Poll: GW2 or TOR?

[HumpinHop]

What else is there to do outside of HoM though?

Gold seems to only go to cosmetics, there's no perceivable armor or weapons to achieve after you get 70 armor/15-28 damage so making your build stronger through skill points seems useless, I already listed my gripes against PvP...what does that leave to do? As much as this seems like ranting, I'm really just trying to find something I'm doing wrong. I'd love to find out so I can enjoy it until GW2 comes out but I've just been frustrated at every turn.

Getting to maximum level is only the beginning of Guild Wars 1. Have you completed all five campaigns? Did you know there's a new one coming out sometime this month (for free, updated automatically, just like the fifth)? Have you tried Hard Mode? the Elite Dungeons? the Challenge Missions? Have you joined a strong and/or helpful guild? Have you played the new PvP games and mechanics (added last month)? Have you collected more skills and experimented with build combinations? Have you improved your skill to the point of being able to solo areas or vanquishes, or do you still rely on allies and henchmen?

Guild Wars is not about gear grinding. As Jon Peters (lead content designer) said: "...it makes no sense. It's like playing a game of Chess where one player gets two queens because he's played longer." It's not about collecting the most/best things. It's about about exploration and personal development; collecting experiences. It does have a killer PvP community (including $100,000 monthly tournaments), for people who like that sort of thing. I would recommend starting in Jade Quarry or Random Arena if you're looking to get into it.

Ironically, the best way to describe both Guild Wars games comes from Star Wars: "You must unlearn what you have learned".

I've completed Prophecies and I'm halfway through Eye of the North, but nothing about either experience makes me want to complete the other three. Every quest in the storyline is killing NPC's and running around, but there's no reward at the end of it besides skill points. I've done the challenge missions and Hard Modes, but again there's no reward because gold has no point beyond cosmetics, and the only other reward is an achievement for doing so.

What new PvP games? I've done stuff like Jade Quarry and the other ones but as I addressed earlier I dislike them for focusing too much on killing or protecting NPC's; my team actually discourages me from killing players. I haven't gone out to experiment with builds because I detest the combat system. I could have the mathematically superior build but I don't like being stationary and only using 8 skills at a time, it makes every fight into a rotation.

I get annihilated if I try anything solo, and I'll often still die sometimes with a full hench/hero group. What would be the point or reward of soloing them though if it only means more gold/skill points?

TL;DR version: So far I don't see anything to achieve, only things to do, and the things to do are not fun.

Should I just not play it if I don't like the experience of it, or keep pressing on for the allure of HoM rewards?

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

What else is there to do outside of HoM though?

Gold seems to only go to cosmetics, there's no perceivable armor or weapons to achieve after you get 70 armor/15-28 damage so making your build stronger through skill points seems useless, I already listed my gripes against PvP...what does that leave to do? As much as this seems like ranting, I'm really just trying to find something I'm doing wrong. I'd love to find out so I can enjoy it until GW2 comes out but I've just been frustrated at every turn.

Well you can do end game dungeons on Speed runs, join a PvP guild. I don't know what your gripes are with PvP. If the post game title/prestige grind doesn't appeal to you that is fine but I personally like the low armour and caps on weapons as it keeps the PvP element and later PvE elements accessible and removes a large focus away from gear and towards skill.

The cap on skills keeps the game largely accessible and cuts out most of the necessary grind. If you don't want to grind until Guild Wars 2 then you will have to play something else. Although if you want to discuss your PvP gripes I will try to do that.

Oh sorry I forgot about Guild Wars Beyond if you missed that google it and go onto the Guild Wars wiki to find more about the extra end game stuff.

 

[TitanAtlas]

It's like asking "Kids tonight would you like pizza or hamburguers?"

One is complete, and has many choices and ways to be played with a interesting story, and ends up well on my bowel system...

The other one looks good, and tastes good, but you can't overthink the fact it's slow paced on the digestion department and the looks of it won't cut it (considering they remind me too much of World of Warcraft.... tortillas)... it feels like the new speech.... on the food won't be enough has well has plasting the company's name on the product (star wars... hamburguer's).

So if i have to decide it will be the pizza... it looks good, i can change the ingredients, the combat between my stomach and the pizza slices look great and it will be a very sacstifying meal...

I noticed im using a lot of food references.... but i am really hungry... and i'm not even fat or skinny...

