, why do you have to hurt and go after the developers for this?

The problem is that consumers who buy used are still considered (legally) to be legitimate consumers but they aren't being treated as such. At this point, those who pirate get more content.

It's the developers (publishers really) who should be "going after" the retailers. They are the morons who aren't stealing back their customers with better trade ins and used prices. Have you ever seen the used prices/trade-in values at gamestop? It isn't exactly competitive. And with online connectivity to all the consoles, they can get the word out directly to the right consumers.

I think the only reason developers haven't gone after retailers for this is probably because the publishers are in the way, and have probably told the developers to back off. I've done trade-ins at Gamestop and it's down right criminal, and I've only bought one used game ever and after doing some reading on that and I felt ripped off.

Maybe I'm just a little cynical on the whole deal, but I just don't really see publishers going after retailers for this. Not when the bottom line and money is involved anyways.

Of course not. Why would they go after retailers when it's so much easier to make the legitimate consumers (who are usually so willing to get ripped off by a company that makes games they like) pay.
That's why I think all these publishers that complain about used game sales are overreacting and using it as an excuse to pull schemes like Day 1 DLC and Online Pass things. If they were really concerned and the situation was that dire, they would try and set up something that would intercept trade ins and used sales which would make money for them in the process.
It's like with oil prices: if they can come up with an excuse, they will use it. At this point it's just really transparent to the point of being insulting.

 

[blizzaradragon]

1) Do you read every EULA, every word?

2) If you don't agree to the terms, what are you options? Remember, there is no returning an opened game.

The EULA is one-sided and powerless. You waste your time reading it, I won't because in the end the words don't matter, the DRM does.

1) I usualy read them every few years, they don't change that much between companies. If you rea donce you know what the others will inlucde.

2) Again, from SC2 EULA, because that's the only EULA i actually have on PC right now

4. Service and Terms of Use. As mentioned above, you must accept the Terms of Use in order to access the Service to play the Game.
The Terms of Use agreement governs all aspects of game play. If you do not agree with the Terms of Use, then (a) you may not register for
an Account to play the Game; and (b) you may arrange to return the Game to the place where you purchased it within thirty (30) days of
the original purchase. Once you accept the License Agreement and the Terms of Use, you will no longer be eligible for a refund.

So it's a crappy shop and you should speak with the manager if they don't want to take your game back.

I don't know of any place that will take an opened PC game back for a refund. Do you?

Actually Toys 'R Us took back both my opened copy of Starcraft 2 and World of Warcraft: Cataclysm with no fuss. Albeit because their policy states that they don't give cash refunds it had to be in store credit, but I essentially got my money back.

 

[Mxrz]

Yes, they're totally screwing them over by. . . giving their paying customers something extra for their support. Goddamn, that is some true evil there.

 

[Epona]

Me wanting to save money by buying used is reasonable. On the other hand, me wanting to save money by pirating the game would not be legal. My example is designed to show that me wanting to save money doesn't condone "by any means possible". Likewise, it is reasonable that publishers want to increase sales and make money but it is not reasonable to punish customers to do it as it will only lead to some people resorting to piracy to get the full game. No one would need to do that without this restriction.

Your reason to do something is based on the legality of said action, yet when the law says that action is now illegal, you choose to ignore it for your own convenience?

Also, do you know what is protecting software from piracy? The EULA. By saying that it is not enforceable unless it went to court, that means pirates could pirate away all those software until they are caught and brought to court. If the EULA is not there, all the other Intellectual Property law can easily be bypassed with some modification on the software itself.

LOL. I needed a laugh.

Oh, you were serious?

I don't understand your first sentence (other than as a joke). Where did I say I ignore legality for my own convenience? Anyway, reasoning and legality are not the same thing. For example, it is legal (as far as I know) for publishers to mess with ownership rights by reducing the value of a product after you buy it but I don't think it is reasonable.

No, what makes software piracy illegal are copyright laws. Do you know what those do? They prevent people from making illegal copies and selling or giving them away. In other words, the outline who can make legal copies and who can't (save a backup). The EULA is powerless unless YOU give it power.

 

[Epona]

Yes, they're totally screwing them over by. . . giving their paying customers something extra for their support. Goddamn, that is some true evil there.

They are devaluing the product once it is purchased.

