Poll: Flood (Halo), Replicators (Stargate), or the Borg (Star Trek)?

[Eipok Kruden]

Offensive Bias was actually in charge of a fleet meant to kill the Gravemind (or at least hurt him and make all the other Flood stop their expansion and go protect him). And I don't think there's any explanation ever given as to why the Forerunners didn't rebuild out of the Shield Worlds after the Halo Array was fired (maybe they were all abandoned when the Forerunners made the Maginot Line and never were used to keep attention away from the Halos, maybe the shield worlds simply didn't work). Also the Flood on 05 seem to have broken out on their own thanks to Penitent Tangent's lax containment protocols.

Stargate's Great Alliance might have been able to do as the Forerunners did. The Ancients did build that Dakara Superweapon.

I love corrections, don't you?

First off, his name was Mendicant Bias, not Offensive Bias. Second, he was not in charge of a fleet meant to kill the Gravemind, his objective was to study the Flood in an attempt to find an exploitable weakness. In his study of the Flood, he became fascinated with them. He saw how resilient and how perfect they were in comparison to his own makers, the Forerunners (who were just Humans). He was also in charge of the shield worlds and the Gravemind saw and exploited this. The Gravemind convinced Mendicant Bias that the Flood truly was the ultimate race and that his makers, the Forerunners, were just trying to halt progress. He convinced Mendicant that they were just an obstacle in the way of true perfection. The Gravemind also promised Mendicant Bias all the knowledge he possessed, which was all the knowledge the Flood had accumulated since the first Gravemind, should he betray his makers. And so that is exactly what he did. Mendicant Bias betrayed the Forerunners for the Gravemind and shut the portals to the shield worlds. By the time he came to regret his decision to betray his former masters, it was too late.

 

[Signa]

Still, the only reason that the replicators were defeated at all was because the humans borrowed ancient technology. The same tech could probably be used on the flood to eradicate it.

The Flood was only temporarily stopped by the Forerunners committing a galaxy wide genocide/suicide, leaving them without food. The Flood survived without food for tens of thousands of years.

The Replicators were whipped out by briefly disrupting the connections between their cells. A single Flood cell can spawn a horde that would consume the universe.

My overly dramatic two cents.

Granted, cellular disruption wouldn't have any effect on the flood for that reason, but the tech used to kill the replicators wasn't only designed to do that. As it was said before, the device could have been used to wipe out any particular (or all) life in the galaxy. The flood WOULD be defeated just as easily.

I would also like to point out that, from my understanding, there were 3 types of replicators. Two were identical, but the ancient humanshape replicators were completely independent from the "toys" that evolved. I never finished Atlantis, but presumably, they were different.

The Flood are organic life, just like all other life in the universe. There's no way to only target the Flood. The Halos wiped out all life in the galaxy except for the Flood because their spores remained, but with just their spores, they were unable to build up sufficient biomass and eventually died off except for a few spores floating in the depths of space and the flood in stasis on the Halos.

You might be right, but I don't remember anyone in Stargate saying that the device only had a switch to go from kill organic<->machine. It still could be set to kill just fungi or something.

I don't know, the machine was only used twice, and neither time was it fully discussed what it could do. We only know that it has an immense number of possible configurations, and it can kill things. We also know that one of those configurations was able to destroy only one particular target form, so it make sense if it can be configured to attack another single target.

 

[hippo24]

Im a stargate nut, watched every episode etc etc..

I really did like the replicators, they were a race engineered by the forerunners to combat the Wraith, they attempted to create a life form that could replicate itself out of anything.
Its desighn is more ominous then the Flood, the flood can starve, they need living hosts to replicate, the replicators can stay dormant literaly forever, they can amass themselves out of anything, and they are impossible to truely kill, they adapt incerdibly quickly, and they have the ability to extract information from any captured foes.

They most certainly are the most devastating force on this list.

 

[Eldritch Warlord]

The Flood are organic life, just like all other life in the universe. There's no way to only target the Flood. The Halos wiped out all life in the galaxy except for the Flood because their spores remained, but with just their spores, they were unable to build up sufficient biomass and eventually died off except for a few spores floating in the depths of space and the flood in stasis on the Halos.