 

[2xDouble]

I've completed Prophecies and I'm halfway through Eye of the North, but nothing about either experience makes me want to complete the other three. Every quest in the storyline is killing NPC's and running around, but there's no reward at the end of it besides skill points. I've done the challenge missions and Hard Modes, but again there's no reward because gold has no point beyond cosmetics, and the only other reward is an achievement for doing so.

What new PvP games? I've done stuff like Jade Quarry and the other ones but as I addressed earlier I dislike them for focusing too much on killing or protecting NPC's; my team actually discourages me from killing players. I haven't gone out to experiment with builds because I detest the combat system. I could have the mathematically superior build but I don't like being stationary and only using 8 skills at a time, it makes every fight into a rotation.

I get annihilated if I try anything solo, and I'll often still die sometimes with a full hench/hero group. What would be the point or reward of soloing them though if it only means more gold/skill points?

TL;DR version: So far I don't see anything to achieve, only things to do, and the things to do are not fun.

Should I just not play it if I don't like the experience of it, or keep pressing on for the allure of HoM rewards?

Looks like you've identified several things to achieve that you haven't yet, simply because you got frustrated a few times. You haven't played Random or Team Arenas, nor have you done GvG (open up observer mode sometime and watch a match, it's very interesting). You haven't figured out any solo builds, or team builds. You haven't played any elite dungeons or challenge missions (most of them are in Factions). I think you'll enjoy carrying the dwarf or placing gears in Sorrow's Furnace, or avoiding the traps in The Deep, or playing their interesting version of Pac-Man in Remains of Salajah. (See if you can get a high score.)

I misspoke when I said new PvP games. Most of the PvP games have been retooled, making titles less frustrating and rewards improved. (seriously, have you seen the new Envoy weapons? those are wicked) They've also added the environmental effect Flux, which changes up how PvP plays every month without skill rebalancing.

Every area (except The Deep and Urgoz' Warren, which have multi-player puzzles) can be run solo with most professions, if you stay alert and plan ahead. Don't be afraid to be bold. Cover your bases and protect yourself. And don't be afraid to play with other players. The best guilds and players can teach you more than you can ever learn from a calculator, and even noob PUGs can teach you something about the game you didn't know (if only by showing you how spectacularly they can fail). In spite of the usual populations of noobs, jackasses, and morons, Guild Wars has an excellent community compared to many other games.

But if you really need "Achievement Unlocked", then yes. Titles and the Hall of Monuments are the only "achievement" systems in game... unless you get into the real Guild Tournament or Challenge Mission ladders. (Do you really need trinkets and prizes to know you had a good time?) If those don't appeal to you, you're playing it wrong maybe GW1 isn't the game for you. There's no shame in that.

Maybe you should ask yourself, what exactly are you trying to achieve?

Regardless, Guild Wars 2 is different.

 

[ResonanceSD]

It's like asking "Kids tonight would you like pizza or hamburguers?"

One is complete, and has many choices and ways to be played with a interesting story, and ends up well on my bowel system...

The other one looks good, and tastes good, but you can't overthink the fact it's slow paced on the digestion department and the looks of it won't cut it (considering they remind me too much of World of Warcraft.... tortillas)... it feels like the new speech.... on the food won't be enough has well has plasting the company's name on the product (star wars... hamburguer's).

So if i have to decide it will be the pizza... it looks good, i can change the ingredients, the combat between my stomach and the pizza slices look great and it will be a very sacstifying meal...

I noticed im using a lot of food references.... but i am really hungry... and i'm not even fat or skinny...

I'm not sure if it's just me, but I have no idea which game becomes which food in your incredibly convoluted analogy.

 

[TitanAtlas]

It's like asking "Kids tonight would you like pizza or hamburguers?"

One is complete, and has many choices and ways to be played with a interesting story, and ends up well on my bowel system...

The other one looks good, and tastes good, but you can't overthink the fact it's slow paced on the digestion department and the looks of it won't cut it (considering they remind me too much of World of Warcraft.... tortillas)... it feels like the new speech.... on the food won't be enough has well has plasting the company's name on the product (star wars... hamburguer's).

So if i have to decide it will be the pizza... it looks good, i can change the ingredients, the combat between my stomach and the pizza slices look great and it will be a very sacstifying meal...

I noticed im using a lot of food references.... but i am really hungry... and i'm not even fat or skinny...

I'm not sure if it's just me, but I have no idea which game becomes which food in your incredibly convoluted analogy.

have you tried to give it a shot and acctually read it? Cuz when i started talking about the hamburguers i used keywords such has "slow paced" action, design similiar to World of Warcraft, "speech choices" and... oh how could i forget... Star wars... thats a big keyword that would help you, that i reminded on including...

