Poll: Flood (Halo), Replicators (Stargate), or the Borg (Star Trek)?

[Inverse Skies]

I have to say replicators my man, I absolutely loved those things in Stargate before I kind of got over the series. The flood was cool, especially how they keep coming (and have a ridicuously cool name) but the replicators were so much better in the idea that they could make themselves out of any metal.

Sorry man, the Borg just don't rate in my book, not next to those creepy replicator spiders.

 

[Elim Garak]

1.) A days isn't as fast as a few minutes.

Oh, can the Flood grow a new being in a few minutes? The Borg can assimilate a being within a few minutes.

2.) They can't manufacture Borg because they need to grow the children first, then implant them. That takes way more than a few minutes, which is how long it takes the Flood to create a Stalker form which can turn into a Ranged form or a Tank Form. It takes about the same time for a Flood Juggernaut to be formed.

Umm... Yea, conservation of energy/matter? Where do they get the energy and matter to do that? What sort of matter do they use to produce these things?

[/quote]3.) And it's already been established than the Borg can survive without life support. What they cannot do is reanimate corpses. You just provided an example of the crew aboard a Borg cube coming out of hibernation once the cube is restarted. Not of the Borg assimilating, implanting, and reanimating a dead corpse.[/quote]

Ah, I see what you mean - but what's your point? BTW, those Borg were dead by all definitions of life.

Does the Flood have orbital weapons capabilities? Can they annihilate planets and solar systems? Can they traverse the galaxy in several hours? Can they travel through time? Can they do research and work towards a goal?

 

[Eipok Kruden]

Well, taking in consideration that Replicators can disassemble any kind of matter, wouldn't that imply that they can "devour" the Flood, thereby destroying in? So here is how I see it:

Replicators > Flood > Borg

Not exactly - the replicators are not subatomic machines - they cannot transmute matter. They can only disassemble it. IE they can't make iron from water, and use that to build more replicators. Thus the replicators would be effective only against technological civilizations - they and the flood would be at an impasse. Neither one would have what the other wants.

The Borg however straddle both camps. They are both technological and biological. Plus they have a much more evident and directed intellect. If they see a problem, they can and will solve it. They do research. They investigate. Thus they would win. Intellect >> dumb animals + 1-2 intelligent beings.

Now the question is can Borg assimilate Flood? And what would that be? Florg? Not that it would affect the balance of power anyway, since the Borg are limited in numbers.

LOL - Unimatrix Zero alone has trillions of Borg drones. The Borg own several % of the galaxy - hard to say how many, since the maps change. Between 2-10% would be my estimate.

The Flood aren't just dumb animals. Don't forget about the Gravemind. The Flood are loads smarter than the replicators and I'd say they're about as smart as the Borg. Both the Borg and the Flood follow the same hive structure. The Flood are one, every Flood is linked with every other Flood and they're all directed and coordinated by the Gravemind. Same structure as the Borg. So really, the Replicators are the only ones with the intellectual disadvantage here. So your argument is void. You are sort of right though, the Borg would try to find a way to assimilate the Flood. The Flood would also try and find a way to assimilate the Borg. It'd be an "assimilation race" of sorts. Whoever unlocks the other's secrets first wins.

 

[keyton777]

Well, taking in consideration that Replicators can disassemble any kind of matter, wouldn't that imply that they can "devour" the Flood, thereby destroying in? So here is how I see it:

Replicators > Flood > Borg

Not exactly - the replicators are not subatomic machines - they cannot transmute matter. They can only disassemble it. IE they can't make iron from water, and use that to build more replicators. Thus the replicators would be effective only against technological civilizations - they and the flood would be at an impasse. Neither one would have what the other wants.

The Borg however straddle both camps. They are both technological and biological. Plus they have a much more evident and directed intellect. If they see a problem, they can and will solve it. They do research. They investigate. Thus they would win. Intellect >> dumb animals + 1-2 intelligent beings.

Now the question is can Borg assimilate Flood? And what would that be? Florg? Not that it would affect the balance of power anyway, since the Borg are limited in numbers.