Halo only targets intelligent life (sufficient cognitive capability), probably by disrupting the brain somehow. Flood can survive this though, but their hosts become useless and there would be no new hosts for them to take. Pureforms and the Gravemind would be just fine as they have no brain (being made up of "Flood Super Cells" their whole bodies are sort of a muscle-brain built on a frame of calcium or corpses).

So it's not really a matter of the Flood starving and dying; they only need hosts for manpower, raw materials, and skills. They just had nothing to do and became dormant.

And I believe that Mendicant Bias went out and killed or captured the Gravemind at some point, but that's just a theory.

EDIT: I do get Mendicant and Offensive confused, Offensive just makes more sense as the "go out and fight the enemy with a massive fleet of the most powerful warships ever built" person.

 

[Bagaloo]

Pfft, PFFT I say!
The Borg are laaaaame. Conversion takes too long. They are slooooow.
I have to go with the flood. In halo 3, the flood could fully mutate and change a marine into a flood warrior within seconds.
The Borg are also to obsessed with the notion of creating a perfect being. Which by the way, they fail at miserably. Their idea of a perfect being is basically a humanoid which is slightly metallic in places? Crikey!

The flood don't care what they make, so long as its lethal!

And no, I'm not a Halo fanboy, if anything I'm a Stargate fanboy, but I really don't like the replicators as a 'species'. Though I will admit, flood vs replicators would be epic. And utterly lethal to the human populations of the universe

 

[Eipok Kruden]

You might be right, but I don't remember anyone in Stargate saying that the device only had a switch to go from kill organic<->machine. It still could be set to kill just fungi or something.

I don't know, the machine was only used twice, and neither time was it fully discussed what it could do. We only know that it has an immense number of possible configurations, and it can kill things. We also know that one of those configurations was able to destroy only one particular target form, so it make sense if it can be configured to attack another single target.

I can't imagine how the device could only target the Flood. It was probably just the writers closing the Replicator plot in an attempt to return to some sort of normalcy. They use the soft sci-fi ancient technology a lot to move the plot along when they can't think of any other way to do it. So it probably doesn't have much science behind it.

The Flood are organic life, just like all other life in the universe. There's no way to only target the Flood. The Halos wiped out all life in the galaxy except for the Flood because their spores remained, but with just their spores, they were unable to build up sufficient biomass and eventually died off except for a few spores floating in the depths of space and the flood in stasis on the Halos.

Halo only targets intelligent life (sufficient cognitive capability), probably by disrupting the brain somehow. Flood can survive this though, but their hosts become useless and there would be no new hosts for them to take. Pureforms and the Gravemind would be just fine as they have no brain (being made up of "Flood Super Cells" their whole bodies are sort of a muscle-brain built on a frame of calcium or corpses).

So it's not really a matter of the Flood starving and dying; they only need hosts for manpower, raw materials, and skills. They just had nothing to do and became dormant.

And I believe that Mendicant Bias went out and killed or captured the Gravemind at some point, but that's just a theory.

Well, by your reasoning, the existing pure forms would survive, but the flood would only be able to make so much more since they need biomass to create pure forms. I'm not sure how the Halos work exactly, most of this is speculation as we're kind of in the grey area. Bungie said the Halos destroyed all life of sufficient intelligence, but that's a pretty big plothole since that wouldn't target pure forms. So that's why I'm going with the "The Halos wipe out all life of sufficient size in the galaxy" theory because it fits better.

 

[Eipok Kruden]

Sorry for the double post.

 

[Elim Garak]

Flood>Borg hands down. I mean, if it's set in Star Trek's universe, it wouldn't even be a contest. One spore on one planet somewhere in the galaxy and the entire Star Trek galaxy is dead. Yea, it's got a lot of awesome stuff in it, it's got planet killers and all kinds of weapons, but it would fall. There's so much life in it, so many resources, so many planets, that the Flood would grow hundreds of times faster than in Halo's universe and they would have access to much faster, sleeker technology. They could use teleporters to teleport tens of carriers directly on board starships. Twenty or so carriers would easily take over an entire Starship unless it's a Borg Ship. The Flood would simply keep growing and growing and growing until they have enough force to fight the Borg. From then, an seemingly endless battle would ensue for thousands of years until the last Borg has been killed.