 

[HumpinHop]

I've completed Prophecies and I'm halfway through Eye of the North, but nothing about either experience makes me want to complete the other three. Every quest in the storyline is killing NPC's and running around, but there's no reward at the end of it besides skill points. I've done the challenge missions and Hard Modes, but again there's no reward because gold has no point beyond cosmetics, and the only other reward is an achievement for doing so.

What new PvP games? I've done stuff like Jade Quarry and the other ones but as I addressed earlier I dislike them for focusing too much on killing or protecting NPC's; my team actually discourages me from killing players. I haven't gone out to experiment with builds because I detest the combat system. I could have the mathematically superior build but I don't like being stationary and only using 8 skills at a time, it makes every fight into a rotation.

I get annihilated if I try anything solo, and I'll often still die sometimes with a full hench/hero group. What would be the point or reward of soloing them though if it only means more gold/skill points?

TL;DR version: So far I don't see anything to achieve, only things to do, and the things to do are not fun.

Should I just not play it if I don't like the experience of it, or keep pressing on for the allure of HoM rewards?

Looks like you've identified several things to achieve that you haven't yet, simply because you got frustrated a few times. You haven't played Random or Team Arenas, nor have you done GvG (open up observer mode sometime and watch a match, it's very interesting). You haven't figured out any solo builds, or team builds. You haven't played any elite dungeons or challenge missions (most of them are in Factions). I think you'll enjoy carrying the dwarf or placing gears in Sorrow's Furnace, or avoiding the traps in The Deep, or playing their interesting version of Pac-Man in Remains of Salajah. (See if you can get a high score.)

I misspoke when I said new PvP games. Most of the PvP games have been retooled, making titles less frustrating and rewards improved. (seriously, have you seen the new Envoy weapons? those are wicked) They've also added the environmental effect Flux, which changes up how PvP plays every month without skill rebalancing.

Every area (except The Deep and Urgoz' Warren, which have multi-player puzzles) can be run solo with most professions, if you stay alert and plan ahead. Don't be afraid to be bold. Cover your bases and protect yourself. And don't be afraid to play with other players. The best guilds and players can teach you more than you can ever learn from a calculator, and even noob PUGs can teach you something about the game you didn't know (if only by showing you how spectacularly they can fail). In spite of the usual populations of noobs, jackasses, and morons, Guild Wars has an excellent community compared to many other games.

But if you really need "Achievement Unlocked", then yes. Titles and the Hall of Monuments are the only "achievement" systems in game... unless you get into the real Guild Tournament or Challenge Mission ladders. (Do you really need trinkets and prizes to know you had a good time?) If those don't appeal to you, you're playing it wrong maybe GW1 isn't the game for you. There's no shame in that.

Maybe you should ask yourself, what exactly are you trying to achieve?

Regardless, Guild Wars 2 is different.

Alright, I think I've realized that there's things to achieve, just that the process of achieving them isn't fun. Like the problem may not be experiencing harder missions, but the core mechanics of the game. My biggest complaint about Guild Wars is the combat, none of it feels dynamic or interesting (especially compared to WoW which I played heavily prior to this), so it's hard to believe trying harder PvE/PvP would change that.

In WoW as a Hunter, I could do Aimed Shot, Arcane Shot, Concussive, and as they'd run towards me hit them with Raptor Strike and Wingclip while in midair, lay down a trap and kite them. That was just with NPC's, when you joined a battleground it was mayhem but you could react almost instantly to everything and it was really fast paced. But with GW regardless of whether I was in an instanced area, trying an arena, doing a quest, or Jade Quarry everything just feels so routine and slow. There was this intensity to combat in WoW that I can't find anywhere in this. That idea destroys the allure of building a perfect build and running through places solo, because it isn't the failure that's discouraging me, it's the lack of fun failing if that makes any sense.

I can look up and try all of those things you mentioned, but based on the mechanics it seems like I'd eventually feel the same tedium as the other events.

And to clarify, when I say achieve I mean what the game offers as a drive to completing objectives. The drive in WoW to complete a quest is a new item, money you can spend on gear, and access to more content. The only drive I see in GW to quests is so you can do another one which just isn't enough incentive when the act of completing the quests isn't enjoyable.

Thank you for putting up with this btw, and if it's any consolation I like your Avatar, one of my favorite icons from the game.

 

[bob1052]

From what we have seen GW2 is going to be innovating in a lot of areas and TOR is going to be a slower production cycle WoW.