LOL - Unimatrix Zero alone has trillions of Borg drones. The Borg own several % of the galaxy - hard to say how many, since the maps change. Between 2-10% would be my estimate.

actually, he had a good point, can teh borg assimilate the flood?
i can see a drone injecting a single combat form (while getting the bejeesus beaten out of it)but, do the flood have anything that the borg can "infect" in their own little way?
(also, i think the flood are at least partially telepathically linked somehow, they fight like a beehive)


and the borg manufacturing borg thing doesnt make a whole lotta sense, arint the borg cyborgs? (isnt that where they got the name?) if you built a borg it would be a robot, and i think, easier to break.



i like the flood cause of just how fast hey can spread and kill things, their more dangerous than the zerg from starcraft

 

[keyton777]

my money would be on the flood simply breaking the borg ships and stuff with growth from the sores.


also, the gravemind is, from what i can see, nigh unkillable, he survived the explosion of delta halo, i dont see why he wouldnt live thru the explosion of the ARK

 

[Eipok Kruden]

1.)Oh, can the Flood grow a new being in a few minutes? The Borg can assimilate a being within a few minutes.

2.)Umm... Yea, conservation of energy/matter? Where do they get the energy and matter to do that? What sort of matter do they use to produce these things?

3.)Ah, I see what you mean - but what's your point? BTW, those Borg were dead by all definitions of life.

Does the Flood have orbital weapons capabilities? Can they annihilate planets and solar systems? Can they traverse the galaxy in several hours? Can they travel through time? Can they do research and work towards a goal?

1.)Yes, the Flood CAN grow a new being in a few minutes. They don't need to infect a host, infecting hosts just makes it easier since they're already there on the battlefield and hosts and corpses only take 5-10 seconds to mutate and turn into a combat form. That's right, if one infection form gets on the face of a live host or a dead corpse, it only takes 5-10 seconds to turn that host or corpse into a fully functioning and lethal combat form that can utilize whatever weapon the host/corpse was using before the mutation. A video of it happening: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6ekCtDld5w Exactly 11 seconds is the time it takes the infection form to mutate this marine's body and turn him into a human combat form. Let's see the Borg completely assimilate and implant a victim in 11 seconds or less.

2.)And the Flood uses biomass. ANY biomass. Pure forms are composed of crushed bones, muscle, and flesh that's been mutated and repurposed by Flood Spores. All they need is some dead corpses and Voila, a Stalker Form. Juggernauts just take more biomass to create, but they take the same amount of time. EDIT: I forgot to add that every Pure Form needs at least one Infection Form to act as the brain. Infection Forms are grown in massive 5 and a half foot in diameter gestation pods that can contain 10 or so Infection Forms. Once the Infection Forms are mature enough, the gestation pod bursts releasing the Infection Forms. Gestation Pods are formed when a spore finds a suitable place to grow and, well, grows. Each Gestation Pod also releases hundreds of Spores when it bursts, allowing for a single Spore to create a massive colony of thousands of pods in about a day.

3.)My point is there has never been any evidence of the Borg assimilating, implanting, and reanimating a dead corpse. Only bringing back dead Borgs. The already existing genetic changes and implants could be essential for bringing a Borg back to life.

4.)If they take control of other races' ships, yes and yes. If they gain control of a Borg ship, yes. And read the post I just posted about the Flood's structure and the Borg's structure.

 

[Eipok Kruden]

my money would be on the flood simply breaking the borg ships and stuff with growth from the sores.


also, the gravemind is, from what i can see, nigh unkillable, he survived the explosion of delta halo, i dont see why he wouldnt live thru the explosion of the ARK

Well, it's not that the Gravemind is invincible, because he isn't. He was killed in Halo 3 when you blew up the new Installation 04. No, he isn't invincible. But all he is is a bunch of Flood that have fused together and formed a single, sentient being. That's it. As soon as the Flood has enough biomass to create a Gravemind, it does. If the Borg and the Flood are in the Star Trek universe, than the Flood would have access to enough biomass to create another Gravemind whenever the current one is destroyed. And, since knowledge is passed down from Gravemind to Gravemind, the new Gravemind would already know all the tactics, strategies, and schemes the former Gravemind was planning. He would just pick up where the former one left off. The Borg Queen isn't as easily replaceable. That's a weakness the Flood could exploit. Like I've been saying, the Flood is resilient. All it is really is just a highly advanced kind of parasitic fungi. Read the taxonomic analysis I included in my first post.