Remember Species 8472? The Borg would adapt - they would simply seed the infected areas of the galaxy with nanoprobe bombs, taking down entire solar systems. Also, think about it this way - the Borg can assimilate a Flood'ed being. The opposite is not true. Nanoprobes are inorganic machines that will simply convert the biology of the flood virus (or whatever it is) into something they can control.

Since the Borg cannot create new Borg, they must convert other life.

What are you talking about? "Q Who", TNG second season, first Borg episode. The Borg had children there. Besides, they have the knowledge of thousands of species - most of which are mature enough to have cloning. The Jem'hadar alone can produce a clone that is ready for battle within 3 days. If the Borg need to reproduce, they can easily do so. It is just simpler to assimilate - you get a body and the knowledge.

 

[Eldritch Warlord]

I love corrections, don't you?

My favorite thing in the universe.

First off, his name was Mendicant Bias, not Offensive Bias. Second, he was not in charge of a fleet meant to kill the Gravemind, his objective was to study the Flood in an attempt to find an exploitable weakness. In his study of the Flood, he became fascinated with them. He saw how resilient and how perfect they were in comparison to his own makers, the Forerunners (who were just Humans). He was also in charge of the shield worlds and the Gravemind saw and exploited this. The Gravemind convinced Mendicant Bias that the Flood truly was the ultimate race and that his makers, the Forerunners, were just trying to halt progress. He convinced Mendicant that they were just an obstacle in the way of true perfection. The Gravemind also promised Mendicant Bias all the knowledge he possessed, which was all the knowledge the Flood had accumulated since the first Gravemind, should he betray his makers. And so that is exactly what he did. Mendicant Bias betrayed the Forerunners for the Gravemind and shut the portals to the shield worlds. By the time he came to regret his decision to betray his former masters, it was too late.

Yeah, I always get Offensive and Mendicant mixed up.

No, Mendicant was sent to exploit a known Flood weakness.

Spoiler: excerpt from Terminal 3

We have the answer.

We've built Mendicant Bias. It's a contender-class [AI] unlike anything we've ever achieved. And we've observed a pattern it can exploit. The parasite has formed a Compound Mind. When it reaches a certain mass, the Mind is able to recoil its disparate parts to create a [tactical shield]. This is a simple matter of mass preservation. The thing has no compunction about sacrificing parts of the whole. But when the core of the Mind is threatened, it reacts violently and quickly.

This is the only time we see it retract or slow its growth. If we are to defeat it, the trick will be coordinating our forays against the [sprawling infection] while Mendicant Bias assaults the Mind's core. So far, we've been hesitant to use certain weapons because of the damage they cause surviving populations and environments. That protocol has been abandoned.

Mendicant Bias will draw the Mind into battle outside the line, dealing with local biomass and other parts as best he can. The scale of the problem is vast, but the strategy is sound. It will require patience, materiel and an investment of energy unlike anything we have ever considered. It's a dangerous plan that carries more risk than the Array, but I believe it can work. Even if we simply force it to retreat-to retract-that will at least give us some respite.

Some time to muster more resources...

Mendicant did study the Flood, but that was mostly because he was curious.

Looking through the entire terminal text I see nothing of Mendicant being at all connected to the Shield Worlds (he could have known of them and gave their locations to the Gravemind I guess, but he certainly had nothing to do with their operation).

And Forerunners were not humans, humans are their Reclaimers. The terminals include a report by the Librarian to have found a world she describes as Eden and sent the inhabitants through a portal to the Ark. She specifically describes burying the portal machine and a lone mountain that "watches over it." Perfect description of the portal machine's location as seen in Halo 3.

EDIT:

Well, by your reasoning, the existing pure forms would survive, but the flood would only be able to make so much more since they need biomass to create pure forms. I'm not sure how the Halos work exactly, most of this is speculation as we're kind of in the grey area. Bungie said the Halos destroyed all life of sufficient intelligence, but that's a pretty big plothole since that wouldn't target pure forms. So that's why I'm going with the "The Halos wipe out all life of sufficient size in the galaxy" theory because it fits better.

Size doesn't work, it doesn't explain how large prehistoric animals survived the event on Earth. Sentience fits better, and since that probably targets brains somehow "proper" Flood would be immune as they don't have a conventional brain.

