Poll: do you support the afghan war
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Did you check how many Iraqis died because of the embargo? Did you check how many Iraqis died because Saddam was helped by the US in his coup d'etat? Did you check how many Iraqis died in the first gulf war and second gulf war? Did you check how many parents lost their Iraqis children? Did you check how many Iraqis lost their fathers and mothers?soren7550 said:
And Ben Laden may be a mad man, but at least check why he killed a thousand innocent people. Not saying I support what he did, but saying his 'cronies', which as far as I'm concerned are probably all dead, leaving behind a chain of hatred that doesn't end, would be saying their children, relatives, and countrymen should be killed to avenge people who died years ago.
Oh and drop the " ... goes on a limb to help other countries ... ", right now it's now about righteous justice, but about fixing the mess the US has created in Afghanistan. The taliban sure need to be put down for being morons, but it's only muslim and arab blood which is getting spilled for "freedom and democracry",.
From drone strike in pakistan on civvies and 'terror suspect', how much more must be killed to avenge your thousands and so much for the country that goes on a limb to help those in need.
Economic Loss due to collapse of towers: ~$105 Billionopen trap said:
Cost to keep troops in Afghanistan (so far): ~$230 Billion
Total US debt to China: ~$772 Billion (as of May '09)
Yeah, the trade centers are definitely what sent the economy spiraling down. And since at this point the cost of the war is well over double the cost of the collapse of the WTC, No, there really isn't a reason to still be there.
cainx10a said:
Wow, way to go on making a fellow american feel like total and utter shit. So your statement is true, so what? He was FUCKING NINE! He had no clue about what was going on over there and even if he did, I doubt he could see it on that large of a scale. It's becuase of people like you america is crumbling, it's becuase of people like you that people in Afghanistan, Iraq and other countries that are or were under terrorist control have to suffer. Yeah america has fucked up before, what county hasn't? And for christ sake could you drop the "we put Saddam in power" thing, no one could see the future then and they sure as hell can't now. So why don't you take a good long look at your-self and ask if you believe in your country, weather it be the US, England, New Zealand, Canada or any other country, becuase chances are; it won't be around forever. So why don't you stop bashing people who support the war and go help your country so it could last another ten years, becuase the US wasn't that way almost a decade ago and we are paying for it now quite dearly... Tool.
Why not? The war is self was justifie4d. What the Allies did after was the huge fuck up. They never should have left Germany and Austria alone to crash into economic destitution. If they had helped rebuild after the war then Hitler would have never had an excuse with the people to get into power and WWII would have never had happen, IMHO.whycantibelinus said:
The closest I get to supporting it is if my parent's tax dollars go to fund the damn thing... which I wouldn't be suprised by
I'm just waiting for the "Nuclear Launch Detected", it's going to happen from one side sooner or later
It feels sooooo good to type that with my current avatar =D
I'm just waiting for the "Nuclear Launch Detected", it's going to happen from one side sooner or later
It feels sooooo good to type that with my current avatar =D
You have no concrete proof of that. So you're destabilizing a developing nation based on unfounded suspicions; so you ask me if I support that? HELL NO!!open trap said:
Oh and FYI, the destruction of the World Trade Centre, although a great tragedy to be sure, had nothing to do with the current economic state. The current economic state can be blamed entirely on a few greedy corporate jerks from a few now defunct big name corporations who thought they could make themselves richer by buttfucking their respective companies.
I'm a little on the fence on this issue...
I support the ideal behind this war, but the way this war is being waged, it's impossible to win.
I support the ideal behind this war, but the way this war is being waged, it's impossible to win.
I will merely add these issues to the thread:
1. If you are trying to prevent a vacuum in which non-conventional forces like Al Qaeda can thrive, you will probably never win. There are numerous failed or failing states around the world, and you simply cannot control them all. Seriously, you could probably have more than 30, and no-one can control them all. We can barely fight in two of them at a time.
2. Trying to reduce opium exports is unlikely to succeed. Opium will feed their families, other crops will not because of low or irregular water levels combined with low yield/cash value. And you can always grow it other places too. LOTS of them...not a few like coca. Unless you want to impoverish masses of people, you need to give them something else they can rely upon financially. Also, Europe: We can't solve your opium problem this way, it grows in too many places. I'm sorry, but the Americans (my government) is trying this in South America, and it's frankly not working. You guys need something else.
