Poll: Do you guys actually enjoy the dumbing down of games ?

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stiborge

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Well, I mean really it boils down to fun. Is the game fun, and/or is the story good. The most complex system in the world doesn't work if the game isn't fun and if dumbing down the game makes the game more fun then why not. Even though I realize that it's kind of stupid to quote Yahtzee on The Escapist but I think he had it right on when he said, "I'd rather be stupid and having fun then bored out of my giant brain." or something along those lines.

Just because a game doesn't have a million character classes and absolute character/weapon customization doesn't mean it's not a good game. Of coarse there is a line and if games do too much to incorporate a more mainstream audience at the cost of hardcore gamers then that get's annoying but otherwise I have to give it a "Yay" based off your lack of a middle option, sorry.
 

Flying-Emu

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You're complaining because Mass Effect's shitty inventory system was fixed.

Seriously? People will complaina bout anything today.
 

2012 Wont Happen

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I like games that are "cinematic" in that I think that cutscenes are a good medium for storytelling in game, albeit an overused one, and I prefer my games to make me care why I'm murdering tons of dudes.

On the other hand, I like complex games too.

So, the cinema minus the "accessibility" would be nice.
 

Cosplay Horatio

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No I don't. I like being challenged and the joy of succeeding that challenge makes me a better gamer. Right now I have two, Gear of War on Insane mode on the train trying to fight off a horde of Reaver Riding Locusts on my own because I have no internet connection. The second is getting a perfect Crucible Challenge but the Rock Troll is troublesome to defeat within the time limit and trying to hold a high enough entertainment rate. Thank God for save points.
 

Niallb

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Any new shooter that comes out now i will immediately notch up the difficulty because i know for the most part normal is not meant for someone who has been playing shooters or rpgs most of their life. On Mass effect 2 veteran had the perfect amount of challenge for me, i would be punnished for my mistakes and have oh shit moments when i would only just make it to cover in time.

As for the inventory system for me most rpg inventorys are about my charcter looking badass not increasing stats because for the most part thats all new weapons are, a little more damage but looks better. This was all the inventory system was in mass effect 1 but without the increased badassary, most of the armor looked the same and the tiny difference in the guns barely mattered cause you were staring at sheperd's back for 90% of the game. The best inventory systems are the ones with lateral choices where it comes down to personal preference, Mass effect 2 actually took a step towards that . Do i want a slower rate of fire but more accurate assault rifle or do i want a fully autamatic with enough recoil to break an ordinary man's arm, do i want increased run speed or better shields. I want 5 or 6 options each with its own advantages and disadvantages not 100 options all the same but each a bit better than the last.

Deus ex 1 is still one of my favourite games of all time but i don't think the all in one ammo was dumbing down. Yeah it sucked, i mean really sucked but really it had to make you really think when to use your more powerful weapons because if you used them for more than a few shots your were down to your stun stick. Bollocks yes, dumbing down no.
 

Anticitizen_Two

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I'm against the dumbing down of games. They shouldn't be overcomplicated, but when you get to a point where campaigns last for six hours and the player has very little input into the game, games start to become too much like movies.
 

Jandau

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DaedalusIcarus said:
So, my question is, am I the only person who gets put off by this push towards "cinematic" experiences at the cost of core gameplay mechanics being dumbed down ?
Your question is loaded. I could just as well ask you if you preffer obtuse game mechanics that need a guide and a spreadsheet to navigate or accessible games that focus on the fun parts.

Also, there's a difference between "complex" and "cluttered" or "unintuitive"...
 

Weaver

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daheikmeister said:
In case of ME2: before the change in order to be ready for combat I had to individually check the armor and weapons of each of your six team-mates, buy new upgrades, and generally do what people do in a RPG.
Probably because it WAS an RPG.
 

JUMBO PALACE

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I don't think this is a uniform issue. Look at AC2, which was much more complex than the first game. Purchasing weapons and medicine, upgrading the villa, better AI; the game was an improvement of the first without "dumbing it down" for the masses.
 

Spiner909

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NeutralDrow said:
Loaded language. Whether I enjoy "cinematic" games and "dumbing down" games are two different concepts. I have no problems with the former, so I'll just assume you're speaking like making games easy to understand and get into is somehow a bad thing and disagree with you.

I'm assuming that means a "yay" vote.

vento 231 said:
I don't enjoy it, but I play what ever comes along that is an fps, so it's not as common as in rpg's. Mass effect 2 was overrated. Good topic by the way and welcome to the Escapist!
He's been here longer than you have.
I double checked that, and wow, you're right! Maybe we shouldn't judge on post count alone, eh? I thought the 'downgrade' from ME1 TO ME2 was for the best. I honestly thought the original was fine, but the 2nd didn't have enough loot.
 

Snotnarok

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Dragon Age I like, Oblivion? I don't like.

They simplified that game to hell and back, they took out the different environments, simplified everything, made the story more mundane. Seriously I was laughing at the end at the army that was to go into the Oblivion gate, it was all of 5 knights. The game LOOKED nice but I'd take Morrowind any day of the week over it. WIth it's weird bugs and mushroom lands vs copy pasted trees as far as the eye can see.
 