 

[Elim Garak]

Replicators, the flood will have no easy means of wiping them out, the borg could be a good match for them but I think the replicators intelligence will beat them or they could just eat away at the borg cube

The replicators themselves are pretty much mindless - unless you bring in humanoid replicators. I think the Borg would just assimilate them, learn the protocol with which the individual pieces communicate, and integrate them into the cube. They are extremely similar to some Borg technology already.

And the humanoid replicators aren't that smart either - if they were, they wouldn't have been outsmarted by the humans left and right.

 

[Eipok Kruden]

I love corrections, don't you?

My favorite thing in the universe.

First off, his name was Mendicant Bias, not Offensive Bias. Second, he was not in charge of a fleet meant to kill the Gravemind, his objective was to study the Flood in an attempt to find an exploitable weakness. In his study of the Flood, he became fascinated with them. He saw how resilient and how perfect they were in comparison to his own makers, the Forerunners (who were just Humans). He was also in charge of the shield worlds and the Gravemind saw and exploited this. The Gravemind convinced Mendicant Bias that the Flood truly was the ultimate race and that his makers, the Forerunners, were just trying to halt progress. He convinced Mendicant that they were just an obstacle in the way of true perfection. The Gravemind also promised Mendicant Bias all the knowledge he possessed, which was all the knowledge the Flood had accumulated since the first Gravemind, should he betray his makers. And so that is exactly what he did. Mendicant Bias betrayed the Forerunners for the Gravemind and shut the portals to the shield worlds. By the time he came to regret his decision to betray his former masters, it was too late.

Yeah, I always get Offensive and Mendicant mixed up.

No, Mendicant was sent to exploit a known Flood weakness.

Spoiler: excerpt from Terminal 3

We have the answer.

We've built Mendicant Bias. It's a contender-class [AI] unlike anything we've ever achieved. And we've observed a pattern it can exploit. The parasite has formed a Compound Mind. When it reaches a certain mass, the Mind is able to recoil its disparate parts to create a [tactical shield]. This is a simple matter of mass preservation. The thing has no compunction about sacrificing parts of the whole. But when the core of the Mind is threatened, it reacts violently and quickly.

This is the only time we see it retract or slow its growth. If we are to defeat it, the trick will be coordinating our forays against the [sprawling infection] while Mendicant Bias assaults the Mind's core. So far, we've been hesitant to use certain weapons because of the damage they cause surviving populations and environments. That protocol has been abandoned.

Mendicant Bias will draw the Mind into battle outside the line, dealing with local biomass and other parts as best he can. The scale of the problem is vast, but the strategy is sound. It will require patience, materiel and an investment of energy unlike anything we have ever considered. It's a dangerous plan that carries more risk than the Array, but I believe it can work. Even if we simply force it to retreat-to retract-that will at least give us some respite.

Some time to muster more resources...

Mendicant did study the Flood, but that was mostly because he was curious.

Looking through the entire terminal text I see nothing of Mendicant being at all connected to the Shield Worlds (he could have known of them and gave their locations to the Gravemind I guess, but he certainly had nothing to do with their operation).

And Forerunners were not humans, humans are their Reclaimers. The terminals include a report by the Librarian to have found a world she describes as Eden and sent the inhabitants through a portal to the Ark. She specifically describes burying the portal machine and a lone mountain that "watches over it." Perfect description of the portal machine's location as seen in Halo 3.

Interesting... I just learned another thing. Thanks

 

[Eipok Kruden]

Flood>Borg hands down. I mean, if it's set in Star Trek's universe, it wouldn't even be a contest. One spore on one planet somewhere in the galaxy and the entire Star Trek galaxy is dead. Yea, it's got a lot of awesome stuff in it, it's got planet killers and all kinds of weapons, but it would fall. There's so much life in it, so many resources, so many planets, that the Flood would grow hundreds of times faster than in Halo's universe and they would have access to much faster, sleeker technology. They could use teleporters to teleport tens of carriers directly on board starships. Twenty or so carriers would easily take over an entire Starship unless it's a Borg Ship. The Flood would simply keep growing and growing and growing until they have enough force to fight the Borg. From then, an seemingly endless battle would ensue for thousands of years until the last Borg has been killed.