3. Terrain-wise, Afghanistan will be extremely difficult to control. You will have to make allies with some very scumy, immoral people to control it. And when I mean scummy, I mean people who do the kind of things you see in horror movies and war flicks. I mean "killing someone and letting his family starve over a bad look" scummy. This will wear on your conscience.
4. It will be difficult to make the Afghans treat their women better at gunpoint. You can try to do this, but it will end up in people resisting. Feminists, pay attention: Just because you are Western and middle-class doesn't make you right, or mean that women in other countries would or should listen to you. Their needs are different than your own...help them meet them! Don't try and enforce your solutions onto their problems! Maybe they don't want access to abortion yet, or the end of the patriarchal family! Maybe they want enough food for their daughters or the ability to read!
PS: Am American, 26, white, and male. Flame on!
1. If you are trying to prevent a vacuum in which non-conventional forces like Al Qaeda can thrive, you will probably never win. There are numerous failed or failing states around the world, and you simply cannot control them all. Seriously, you could probably have more than 30, and no-one can control them all. We can barely fight in two of them at a time.
2. Trying to reduce opium exports is unlikely to succeed. Opium will feed their families, other crops will not because of low or irregular water levels combined with low yield/cash value. And you can always grow it other places too. LOTS of them...not a few like coca. Unless you want to impoverish masses of people, you need to give them something else they can rely upon financially. Also, Europe: We can't solve your opium problem this way, it grows in too many places. I'm sorry, but the Americans (my government) is trying this in South America, and it's frankly not working. You guys need something else.
3. Terrain-wise, Afghanistan will be extremely difficult to control. You will have to make allies with some very scumy, immoral people to control it. And when I mean scummy, I mean people who do the kind of things you see in horror movies and war flicks. I mean "killing someone and letting his family starve over a bad look" scummy. This will wear on your conscience.
4. It will be difficult to make the Afghans treat their women better at gunpoint. You can try to do this, but it will end up in people resisting. Feminists, pay attention: Just because you are Western and middle-class doesn't make you right, or mean that women in other countries would or should listen to you. Their needs are different than your own...help them meet them! Don't try and enforce your solutions onto their problems! Maybe they don't want access to abortion yet, or the end of the patriarchal family! Maybe they want enough food for their daughters or the ability to read!
PS: Am American, 26, white, and male. Flame on!
Afghanistan made alot of sense to me at the time we invaded. Now, I'm just skeptical on the overall strategy. More CAG and more resources devoted to developing technology to improve ground forces. New body armor for one, anti-IED measures would be another.
Now that we're there what do we do? Just pull out and let the Taliban take control of the country once again? I guess now we're committed, for better or worse. I don't know if it is a winnable war, or even one that is necessary, but I can understand why now that it has happened we can't just leave and let the country collapse in on itself once again.
Afghanistan's gonna be hard, and it depends mostly on the success of our hearts and minds campaign.
And while we're talking about wars, I supported this one for this reason.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25546334/
And while we're talking about wars, I supported this one for this reason.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25546334/
I think it's not so much that they're opposed to invading Afghanistan as they're opposed to another war because of the strain on the economy. You make a good point, Afghanistan probably deserves a war, but I think we should have gone after them in the first place. We only went into Iraq becauseopen trap said:
1. The way Iraq runs its country is oppressive and not democratic, so nationalist American foreign policy is to change it
2. George senior wanted to invade Iraq, and his political opinion is pretty much symmetrical with his son's. 9/11 Gave Dubya an opening to do something he probably wanted to do anyways.
3. Some conspiracy theorists would argue it's over oil, which isn't extremely farfetched.
Now that stupid grudge war has cost us a shitload of money for very little accomplishment. I don't think we can afford another war at this point.
"Won the War of 1812"? I don't know what kind of crap they feed you over there, but who lost a dozen men to kill a thousand of yours at New Orleans after the war was peaceably resolved by diplomats in Europe, with no victor and no loser?BrynThomas said: