Poll: Guns, are they good or bad?

[Pegghead]

Guns are awesome and therefore perfectly fine. Nah but seriously I think it boils down to the owner to be responsible.

 

[Boredom is my vice]

If we ban guns only criminals will have them? Well.. duh.. that's kind of the point of the law, isn't it? The real question is, if we ban guns how many criminals will have them? Consider, if guns are banned, it gets harder to get illegal guns -- you can't steal them from citizen's homes. You can't steal them from the local walmart. You can't smuggle them in using accounting tricks such as making three shipments look like one shipment. And getting caught carrying one around, whether it's to use or to sell to someone who wants one, becomes a risky operation. Even smugglers don't take on extra risks for free. As such, the price of guns goes up.. yes Virginia, the black market listens to supply and demand. Reduce the supply and the price gets higher -- even for criminals (who, incidentally, are usually poor.. that's why they're criminals in the first place, after all).

If we ban guns people will have no way to defend themselves. Even with guns people generally don't have a way to defend themselves. Why? Because the criminal picks the time and place of the activity, ensuring that the victim is in a state of disadvantage. In extremes this gives you Miami, where people get murdered in their beds because criminals, aware that the owners may have guns, shoot the owners prior to looking for anything to steal. As for the 90yr old grandmother anecdote, if we're honest, what are the odds that grandma even has a gun, and has it readily available? Now what are they compared to the odds that a criminal looking to do something he knows is risky and illegal and may involve a weapon, has his gun readily available? Who wins? Grandma with her gun in her purse, or twitchy 20yr old with gun pointed at grandma's head?

Sure, there may be fewer attempts at crime, but those crimes that do occur (and to think they won't because everybody is armed is as naive as thinking gun control will eliminate guns) will, by the very nature of the system, be more likely to end in death -- usually of the victim for reasons pointed out above.

Would you rather be robbed twice, or killed once?

And then there's the added benefit where getting involved in a highly stressful situation, such as winding up arguing with a drunk, or catching their spouse cheating on them, doesn't end up in somebody dead from someone using their gun before their brain.

So you think that if we did make guns illegal that the demand for in; lets call it the criminal undergroud, would sky rocket so high that they would disappear all together? If that were the case I would be all for it, but every day contraban items make it through ports all over the U.S. Lets go with the senario that we make guns illeagal, how do we round them all up. Lets say the average citizen is a good person and takes his weapons to a his local police station to turn it in. The banger down the street who is sleeping with a chopper under his matress isnt going to do that, and now he has pretty much everyone out guned. Also the assumtion that criminals are "are usually poor" is'nt a great one. As for "Would you rather be robbed twice, or killed once?" sry it may not make sense to you, but i would rather go out fighting than live my life in fear.

 

[Semitendon]

isnt that like asking "cars, are they good or bad" ?

Nope, it isn't, hillbilly.

Guns are good as long as you are willing to use them against your own government if they cock things up to much.

Let's say your government send your children, fathers and sisters to a foreign country for a war based on lies.

Hey, wait a second! A war based on lies? I didn't notice you had a revolution lately...

Make sure the government steps down

In more civilized countries we call that "voting".
In a country with a fucked up political system that only knows to parties which are basically the same lobbyist extensions, anarchy is always the third option.

Annnnd, in a civilized argument, the constant ( this is, at least your second post) name calling, proves a lack of understanding, manners, or good logic. Way to go.

p.s. if you want to quote my posts, so that you can call me names too, you can find it easily enough.

 

[Mordwyl]

Fact: Countries such as Malta and Japan have a ban on firearms and most lethal weaponry, whereas the USA does not.
Fact: Crime, especially murders, are almost nonexistant in Malta whereas in Japan they tend to be very rare occasions.

When you're raised in a society that believes any kind of problem can be solved with pulling a trigger you're asking for it.

