Poll: do you support the afghan war
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19 of the 20 suicide bombers in 9/11 came from one country. Guess which one.open trap said:
If you guessed Afghanistan, you guessed wrong. Iraq? Wrong. The USA? Wrong.
If you guessed Saudi Arabia, you win a cookie.
You may be wondering at this point why the US doesn't try and isolate the problem at the source and stamp out Al-Qaeda activity and fundamentalist teachings in Saudi Arabia, either through military action, diplomacy, or educational initiatives. I think that would be something really interesting for you to research.
Also, the terrorist activities and the current state of the world economy are not related. The world is in a crappy economic situation for other reasons which are far too detailed to go into here with any accuracy but which have nothing really to do with anything terrorist-related.
Actually, 9/11 has quite a bit to do with the current state of the economy.WrongSprite said:
9/11 was was the spark that triggered the Afghan war. Do you happen to know how much its costs to wage a war? I don't know the exact numbers, but I'm gonna go with really f***ing expensive.
Not to mention that America cureently spends approximately 48% of its budget on the military, (11 aircraft carriers = ridiculous amount of cash).
So yea, the War which was caused by 9/11 has alot to do with our economy.
Dont get me wrong, I support the troops going there on life and limb for us.. but did you also know half the army going there isn't told -why-, but only "freedom and democracy"? The Western World is not the world police, as much as some may think. Bush forced the US into going into this.. conflict out of "suspicions" that nuclear weapons may hidden there (Which there NEVER were), and that they were in immediate danger (They never were), and using the fear from 9/11 - 11/9 to have the population blindly support his convoluted war effort rather than think clearly. As well, a wild goose chase after Osama Bin Laden. Some people even supported it only because "Bush is always right, he's from Texas" (FAIL, rednecks).
So they proceeded to take Saddam out of power, in which they helped him get into that position in the first place. The people he rules love him, "worship him" (obviously not right, but they are a very religious society). So obviously he decides he doesn't need the US anymore, and the US gets angst, so they want to "teach him a lesson". They invade under pretenses following 9/11 - 11/9, and eventually hang him. The country now hates them, and are forced by US soldiers to tear down statues and images of the man they came to love (despite being a cruel military dictator).
Now, Al-Queda and the Taliban are also an issue here, one being situated in Afghanistan, and the other an international terrorist group. Obviously, you want to strike at the terrorist center, and appease the people. Though you also trained some of them in your own tactics and weapons, so your basically fighting your own soldiers in different skin. IMO. And in relation with all these events, Osama is still never found, their invasion has led to mass chaos and destruction of this society and country - all for a war effort that was never just in the beginning.
And so on..
So they proceeded to take Saddam out of power, in which they helped him get into that position in the first place. The people he rules love him, "worship him" (obviously not right, but they are a very religious society). So obviously he decides he doesn't need the US anymore, and the US gets angst, so they want to "teach him a lesson". They invade under pretenses following 9/11 - 11/9, and eventually hang him. The country now hates them, and are forced by US soldiers to tear down statues and images of the man they came to love (despite being a cruel military dictator).
Now, Al-Queda and the Taliban are also an issue here, one being situated in Afghanistan, and the other an international terrorist group. Obviously, you want to strike at the terrorist center, and appease the people. Though you also trained some of them in your own tactics and weapons, so your basically fighting your own soldiers in different skin. IMO. And in relation with all these events, Osama is still never found, their invasion has led to mass chaos and destruction of this society and country - all for a war effort that was never just in the beginning.
And so on..
Would it interest you to know that America armed and trained the people who few those planes into the World Trade Centre?open trap said:
There's a man named Charlie Wilson, you should read up on him because the Afghan war and America goes back a lot further than you think. Also the US economy is in trouble because your banks began trading money that didn't exist and handing out loans that could never be repaid. There's more to it than you think.
Personally, I support, on the grounds that they're there and need to finish the damn job. Whether that will ever be possible remains to be seen, the Afghans fought a lot of people before the UN and they'll probably fight a shitload more afterwards, they've yet to be beaten by any of them. But it would be wrong to adandon them back to the Taleban/whatever other religious theocracy might arise after inflicting so much destruction on them to achieve it in the first place.
The war is for oil, not for justice or stomping "those that hurt us".
It's pretty nasty, but war in general is. No matter how you try to justify it.