Remember Species 8472? The Borg would adapt - they would simply seed the infected areas of the galaxy with nanoprobe bombs, taking down entire solar systems. Also, think about it this way - the Borg can assimilate a Flood'ed being. The opposite is not true. Nanoprobes are inorganic machines that will simply convert the biology of the flood virus (or whatever it is) into something they can control.

Since the Borg cannot create new Borg, they must convert other life.

What are you talking about? "Q Who", TNG second season, first Borg episode. The Borg had children there. Besides, they have the knowledge of thousands of species - most of which are mature enough to have cloning. The Jem'hadar alone can produce a clone that is ready for battle within 3 days. If the Borg need to reproduce, they can easily do so. It is just simpler to assimilate - you get a body and the knowledge.

Yes, the borg can grow children and inject them with nanites at birth, but the children still need to mature before they can be implanted. They cannot just manufacture Borg like the Flood can manufacture Pure forms given enough biomass. Also, the Borg cannot reanimate dead corpses.

Replicators, the flood will have no easy means of wiping them out, the borg could be a good match for them but I think the replicators intelligence will beat them or they could just eat away at the borg cube

The replicators themselves are pretty much mindless - unless you bring in humanoid replicators. I think the Borg would just assimilate them, learn the protocol with which the individual pieces communicate, and integrate them into the cube. They are extremely similar to some Borg technology already.

And the humanoid replicators aren't that smart either - if they were, they wouldn't have been outsmarted by the humans left and right.

The human replicators aren't stupid that stupid, they're just slow learners. Once they do figure something out, they're very good at putting that knowledge to good use.

 

[vivadelkitty]

My vote goes to the Tribbles. They consume insane amounts of resources, and reproduce at alarming rates. Plus, they're cute, which throws all civilizations off guard as their food supply dwindles, forcing them into starvation.

 

[Elim Garak]

Remember the whole fungi thing? One spore on one moon somewhere and the Flood can make a colony large enough to completely cover every inch of the surface of said moon. That's one spore turned into billions in just weeks.

Yes, so? The Borg would become immune to the spores after a few assimilations. Then what is the Flood going to do? It can float around as dust around Borg cubes, ignored by everyone. It may even become a defense mechanism for the Borg - if any unassimilated being shows up, it gets Flood'ed. And then assimilated anyway.

 

[Eipok Kruden]

Remember the whole fungi thing? One spore on one moon somewhere and the Flood can make a colony large enough to completely cover every inch of the surface of said moon. That's one spore turned into billions in just weeks.

Yes, so? The Borg would become immune to the spores after a few assimilations. Then what is the Flood going to do? It can float around as dust around Borg cubes, ignored by everyone. It may even become a defense mechanism for the Borg - if any unassimilated being shows up, it gets Flood'ed. And then assimilated anyway.

I was simply saying that the Flood cannot be permanently destroyed. I wasn't saying that they are invincible, just that they are very resilient and that they can lay dormant for millions of years if necessary.

 

[Elim Garak]

Yes, the borg can grow children and inject them with nanites at birth, but the children still need to mature before they can be implanted.

Yes, and through various techniques that can take weeks - or at most days.

They cannot just manufacture Borg like the Flood can manufacture Pure forms given enough biomass.

Why can't they manufacture Borg?

Also, the Borg cannot reanimate dead corpses.

What? Says who? Voyager episode "Unity" - the Voyager crew accidentally reactivates a Borg cube that has been floating in space without atmosphere for several years.

The human replicators aren't stupid that stupid, they're just slow learners. Once they do figure something out, they're very good at putting that knowledge to good use.

Perhaps - but even the Replicator version of Carter wasn't that fast.

 

[Elim Garak]

Yes, so? The Borg would become immune to the spores after a few assimilations. Then what is the Flood going to do? It can float around as dust around Borg cubes, ignored by everyone. It may even become a defense mechanism for the Borg - if any unassimilated being shows up, it gets Flood'ed. And then assimilated anyway.

I was simply saying that the Flood cannot be permanently destroyed. I wasn't saying that they are invincible, just that they are very resilient and that they can lay dormant for millions of years if necessary.

Yup, no worries. But since they float forever without being active, they become obsolete. Live and evolve or become irrelevant.