Excuse me Malta is an island of only 400,000 people where as the US is a famous melting pot where over 300,000,000 people of varying ethnicities, religions and social standing must co-exist unlike Japan where the guy next door will almost certainly speak the same language and have a similar upbringing so conflict is rare. Also Japan has the highest suicide rate of any industrialized nation and the lowest birthrate so the fact that people are killing themselves off faster than people are being born to replace them is not a good thing. You should use as an example [http://www.gun-control-network.org/GF01.htm] of a nation with a huge and diverse population living in peace without guns like Great Britain [http://www.gun-control-network.org/GF05.htm] that last year only had 42 murders involving handguns or shotguns versus 11 using other weapons. Although the fact that they still occur regardless of them being effectively banned since 1997 shoots a tiny little hole in your opinion.

You did not cite extreme examples you cited poor examples. The US is unique in that a compact exist between the Government and the governed. Americans have the right to bear arms so in the event that the state should revoke their rights they have a legal means to resist, violently if need be. Imagine if minorities like the Jews or Roma of Europe had that right in Italy and Germany or if the populace voiced opposition to having three prime ministers assassinated in Japan before World War 2.

You may not like firearms but you have the right to have them or not to have them as you wish in the US and I would rather live with threat of violence from a fellow citizen than knowing the state can choose what other right to take with impunity.

Spoiler: Or in another way

[HEADING=3]I am Chaotic Good.[/HEADING]

Frankly if I go with your opinion you'd rather live in danger than actually feel and be safe when you walk out of your house for prolonged periods of time. Do you really think the governments from those countries banned possession of lethal armaments on a whim? Using your own argument, if it DID give people the right they would be furious and cause an uproar to revert the law back the way it were.

I'm sorry, it is clear we won't agree as we're raised on different notions on the topic for valid yet opposing reasons. Try living in a place where you can comfortably go anywhere in your country unarmed and feel protected all the same. It's one thing you'd really take for granted.

Laws are not a fence restricting the citizen, they're a shield to protect them. I'm sure once Americans start feeling safe they won't mind a ban on guns at all.

 

[Drakeneo]

If you ask me guns shouldn't be outlawed but the ammunition prices should skyrocket.

 

[Bofore13]

Many of those so called "facts" were way off that may be due to the INTENSELY one sided opinion on the website however I personally feel that there has to be background checks then a mandatory class on how not to be a dumbass such as leave the gun out with a round still in the chamber, and how to remove the firing pin it really isn't a hard thing to do on any gun.

 

[Chris^^]

outlawing pistols and assault rifles, sure there only meant to kill people but hunting rifles are fine with me

wait what?
you're saying that only certain guns are dangerous?
for one thing a hunting rifle is more lethal than a pistol in many situations, as a general rule they will have greater range and more stopping power

illogical

in my opinion people should be allowed guns, used responsibly they're harmless
a gun is just a tool, the danger is in the owner
and anyways, if someone is dead set on killing someone they don't need a gun, they can use any number of tools, guns are a more merciful way of killing than any number of blunt weapons available

 

[Socius]

They should be restricted to people who have a perfect record, can pay well, and are known to be trustworthy. Otherwise they should only be in the hands of Police and Military.

alas the kind of people you just described can be a honest person or a psychophat! they are known to be clever, charismatic and such when in a good mood!

 

[Wolcik]

I like "I don't live in America" option.
In my country the second most important law isn't about possesing a gun whoever you are - there are smaller laws for that and thanks to that you can be knifed on the street, but not gunned. Which makes streets a safer place XD

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Guns are just tools or nice decorations if your into that and that is all they are but they shouldnt be tools used by the general populace so there should be better limitations on them.

 

[driker]

Self defense? Hello?

Thats what the police are there for. Hello? -.-;;;

The police rarely prevent crime. They track down and arrest criminals after a crime has been committed. If someone trys to rob, rape, or murder you they are not likely to do it while a cop is standing next to you, so the police offer no protection whatsoever. Sure they may send the guy to jail later, but you're still dead / raped / whatever. If you are armed, at least you can fight back.