 

[Drizzitdude]

No, it doesn't need to stop. Developers don't get a CENT from someone buying the game used. Gamestop and other used game companies keep all the profits from used games; they don't politely give the developers or publishers some money for that game. THAT is why they are doing these day 1 DLC things... so they can try to still earn profits from used sales.

If you care about video games and want to support the industry, then buy new. If you don't give a shit and just want to save yourself money, then feel free to buy used, but don't ***** when game developers are trying to recuperate the loses of someone playing their game without giving them money because you don't want to support the industry.

Go boycott something fucking meaningful... not this.

and what about int he future huh? When a game is by no means new anymore but there are stiil people who haven't gotten a chance to play it? developers cutting content to make people buy it new isn't helping the situation. And honestly, the poeple who DO buy it new were pretty much already going to anyway, not because they were responding to getting bullied into it by the devloper. It's not like the game developers are going to lose money in the first month or so of sales when the big money comes in because there will be so little used copies available that it won't matter.

Also, don't places such as gamestop buy games IN BULK? I always thought they are the ones who pay the developer not us. We pay gamestop for games, gamestop pays the company for the game, company makes money regardless as long as their product is on the shelves. IF we buy a game new or used gamestop (or whatever you medium of buying games) will most likely have to restock if its a newer title which gives them even more money.

 

[DeltaWolfson]

No, it doesn't need to stop. Developers don't get a CENT from someone buying the game used. Gamestop and other used game companies keep all the profits from used games; they don't politely give the developers or publishers some money for that game. THAT is why they are doing these day 1 DLC things... so they can try to still earn profits from used sales.

If you care about video games and want to support the industry, then buy new. If you don't give a shit and just want to save yourself money, then feel free to buy used, but don't ***** when game developers are trying to recuperate the loses of someone playing their game without giving them money because you don't want to support the industry.

Go boycott something fucking meaningful... not this.

Thank you! just what I was about too say.

 

[Epona]

1) Do you read every EULA, every word?

2) If you don't agree to the terms, what are you options? Remember, there is no returning an opened game.

The EULA is one-sided and powerless. You waste your time reading it, I won't because in the end the words don't matter, the DRM does.

1) I usualy read them every few years, they don't change that much between companies. If you rea donce you know what the others will inlucde.

2) Again, from SC2 EULA, because that's the only EULA i actually have on PC right now

4. Service and Terms of Use. As mentioned above, you must accept the Terms of Use in order to access the Service to play the Game.
The Terms of Use agreement governs all aspects of game play. If you do not agree with the Terms of Use, then (a) you may not register for
an Account to play the Game; and (b) you may arrange to return the Game to the place where you purchased it within thirty (30) days of
the original purchase. Once you accept the License Agreement and the Terms of Use, you will no longer be eligible for a refund.

So it's a crappy shop and you should speak with the manager if they don't want to take your game back.

I don't know of any place that will take an opened PC game back for a refund. Do you?

Actually Toys 'R Us took back both my opened copy of Starcraft 2 and World of Warcraft: Cataclysm with no fuss. Albeit because their policy states that they don't give cash refunds it had to be in store credit, but I essentially got my money back.

You got a credit, not a refund.

 

[Cenequus]

I rather buy the game new rather than pay for day 1 DLC. So no especially when we're talking about a new IP which if doesn't sell well in the first month(new copies) will have no follow up no matter how good the game is.

 

[Keava]

Of course not. Why would they go after retailers when it's so much easier to make the legitimate consumers (who are usually so willing to get ripped off by a company that makes games they like) pay.
That's why I think all these publishers that complain about used game sales are overreacting and using it as an excuse to pull schemes like Day 1 DLC and Online Pass things. If they were really concerned and the situation was that dire, they would try and set up something that would intercept trade ins and used sales.
It's like with oil prices: if they can come up with an excuse, they will use it.

Because if they would go after retailers, said retailers would simply say "Fine, we just don't stock your games any more, have fun", and even with how growing the digital distribution is, retail still makes nearly 50% of sales, probably more when it comes to consoles.

In the end, if you buy in retail rather than used you are getting full deal. I can't really see how Online Pass or Day 1 DLC hurts the gamer that buys games "as intended" rather than trying to get it marginally cheaper through the used sale offered at the retailer.