 

[ResonanceSD]

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JQ/FA *ARE NOT* PvP. You kill NPCs to win, that's PvE. Until you've actually played PvP, (HA or GvG), you haven't experienced the mechanics properly.

Yes, PD is a brilliant skill, it's my role in HA ^_^

 

[HumpinHop]

snip

snip

JQ/FA *ARE NOT* PvP. You kill NPCs to win, that's PvE. Until you've actually played PvP, (HA or GvG), you haven't experienced the mechanics properly.

Yes, PD is a brilliant skill, it's my role in HA ^_^

I've tried a smattering of the arenas and either been carried by a team or lost horrendously and chastised for it. It felt very weird to me, like you weren't in as much control of anything, or everything was disjointed. I think if I didn't like the combat in general, I wouldn't like PvP.

What's PD stand for again?

 

[ResonanceSD]

snip

snip

JQ/FA *ARE NOT* PvP. You kill NPCs to win, that's PvE. Until you've actually played PvP, (HA or GvG), you haven't experienced the mechanics properly.

Yes, PD is a brilliant skill, it's my role in HA ^_^

I've tried a smattering of the arenas and either been carried by a team or lost horrendously and chastised for it. It felt very weird to me, like you weren't in as much control of anything, or everything was disjointed. I think if I didn't like the combat in general, I wouldn't like PvP.

What's PD stand for again?

Wow, you dabbled in something and found you weren't excellent at it from the first go, against players who spend their time in game doing nothing else . Amazing, it's like their skill was granted to them by the five gods, or something.

Psychic Distraction, Interrupts a skill, disables it for an extra 11 ish seconds

 

[HumpinHop]

snip

snip

JQ/FA *ARE NOT* PvP. You kill NPCs to win, that's PvE. Until you've actually played PvP, (HA or GvG), you haven't experienced the mechanics properly.

Yes, PD is a brilliant skill, it's my role in HA ^_^

I've tried a smattering of the arenas and either been carried by a team or lost horrendously and chastised for it. It felt very weird to me, like you weren't in as much control of anything, or everything was disjointed. I think if I didn't like the combat in general, I wouldn't like PvP.

What's PD stand for again?

Wow, you dabbled in something and found you weren't excellent at it from the first go, against players who spend their time in game doing nothing else . Amazing, it's like their skill was granted to them by the five gods, or something.

Psychic Distraction, Interrupts a skill, disables it for an extra 11 ish seconds

I had meant the PvP combat itself, not the victory/loss condition. As someone who played WoW when you could be a High Warlord, I'm exceedingly familiar with people doing nothing but PvP.

 

[ResonanceSD]

snip

snip

JQ/FA *ARE NOT* PvP. You kill NPCs to win, that's PvE. Until you've actually played PvP, (HA or GvG), you haven't experienced the mechanics properly.

Yes, PD is a brilliant skill, it's my role in HA ^_^

I've tried a smattering of the arenas and either been carried by a team or lost horrendously and chastised for it. It felt very weird to me, like you weren't in as much control of anything, or everything was disjointed. I think if I didn't like the combat in general, I wouldn't like PvP.

What's PD stand for again?

Wow, you dabbled in something and found you weren't excellent at it from the first go, against players who spend their time in game doing nothing else . Amazing, it's like their skill was granted to them by the five gods, or something.

Psychic Distraction, Interrupts a skill, disables it for an extra 11 ish seconds

I had meant the PvP combat itself, not the victory/loss condition. As someone who played WoW when you could be a High Warlord, I'm exceedingly familiar with people doing nothing but PvP.

There are multiple layers of PvP mechanics which affect the combat itself, and not the conditions of victory. PvP players know all of these and the ways to optimise damage based on them. Can you recognise every single protection magic skill effect that's being cast on the player you're hitting? No can the guys who've been playing nothing but this game mode for years? yes .

 

[Korten12]

TOR. I like Star Wars and I loved playing this game. GW2 looks cool from what I've seen but I haven't heard much about it.

Here you go:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.236131-All-yours-Guild-Wars-2-Information-Topic-Dungeon-and-Underwater-info-6-25-11

One of us... One of us... D:

 

[The Hero Killer]

Guild Wars 2 by far. The orignal was my favordite MMO or whatever you want to classify it as. I still havent forgiven Bioware for making a MMO instead of KOTOR 3. Especially one with graphics that match the Clone Wars cartoon show.