It's pretty nasty, but war in general is. No matter how you try to justify it.
i have heard of charlie wilson, he was attempting to take revenge for vietnam by doing to Russians what they had done to us.but he never stayed and helped them stabilize their country. soon it became more unstable then during the war and it all lead up to 9/11.fix-the-spade said:
Ummm, than how come more than half of the UN's "peace keeping force" is populated/funded by Americans?ShadowsofHope said:
That was Iraq, not Afghanistan.
Again, that was Iraq, not Afghanistan. There are two different wars going on here buddy.
Ok, firstly, we didn't hang him, the Iraqi's did under there own powers, without any US intervention. (no matter what the conspiracy theorists would have you believe.)
Also, the people didn't love him. They only did what he said because Saddam had this bad habit of throwing poison gas at any village that didn't support him. If thats what you call love, then by all means, I apologize.
So, we shouldn't have done anything after 9/11? Funny, I thought having some of your countries landmarks destroyed, and thousands of innocent civilians killed is a perfectly just cause.... silly me...
First off, I am a Canadian.kahlzun said:
Ah, yes some one who is referring to the Afgan/Russian War. When no one was going to come to the aid of the Afgans, who were being wiped out. To the point where America had to import donkeys, because the entire countries supply was wiped out trying to move munitions and food. The only country to help them was the asshole Americans.(note the Sarcasm) Supplying them with 3/4 of a billion dollars in aid, then when their aid after the war was reduced to 1/4 billion(because they don't need to buy loads of guns,RPGS, and ammo), it was death to America; death to the infidel. Lets not forget all the hospitals and women that were allowed to be nurses and professionals during the time. But as everyone says it was Americas fault that, the native Taliban went around destroying all the hospitals and re-enslaving the women. The Afgans fucked up their own country why cant anyone get that through their head, by the end of the war they had modern hospitals, new schools, and close political ties to the most powerful country on the planet. So what do they do, tell America to go fuck themselves because their not getting all the free money they want. The red cross followed the Taliban around for months after the war pleading with the Taliban not to destroy the infrastructure built during the war. And once enough of the red cross people were killed they left too.
So here we are again, back to the same country again, back to hold their hands and see if we can get them to walk on their own. It is a dream.
Oh and a side note on the Iraq war. They are still occupying because their is still not enough stability in the country. Now their are Iraqi people who want the Americans out, so they use IED's and the like to try to kill them out. See where I am going with this, if the IED's stop the Americans will leave. Their Iraqi insurgents are literally vacuuming with muddy boots on.
Oh and on the comment that America treats every country badly.
Thank the lord that the Dutch,Spanish,French,English, didn't have TV and news reporters when they were hopping around the world.
Funny how we only have one or two books from the Aztec and Mayan empires. They were all burned and genocide was done to the people, hmmmm,hmmm, yes very interesting. And that's just one corner of the world.
Re-Cap:
In the 80's America the only country to help the Afgans.
Taliban destroyed new infrastructure and re-enslaved the women, not the Americans.
15 years later America comes back again with coalition forces, and music is in the streets once again.
5 years later roughly, back again in force though we never really left(Canadians have been their the whole time), to try to help these people who are clearly being terrorized and oppressed. As is said, third times a charm.
Question:
What country gives the most forgin aid? And the first guess doesn't count.
Who funds the vast majority of schools and hospitals in Africa?
I Think the response to 9/11 was the wrong one. As people have mentioned, why not a surgical strike to capture bin laden? This could have saved so many lives and the US have done this before (CIA assisted Bolivian soldiers were the ones who killed Che Guevara). Also the amount of heroin coming into the UK has risen massively since the start of the war, lovering prices and ruining lives, and most of this increase has resulted from a large increase of poppy fields in Afghanistan.
How dumb would hitting Israel be?Glefistus said:
Answer: Epicly dumb.
Israel is one of America's closest allies.
OT: I support activities against Al-quaida and other extremists, however, not a poorly executed occupation of a country that cannot function in any way until somehting big happens.
Alright, I'll take your response.Shynobee said:
Are not fear and love in religious societies the same? Huh.
And, no. I meant it was not just to invade and attack everything in sight within the Middle East, killing millions of middle eastern people in "justice" for thousands of Americans. Just because they are not you, doesn't mean they don't have families that will mourn their death, or hate you less for killing their sons and daughters, fathers and otherwise.
But to your point of two different wars.. Really, I just cant see much a "difference" between them, personally.
Anyways, before this comes to a flame fest.. Agree to disagree?