 

[keyton777]

i picked the flood, even the halo rings did do their job and kill off all living things big enough to sustain the flood, they would just go into hibernation, and once they wake up, they can just jump from one planet to the next, and if they see ships and technology, they will take it and use it to infect more worlds, the replicators were killed off by a weapon, the flood have yet to actually be eradicated, and the borg are as bad as the flood, just as hard to kill, and just as risilient to massive loss of......life? i dont know what to call it...

Remember the whole fungi thing? One spore on one moon somewhere and the Flood can make a colony large enough to completely cover every inch of the surface of said moon. That's one spore turned into billions in just weeks.

Yes, so? The Borg would become immune to the spores after a few assimilations. Then what is the Flood going to do? It can float around as dust around Borg cubes, ignored by everyone. It may even become a defense mechanism for the Borg - if any unassimilated being shows up, it gets Flood'ed. And then assimilated anyway.

the flood can adapt too......they made form that were nearly immune to energy weapons and projectile weapons, and seriously i dont think a borg drone would last ten seconds against a tank form, which, after like, im guessing 2 battles, gravemind would just mass produce those, and proceed to infect other borg ships, gravemind also took control over one of the forerunner AIs watching halo ring delta, its not to big of a streatch to assume he can hack borg ships with a single tentacle.


the spores arint the only thing the flood can throw at the borg, the can make their own ships ram into borg ships, dropping off waves of infection forms, simple, they just mob the borg to death, there are more nonborg, than borg.

gravemind just makes the flood avoid the borg and just consumes whole sections of the galaxy untill he thinks he can take the borg, and he doesnt even have to be there to lead the flood, he can do it from a lawn chair on the other side of the galaxy.



also, i dont know a whole lot about the replicator, but if the borg managed to nab one, wouldnt he just kill himself and just turn into a bunch of little bits of useless metal, or better yet, become a computer virus and infect the borg hive mind



just because the borg are good at what they do, oesnt mean they are teh best at it

 

[Eipok Kruden]

Yes, the borg can grow children and inject them with nanites at birth, but the children still need to mature before they can be implanted.

Yes, and through various techniques that can take weeks - or at most days.

They cannot just manufacture Borg like the Flood can manufacture Pure forms given enough biomass.

Why can't they manufacture Borg?

Also, the Borg cannot reanimate dead corpses.

What? Says who? Voyager episode "Unity" - the Voyager crew accidentally reactivates a Borg cube that has been floating in space without atmosphere for several years.

The human replicators aren't stupid that stupid, they're just slow learners. Once they do figure something out, they're very good at putting that knowledge to good use.

Perhaps - but even the Replicator version of Carter wasn't that fast.

1.) A days isn't as fast as a few minutes. 2.) They can't manufacture Borg because they need to grow the children first, then implant them. That takes way more than a few minutes, which is how long it takes the Flood to create a Stalker form which can turn into a Ranged form or a Tank Form. It takes about the same time for a Flood Juggernaut to be formed. 3.) And it's already been established than the Borg can survive without life support. What they cannot do is reanimate corpses. You just provided an example of the crew aboard a Borg cube coming out of hibernation once the cube is restarted. Not of the Borg assimilating, implanting, and reanimating a dead corpse.

 

[Elim Garak]

Well, taking in consideration that Replicators can disassemble any kind of matter, wouldn't that imply that they can "devour" the Flood, thereby destroying in? So here is how I see it:

Replicators > Flood > Borg

Not exactly - the replicators are not subatomic machines - they cannot transmute matter. They can only disassemble it. IE they can't make iron from water, and use that to build more replicators. Thus the replicators would be effective only against technological civilizations - they and the flood would be at an impasse. Neither one would have what the other wants.

The Borg however straddle both camps. They are both technological and biological. Plus they have a much more evident and directed intellect. If they see a problem, they can and will solve it. They do research. They investigate. Thus they would win. Intellect >> dumb animals + 1-2 intelligent beings.

Now the question is can Borg assimilate Flood? And what would that be? Florg? Not that it would affect the balance of power anyway, since the Borg are limited in numbers.

LOL - Unimatrix Zero alone has trillions of Borg drones. The Borg own several % of the galaxy - hard to say how many, since the maps change. Between 2-10% would be my estimate.