DaedalusIcarus

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Zeithri said:
It all depends on how they dumb it down.
Like the examples you give, the combination of multitool and lockpick into one item is a lot better than running around with both when you think about it.

I am all for universal ammo clips as well (unless it's for rocket launchers or such) because it gives the feeling of futuristic (or in DE case: cyberpunkish). They had the same system for Shadowrun on the Sega Genesis.
Oh dear lord no :p

Of course I disagree on both fronts since I used the examples in my original post, no surprise there. But I never did elaborate on it so here goes.

What having both lock picks and multi-tools did for the game was to spawn situations where multiple solutions to a given problem existed, but depending on how many you stocked for either at the moment, some options would seem to expensive or completely out of reach.
Also, it meant that there were two different skills governing the effective use of these tools, so it was perfectly possible to be a master at picking locks and a douche when dealing with multi tools.
This would mean that such a player would be more likely to look for sewer grates or fences to pry open whereas multi-tools expertise would create an agent who was more proficient with electronics, and thus more likely to disable turrets and the like.

With a common system, every option is as viable as the other which removes some of the challenge and depth of the game as you're not as focused on finding solutions based on your supplies and skills.

The same goes for weapon ammunition. I've had a natural tendency to thin the numbers of any fortress with a sniper rifle before taking on the rest. If sniper rifle is hard to come by, that means I'm forced to employ other weapons and tactics to compensate.
If all weapons share the same ammunition the game can only challenge me by making all ammunition scarce or pulling one of those "We remove all/some of your weapons in preparation for this scene because we want to challenge you" often fixed with a cut-scene which is a cheap shot by any standards.


==== In response to the various other comments ====

Yes I'm biased as hell - but the subject itself isn't really one to be made objective. The question of the thread can basically be formulated as a "Do you prefer x to y?" query and opinions are just that, subjective.

That said, sure, I could've argued my point better - and I do agree that there's many nuances to the discussion which I only glanced over or ignored entirely.
It is, however, my understanding that a discussion is best sparked by being a bit provocative, biased and narrow-minded, it incites people to retort as you have :)
 

NoNameMcgee

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'Dumbed down' isn't a phrase I would use.

The majority of games used to be a lot more complex though. But you know what? I don't like most older games for precisely that reason.

I want to have fun. I like my games deep, story based and action-focused, but I also want them to be accessible and not to feel like work. 90% of games before the turn of the century were inaccessible, definitely felt like work, and were extremely difficult. That's how it seems when I play them now, at least (I was too young to be gaming back then). With some obvious exceptions, eg: Half-Life.

Personally I think gaming has evolved, and it's only getting better as time goes on.

As for Mass Effect 2, well personally I thought the gameplay in the first one was a pile of shit, and that's putting it nicely. But as far as I can see, everything has been improved in the sequel. I'm 6 hours into it and thoroughly addicted.
 

thom_cat_

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I liked hl2 because it wasn't dumbed down, the story was complex and intriguing. and it is one of the most looked over, most commented stories in the history of gaming, there are entire wiki pages explaining the plot line, and there are more just trying to interpret the future of the story.

Whereas nowadays the weapon models are massive, games are getting "consolitis", and the stories are told in cut scenes before you have even approached that section of the game, they just cut out the story into a cut scene and just give you the action.

I don't play Hl2 (only) for the action, it's the characters and the story that keeps it going.

And I don't think Tf2's weapon system and timing to do things could be any more complex, beginners struggle but once you figure it out, it is awesome.
 

Fat Hippo

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LordNue said:
It depends on what exact part of "Dumbing down" you mean. Like with your DA:O example. I fucking loved the reduction of class systems, why? Because most of the time that's what it boils down to. Rogue, warrior or mage but with fancy names. Mix classes usually fucking suck. Sure it was a bit generic but it worked fairly well (Which you might know if you didn't quit.)
Totally not true. Having many different kinds of classes adds a lot of replay value, and mix classes definitely don't suck. In the original BG2, a paladin was a fearsome sight to behold. And clerics and mages were totally different from one another, instead of just having healing shoehorned into the mages repertoire. It made the game more interesting.

That said, I still thoroughly enjoyed DA:O, I just wish Bioware would stop simplifying their games for the masses. Then again, looking at the numbers of their sales, it does seem to be working, but I'm still disappointed. I'll still be playing Mass Effect 2 though. *sigh*
 

The Madman

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If it genuinely makes the game more entertaining without compromising the games difficulty or intelligence, then yes.

Not really sure what else I can add to that. Seems pretty straight-forward...
 

Kenjitsuka

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The difficulty of the original Mega Man was a bit much for instance, but most recent games are indeed mostly yawn-fests. Worst if they throw in some tiny bits with insane difficulty for no appearant reason.
Example: get Platinum on every challenge in Prototype. I got gold on all, and then it wants more...
That's just a line being crossed between sheer mindless fun (99% of the game) and controller snapping frustration for no good reason.