 

[keyton777]

my money would be on the flood simply breaking the borg ships and stuff with growth from the sores.


also, the gravemind is, from what i can see, nigh unkillable, he survived the explosion of delta halo, i dont see why he wouldnt live thru the explosion of the ARK

Well, it's not that the Gravemind is invincible, because he isn't. He was killed in Halo 3 when you blew up the new Installation 04. No, he isn't invincible. But all he is is a bunch of Flood that have fused together and formed a single, sentient being. That's it. As soon as the Flood has enough biomass to create a Gravemind, it does. If the Borg and the Flood are in the Star Trek universe, than the Flood would have access to enough biomass to create another Gravemind whenever the current one is destroyed. And, since knowledge is passed down from Gravemind to Gravemind, the new Gravemind would already know all the tactics, strategies, and schemes the former Gravemind was planning. He would just pick up where the former one left off. The Borg Queen isn't as easily replaceable. That's a weakness the Flood could exploit.

on yeah, i forgot about the new gravemind thing, still, he is hard to kill, certainly harder than the borg queen

 

[wolf_isthebest]

Replicators are clone of the bugs of the 1998 Lost in space movie - replicator where fist mentioned on July 9 1999 episode... Flood wants to "assimilate" all biomass. Borg get my vote because they where original,interesting and innovative for there time.

 

[keyton777]

seriously, anyone want to answer me what the hell makes the flood tick?
how would the borg assimilate something like the flood, their spores are leathal, and im guessing their cells can fight back very well too

 

[Eipok Kruden]

seriously, anyone want to answer me what the hell makes the flood tick?
how would the borg assimilate something like the flood, their spores are leathal, and im guessing their cells can fight back very well too

Just read the taxonomic analysis I included the link to in my first post. It explains exactly what the Flood are.

 

[Eldritch Warlord]

Yes, so? The Borg would become immune to the spores after a few assimilations. Then what is the Flood going to do? It can float around as dust around Borg cubes, ignored by everyone. It may even become a defense mechanism for the Borg - if any unassimilated being shows up, it gets Flood'ed. And then assimilated anyway.

How would they do that? It's not like infection by the Flood is a disease that can be cured, it's a precise and active attack on the nervous system.

And isn't the basis of Borg assimilation linking the brain to the whole? How would that work on the Flood who don't have such an organ (as I've explained before Flood Super Cells which form the basis of their more complex forms comprise individually all their needed bodily systems including neurological). The closest they have to a brain is their infection form, and if the Borg figure out how to assimilate that the Gravemind would quickly figure out how to prevent that (consciously killing the infection form). The body, if ever recovered, can be easily reanimated by another infection form.

 

[Iron Mal]

Of the three of them I would have to put my bets with the Flood being the best (they're essentially mutant zombies in space! That's pretty cool in all honesty).

If I were to pick a sci-fi race outside of those three then I would go with the Xenomorphs from Alien. They are selfless and will sacrifice themselves for the good of the Hive and the Queen, each one has evolved into what is essentially the perfect killing machine and they kill stuff just by being born (that is quite an achievement).

 

[Daveman]

The Flood are hardly the average biological mutant. They're a fungi. As long as one spore survives, the Flood survives. One spore can give birth to an entire Flood colony. They are impossible to permanently eradicate.

Fungus is the singular of funghi and furthermore I don't think you can really classify a fictional alien lifeform using normal biological classification, especially considering that the general definition of "species" doesn't apply to the flood and they should really be considered more of a symbiotic collection of species'.
I also disagree that they are impossible to eradicate. Any organism has fundamental weaknesses that are exploitable in order to destroy them. Though admitedly I don't know enough about the (mostly boring) Halo universe to know what these might be.

 

[Eipok Kruden]

The Flood are hardly the average biological mutant. They're a fungi. As long as one spore survives, the Flood survives. One spore can give birth to an entire Flood colony. They are impossible to permanently eradicate.

Fungus is the singular of funghi and furthermore I don't think you can really classify a fictional alien lifeform using normal biological classification, especially considering that the general definition of "species" doesn't apply to the flood and they should really be considered more of a symbiotic collection of species'.
I also disagree that they are impossible to eradicate. Any organism has fundamental weaknesses that are exploitable in order to destroy them. Though admitedly I don't know enough about the (mostly boring) Halo universe to know what these might be.

The Flood behave like a fungus. They have spores and their basic structure resembles that of a fungus. The Flood is not a symbiotic collection of species, it's a single species. I don't even know how you could come to the conclusion that it's a collection of species. It's a parasitic species that uses host bodies or pre-existing biomass to grow. It cannot create much biomass on its own.

And how can you think the Halo universe is boring? I think it's pretty damned interesting.

 

[Elim Garak]

How would they do that? It's not like infection by the Flood is a disease that can be cured, it's a precise and active attack on the nervous system.

Simple - the Borg will configure the nanoprobes to attack and destroy the spores and infected cells. The nanoprobes are far more precise than spores could be - they can be programmed to modify and update specific body parts, cell types, etc.