 

[Azahul]

Given that I played the original GW for three years, and that I've been following GW2 since ArenaNet announced they'd be making Eye of the North and starting work on GW2 instead of a new expansion, I really think that my answer is a foregone conclusion. Besides, I don't actually regard Star Wars as anything exceptional. It's a good story and an interesting setting, but I can think of many vastly more interesting science fiction and fantasy settings.

To top it off, TOR looks boring. No other way to say it. Especially next to GW2. The difference in the animation quality is staggering, and the aesthetic style they've gone for with TOR looks rather cartoonish. GW2's rather artistic aesthetic looks vastly superior, in my mind, and I'm loving the way they've chosen to do cinematics.
I'm not even going to touch on the actual gameplay differences. The fact that GW2 is doing something new and interesting while SWTOR is just churning out a repeat of WoW's mechanics has been well-established by this point.

 

[PickledMonkey]

TOR for me.

It looks like WoW in space with a fantastic BioWare story. In all honesty, I thought WoW became less fun after hitting level cap. Suddenly, the whole aspect of adventure, exploration, and getting into the lore was gone. It became an endless competitive quest for the best gear. ToR seems to be promising 8 different experiences to recapture that first leveling experience, and that's good enough for me.

GW2 likes to boast about it's innovating new combat, quest design, dungeons, group dynamics, etc. It all sounds like it could make some neat gameplay, but I'm not interested in that. I played GW1 for about 6 months when it first came out. I beat the campaign and was trying to do the bonus objectives in the missions before I picked up WoW. Gameplay just needs a good difficulty curve to make me happy, other than that I look for the adventure to keep me going. To me, TOR offers a far more epic adventure than GW2.

 

[Tohuvabohu]

TOR

What a lot of people are saying about the games bland look, odd animations, unremarkable nature of the combat, etc.
I can see where people are coming from when they say that, although I personally take those as nitpicks because I still have a lot of interest in the game.

GW2 does indeed look great for an MMO, and the combat gameplay does look quite "new" for an MMO. If I had the chance to play the first one, I would no doubt be really excited for this one. But I just never did, and I still don't have a great interest in trying this one. (The interest is still there though).

It's just that I've always loved the Old Republic universe. The races, the politics, the planets, it was great getting to experience it all during the KOTOR games. I'm not sure what to think of the fact that we're getting an MMO instead of KOTOR 3, but I do like the idea of the game actually being "massive" and hopefully covers plenty more locations and planets we didn't see in the other games. I'd even like to see some of the worlds we already explored again, like how Taris is doing ever since the Ithorian restoration project, or maybe seeing what the Rakata are doing and uncovering more of their history.

Oh, and I actually am very interested in the dialogue between players and NPC's. Hopefully this can nail a bit more of the Role Playing aspect of MMORPG's nicely. I plan on playing the game with friends, so I'd love to see what each of our characters get to say during a talky scene. As for the rest of the game, I think it looks pretty good. I'm excited for sure.

 

[HumpinHop]

TOR

What a lot of people are saying about the games bland look, odd animations, unremarkable nature of the combat, etc.
I can see where people are coming from when they say that, although I personally take those as nitpicks because I still have a lot of interest in the game.

GW2 does indeed look great for an MMO, and the combat gameplay does look quite "new" for an MMO. If I had the chance to play the first one, I would no doubt be really excited for this one. But I just never did, and I still don't have a great interest in trying this one. (The interest is still there though).

It's just that I've always loved the Old Republic universe. The races, the politics, the planets, it was great getting to experience it all during the KOTOR games. I'm not sure what to think of the fact that we're getting an MMO instead of KOTOR 3, but I do like the idea of the game actually being "massive" and hopefully covers plenty more locations and planets we didn't see in the other games. I'd even like to see some of the worlds we already explored again, like how Taris is doing ever since the Ithorian restoration project, or maybe seeing what the Rakata are doing and uncovering more of their history.

Oh, and I actually am very interested in the dialogue between players and NPC's. Hopefully this can nail a bit more of the Role Playing aspect of MMORPG's nicely. I plan on playing the game with friends, so I'd love to see what each of our characters get to say during a talky scene. As for the rest of the game, I think it looks pretty good. I'm excited for sure.

Don't let missing the first GW discourage you, they're leagues apart, and GW2 is set around 250 years into the future so retaining all the lore isn't as necessary.

 

[BanicRhys]

I'll be playing GW2 because it fixes everything I hate about WoW at the moment, plus, I'm not that fond of TOR because who is honestly going to roll a non lightsaber class? Doesn't sit well with me.