Why is it crap? Its the truth. They'll either have the guns, or they'll just drive murders by stabbing through the roof.

Did you even read why I said most criminals will then not have guns? At all? Did you even try to read? And stabbing through the roof? Seriously man, stop and think about what you are writing and see if it makes any sense first.

No convicted felon can legally own a firearm of any kind anywhere in America, yet they still get them. The fact is that if demand for an item exists, that item will be available for purchase. If the item is illegal, there will be a black market. The only way to prevent something from being sold is to remove all demand for it or completely control the supply (for instance, there is no black market for nuclear weapons because every nuclear weapon on the planet is kept under close guard by somebody's army... so there's no illegal supply). But guns are manufactured all over the world in huge quantities and are widely available, so controlling the supply is impossible. If nothing else, people will smuggle them into the country from places like Africa and South America where you can pretty much buy anything from a .22 pistol to a military machine gun on the street if you have the cash. All outlawing guns will do is make them more expensive for criminals, but since many criminals are wealthy (crime does pay, at least until you get caught) that is no real problem for them.

Sure some countries have low crime rates, but that's generally due to cultural differences. If Japanese criminals really wanted guns, they'd have them... Japan has illegal drugs and if people can smuggle in drugs they can certainly smuggle in guns (more easily than drugs, since dogs can't detect the smell of a gun like they can drugs).

 

[Lord George]

I like the fact that I don't have to worry that any idiot could get hold of a gun and start shooting people. There's no real reason for anyone to own a gun unless there a farmer/hunter. For self defence purposes its pointless. A criminal is going to shoot you if you have a gun and chances are he's a better shot because he will have been preparing for it, but if you have no weapons then their not going to kill you. I'd rather loose my wallet then my life due to a false sense of power and security from holding a gun.

 

[Borrowed Time]

*snip*

Exactly. Outlawing drugs has done little to minimize the amount of drugs coming into the US or the ease of obtaining them for that matter. And hell, if they don't import them they just grow or make the drugs here. Using Avykins own argument of "there's no practical use for them so they should be outlawed", drugs have in fact been outlawed, and their use is still rampant. The people who want to get them get them.

The police are not some magical force of super heros that instantly teleport or fly at the speed of light to the scene of every crime. They don't prevent crime so much as they catch and help punish those who have committed crimes. As I've said in a previous post, I work in security and have had many dealings with law enforcement.

Pepper spray is a very short range, non-lethal weapon and I'm sorry, but if someone is 20ft away from you in your home (which is a perfectly viable scenario as most bedrooms are at least that far away from a front or back door), pepper spray will be like shaking a spoon at them. A taser is a one time use (if ranged) or an extremely close range weapon, both of which are useless if you either miss or there are more then one individual. I've also seen individuals who are uncommonly resilient shrug off tasers and pepper spray. Not to mention if the intruder(s) is/are doped up on PCP, both of those non-lethal weapons will be like smacking them with a fly swatter.

I'll keep my (used for hunting as well as self-defense) guns thank you.

I like the fact that I don't have to worry that any idiot could get hold of a gun and start shooting people. There's no real reason for anyone to own a gun unless there a farmer/hunter. For self defence purposes its pointless. A criminal is going to shoot you if you have a gun and chances are he's a better shot because he will have been preparing for it, but if you have no weapons then their not going to kill you. I'd rather loose my wallet then my life due to a false sense of power and security from holding a gun.

Have you seen any of the videos of criminals robbing a convenience store then shooting or at least shooting at the unarmed clerk as they leave to prevent a witness? I have. Those who are committing a robbery are not necessarily going to just leave you be if you're unarmed. If they were going to take the moral high ground, they wouldn't be robbing the place to begin with. I saw a video recently of 4 armed criminals (one with an assault rifle) pull up to an older gentleman's home as he opened the garage door and jump out the car to rob him. He had a handgun nearby and began firing at them as they came in through the garage door, it was beyond hilarious to see them run for their lives as he peppered them with bullets. Two ran off, and I saw at least one of them get into their car and drive away as fast as they could with multiple bullet holes in his windshield.