Excellent post.TheAngryMonkey said:
If we count the number of troops in Afganistan, we will find that the number is actually tiny. How are we expecting to control a country filled with competing warlords, guns, drug trade, terrorists, guerilla fighters and some more guns with just about the same number of soldiers as there are police officers in NYC?
The actual war was won, the Taleban goverment overthrown and the militia routed. It's not the new Vietnam. It's the new Kosovo. UN leaves=chaos.
PS. I have friends in Afghanistan, Finnish peacekeeppers. They say things were quite fine until summer -08.
Well, in the American system of dates days and months are reversed. Us Americans have a silly way of doing everything (metric/english, dd/mm/yyyy-mm/dd/yyyy) than the rest of the world.Amnestic said:
The international system is better, but it seems that the terrorists that hit the WTC knew about the American system and our emergency number and attacked on that date to maximize fear. I say this, not because I feel that the original attack being 9-1-1 to be too scary to be coincidence, but because the subway attack on London was exactly 911 days after the original attack on the WTC.
OT:
Anybody we could have killed who had ANY part in the WTC attacks are all dead at this point. The people we are fighting are freedom fighters who want our empire the fuck out of their country.
If a country invaded the US for legitimate purposes, then insisted on occupying us for an unknown amount of time after that purpose was served- I, for one, would fight. Thats all the insurgents are doing, except somehow they're "terrorists" because they're against the USA.
And what good came of those Wars. WWI was a clusterfuck that directly lead to WW2.axia777 said:
So we have WW2 in, which Millions died to defeat Hitler only for him to be replaced by an even worse tyrant, that of Stalin. He enslaved of half of Europe for the next 40 years with the added funtime bonus of Nuclear Holocaust hanging over the world.
Not to mention that both wars completely fucked over Europe. So yeah real good wars they were.
I have to pat you right back on the back.Spitfire175 said:
Excellent Post.
Hey everyone, some one who actually doesn't just read the headlines of the news paper, or listen to the shock and aw television media. Where if it does bleed it doesn't lead.
I agree with you one hundred percent, it is another Kosovo(or as like to say Koso'what?).
Every bleeding heart and hippy out their wants to do good and change the world, but no one wants to get their hands a little dirty. We go in trying to good, and the same people who want peace and change are the same that want their troops out the minute things start going south. And in turn, leaving the country at the mercy of these sick fuckers. How can you tell someone to stop what their doing, if they are just going to put a gun to your head and kill you. Are you understanding that the you cannot talk to the Taliban, its either their way or death. Its time for some of you to wake up.
A good soldier is not afraid of dieing, a good solider is afraid of failing. Anyone else is trying to get a free education, or didn't realize what they signed up for. Ever hear the saying live by sword, die by the sword. The fact is the media is mainly to blame, for taking every death of solider as though they were a civilian walking to the store. And in turn public opinion, always an ignorant one(and I can confess to that in myself) decides the course of events that should be left to professionals who handle these situations. When your pipes are leaking do you call a carpenter, or just ask a random on the street? So once again, the lives that are lost in the pursuit of liberation for a people, is cut short or not given enough, because of public opinion. The same people that 2 weeks later, would say that not enough is being done, and look at all the atrocities that are occurring.
And on the topic of the killing of innocent people. Which is no good no matter how you cut it. Because you all understand that most of these soldiers are family men/women, and are truly disturbed when people get killed in the crossfire.
Who is hiding in schools and locking people in their houses when coalition forces move in on a town? Who forces people to be human shields and not let them escape town? We both know its not the Americans. And why do they do that, cause they know that the media will side with them, and in turn help the enemies cause.
Let me set the stage: 3 insurgents come upon a group of soldiers and engage them in combat. One of the insurgents is killed.
Insurgent 1: "Quickly Insurgent 2 take all the guns and hide them before the media gets here."
Insurgent 2: "Good thinking"
Media arrives on the scene.
Insurgent 1: Tears in his Eyes, "The Americans, they killed my brother, we were unarmed and they just murdered him."
Insurgent 2: "Yes, yes I saw the whole thing they are murderers."
Media(Already a America hatting extream liberal): "Oh my, I believe every word you say stranger I am going to print this right away."
Soldier: "Hey wait a second those men were armed."
Insurgent 2: "No we weren't"
Media: "I'm sorry mr/mrs soldier I believe the insurgent, because if I just go to my paper with just more insurgents killed they wont print my story. I like theirs better."