And isn't the basis of Borg assimilation linking the brain to the whole? How would that work on the Flood who don't have such an organ (as I've explained before Flood Super Cells which form the basis of their more complex forms comprise individually all their needed bodily systems including neurological).

Individual flood units still need to have a central nervous system. That is what the Borg attack and assimilate.

The closest they have to a brain is their infection form, and if the Borg figure out how to assimilate that the Gravemind would quickly figure out how to prevent that (consciously killing the infection form). The body, if ever recovered, can be easily reanimated by another infection form.

Same deal with the Borg. They can reanimate a corpse that has been lying around for up to a day or two, I think (don't remember the exact number). Did that to Neelix in Voyager, unfortunately - should have left him dead.

 

[Ace of Spades]

I like the Borg most. I've never heard of the Replicators, and I hate the Flood with a passion.

 

[Elim Garak]

1.)Yes, the Flood CAN grow a new being in a few minutes. They don't need to infect a host, infecting hosts just makes it easier since they're already there on the battlefield and hosts and corpses only take 5-10 seconds to mutate and turn into a combat form. That's right, if one infection form gets on the face of a live host or a dead corpse, it only takes 5-10 seconds to turn that host or corpse into a fully functioning and lethal combat form that can utilize whatever weapon the host/corpse was using before the mutation. A video of it happening: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6ekCtDld5w Exactly 11 seconds is the time it takes the infection form to mutate this marine's body and turn him into a human combat form.

Jeez, what a dumb design. Didn't realize it was more fantasy than sci-fi.

Let's see the Borg completely assimilate and implant a victim in 11 seconds or less.

They can gain physical control of a subject that quickly. Making the drone sufficiently durable and battle-ready takes longer.

2.)And the Flood uses biomass. ANY biomass. Pure forms are composed of crushed bones, muscle, and flesh that's been mutated and repurposed by Flood Spores. All they need is some dead corpses and Voila, a Stalker Form. Juggernauts just take more biomass to create, but they take the same amount of time. EDIT: I forgot to add that every Pure Form needs at least one Infection Form to act as the brain. Infection Forms are grown in massive 5 and a half foot in diameter gestation pods that can contain 10 or so Infection Forms. Once the Infection Forms are mature enough, the gestation pod bursts releasing the Infection Forms. Gestation Pods are formed when a spore finds a suitable place to grow and, well, grows. Each Gestation Pod also releases hundreds of Spores when it bursts, allowing for a single Spore to create a massive colony of thousands of pods in about a day.

3.)My point is there has never been any evidence of the Borg assimilating, implanting, and reanimating a dead corpse. Only bringing back dead Borgs. The already existing genetic changes and implants could be essential for bringing a Borg back to life.

Yes there was. Neelix was reactivated a few hours after he died - and 7 stated explicitly that it can be done after over a day. Voyager episode "Mortal Coil".

[/quote]4.)If they take control of other races' ships, yes and yes. If they gain control of a Borg ship, yes. And read the post I just posted about the Flood's structure and the Borg's structure.[/quote]

Yup, and then what? Then they are out of ships.

1. Borg ships have tractor beams - they can easily capture a ship trying to ram them.
2. Borg ships have excellent shields that will protect them from all sorts of weapons.
3. Borg ships are very resilient and can regenerate. A Borg cube can function without any problems with over 80% of it destroyed, due to the distributed nature of the system.

 

[Elim Garak]

Dude, seriously, don't mean to be a grammar nazi, but. Grammar?

actually, he had a good point, can teh borg assimilate the flood? i can see a drone injecting a single combat form (while getting the bejeesus beaten out of it)but, do the flood have anything that the borg can "infect" in their own little way? (also, i think the flood are at least partially telepathically linked somehow, they fight like a beehive)

Of course the Borg can assimilate a Flood'ed being. The Flood still have a central nervous system, muscles, biological structures. Those structures can be absorbed. Flood spores can be killed, destroying the telepathic abilities and control nodes.

and the borg manufacturing borg thing doesnt make a whole lotta sense, arint the borg cyborgs? (isnt that where they got the name?) if you built a borg it would be a robot, and i think, easier to break.

No, they would clone biological beings, and then implant them with the cybernetic devices.

 

[Elim Garak]

The Flood aren't just dumb animals. Don't forget about the Gravemind.

But they never do anything really intelligent. They don't use tools when the tools would be beneficial. They don't use armor. They don't build things. It sounds like the Gravemind doesn't have fine control over individual Flood beings - it can send them this way or that, but it cannot tell them to close a door or pick up a shovel and dig. If they just built a bunch of ships, they would have owned the galaxy 10 times over.