 

[LockHeart]

I wish that we were legally allowed to own handguns here in Britain, the whole ban was brought in over a knee-jerk reaction to some psychopath shooting up a school which, while it was undoubtedly tragic, penalised responsible non-insane firearms owners.

My thoughts on this can be pretty much summed up in this video:

Spoiler: Gun Control

 

[Valiance]

Gamers are more conservative than they want to admit.

 

[James Sokolove]

Guns have no motive. Guns have no inherent ability to kill. They are inanimate, they are mechanical machines, they are incapable of doing anything.

Screwdrivers can do nothing. Socks can do nothing. They are tools that we have created to be used as we see fit. Socks can be used on our feet as a protective layer, they can be used as filters, as fire starters, as sacks, as garroting wire.

I'm going to cut to the reason that most of the fools in here will understand. If you ban guns, a human will just find another tool to use. In England, the criminals generally use knives. If you somehow ban knives, they'll just use clubs. Ban those, and they'll use rope or chain. Ban those, and your country is now such a miserable police-state hell-hole that there will be no reason to even bother.

By banning guns you're trying to ban violence. A government trying to stop every one of its inhabitants from committing violent acts is absolutely preposterous and ends up violating everyone's rights to privacy and property. Violence is here to stay because we are a violent species. Get over it, it's life. If you can't accept this, go out into the real world where people are killed constantly for the pettiest of reasons. Killed for money, killed for revenge, killed for racial hatred, killed for ethnic differences.

Guns are just the pinnacle of ease when it comes to killing. For 2 days work I can get a shotgun and kill several people. Or I could get my kitchen knife. Maybe some piano wire. A baseball bat perhaps. An easily grasped stone.

And it's not just that arguments for banning guns are easily ruined, arguments against banning guns are plentiful and irrefutable. One of my ex-girlfriends was raped and as a result she's been sexually ruined since. She is completely asexual now. If she had a handgun, she could have defended herself.

[This paragraph is important]
Saying "Call the police" is absurd and is a childish notion. The police in this country have no obligation to protect the citizens of the U.S.A. In South v. Maryland, Castle Rock v. Gonzales, and DeShaney v. Winnebago County, the Supreme Court has ruled that the government, and therefore the police and other associated bodies, are not legally obligated to do such things as enforce restraining orders, prevent domestic abuse, and even arrive at an active crime scene. They are not obligated to stop a single thing, they aren't even obligated to prosecute individuals after the incident. New laws are continuously created prohibiting various things, but the government doesn't have to enforce it at all.

Get a gun. Trust yourself with a mechanical tool, not a feeble and sheltered politician with a bad case of hoplophobia.

 

[Borrowed Time]

*snip*

Welcome to the Escapist and thank you for being a voice of reason.

 

[James Sokolove]

*snip*

Welcome to the Escapist and thank you for being a voice of reason.

Thanks. I saw the thread title and new it would be a crap-storm.

And let me state that right now, sitting here wishing I could go to sleep (04:10) I feel no urge for violence against anyone, not even my friend's violator. But when pushed, I will kill, and I know that anyone reading this will as well. For example, when your children are threatened by an individual, you will act quickly, and overwhelmingly. You will most probably kill if the situation is very dangerous for your children. And you will feel little remorse. This is fact. It sounds inconceivable, but you, and I mean you the reader, no matter your race, social standing, ethnic background or political or theological or philosophical background, will kill for many reasons.

 

[Iampringles]

Guns don't kill people.

He does. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xC03hmS1Brk]

 

[Scrythe]

There is no such thing as a "good" or "bad" gun.