Poll: Healthpacks vs. Regenerating Health

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AnAngryMoose

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Nightvalien said:
regenerating means you suck at the game and can suck your thump every so often, it's just a mechanic to sell more to a broader more stupid crowd that wouldn't be able to play a game unless they are led.
I apologise if a game's mechanics mean people suck at the game. So, everyone on the planet sucks at CoD? Even the people at the top of the leaderboards? News to me.

Hope you haven't received too many warnings, mate. Congratulations on insulting the intelligence of every single person who has indulged, even for a second, in a game with regenerating health. I assume you're included in this since you must have at least experienced it in this day and age. Your 'arguement' is pretty indicative of that.
 

Tohuvabohu

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Mar 24, 2011
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I like to lean towards health packs. We can balance the game all day in and out towards regenerating health, but the bottom line is that you can make all your near-death issues go away by hiding behind a chest high wall for a few seconds. This is usually the most common concept of regenerating health.

Not that the concept of having a finite amount of health is perfect. It requires more fine tuning which unfortunately some games aren't capable of accomplishing.

Far Cry 2's system is one I liked a lot. It took some of the only good things about regenerating health and combined it with the maintenance of healing kits. And it was entertaining as well (Some of those healing animations were painful to watch.)

Although it worked out well in Far Cry's favor. Since it was a game about open world exploration, and a big thing about the game was preparing before making an assault, and health kit refills were pretty frequent. Something like this could be stretched to lots of other games as well.

Mr.K. said:
Regenerating health is lazy design and also fits well with the lazy gamer, you reset all your fuck ups every time you step out of the hailstorm of bullets, essentially negating all possible sense of consequence.
"realism" they call it...

Health bars/health packs are an added tactical mechanic that force you to actually avoid getting hit because the fuck-ups will stay with you.
I never even notice how important they are to gameplay until these modern shooters came along, then I went from a session of run&gun CoD back to Half-Life and got my ass handed to me.

The real downside is they require good level design and balance, something most developers prefer to avoid in the prospects of a quick release.
That's pretty much the way I look at it. A good example of a very strict concept of "fucking up" was SWAT 4. Besides the fact that one bullet could instantly kill you, getting shot at all meant having to deal with non-healable injuries that cripple your performance. Injured legs meant moving at a snails pace, injured arms meant horrible aim, etc.

It can be frustrating to deal with, but in general you have no one to blame but yourself for getting injured.

Back to how Far Cry 2 worked, the minor regenerating health basically allowed you to shrug off minor glancing damage, which could potentially add up to a headache in the middle of a fight. But became significantly punishing if you took too much damage too quickly(<-Usually constitutes as 'fucking up'). Needing you to use up your healing items. Which is the strong point of being able to carry your healing items instead of the old ways of stepping on top of health kits splayed out throughout levels. You can use one whenever you want to get your ass moving.

I can live with regenerating health, but the most common applications of it feels like a lazy handholding mechanic to me. I appreciate it when it can be spiced up in a way. Like in Far Cry 2, or even in Halo Reach, which regenerated only a small percentage of health. It just feels appropriate, having lingering injuries that requires a health kit, given the fact that I was just caught in an explosion that wiped out all my friends. Regenerating to 100% health just by hiding even though I was horrendously injured by a rocket blast feels silly.
 

Jackle_666

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This is the 2nd thread in a day in which a genre institution of Halo's creation has been slaughtered in a pole. Is night falling upon gamings biggest phenomenon?
 

DirgeNovak

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Jul 23, 2008
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I'm playing through Resistance: Fall of Man right now. This is definitely the way to go.
 

Elsarild

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I'm going to go with hybrid on this one as well, as the allready mentioned Hybrid in Far cry 2 was pretty good, and the healing factor was.. interresting with the protagonist pulling stuff out and fixing himself up (Though after having my fingers broken twice, pulled out several bullets from both arms, legs and feet, caugth fire 3 times, broke my arm twice, and pulled both shards of glass, twigs and metal shrapnel from both arms and legs, it would seem rather... implausible to keep on going, but I digress.)

As someone posted before me, they can both work if implemented correctly, but going back to the examble of the Duke, Healthpacks are the way to go, playing through the demo I came to the realisation that I spent alot of time in cover, and in a Duke game, that is a nogo, I want to be able to take 20 bullets to the face and then fix myself up after with bandages.

But in other games, as in crysis 2, regeneration health makes more sense, since you are in a high tech nanosuit that allready works on keep your body from falling apart.
 

JohnnyDelRay

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Managing health packs can be a pain in the ass, especially when you can't decide whether to grab one or save it for when you get gutted later. I like holding a few in your inventory, kinda like RPG's. But it really depends on the game. If it breaks up the pace too much, then it's just done wrong. In Rainbow 6 Vegas 2 (I seem to be citing that game a lot these days) you're supposed to think before you go into a confrontation anyways. But in some games, the health pack method actually keeps the pace going fast and furious. And regen health can also keep the pace intense as well, if the design allows. I mean, confrontations are not epically long in tactics type games anyhow. In Gears of War maybe, gunfights can be long because your enemies take so much damage and keep spawning. In Call of Juarez though, you only need to plug enemies once or twice, you spend more time reloading your revolvers one freaking bullet at at time rather than waiting for health to regen.

ColeusRattus said:
So conclusively, I prefer games with no health meter, where one or two hits kill you (original R6, Red Orchestra, ArmA...)

Now, what's your take on this?
Original R6, and Raven Shield were *brutally* difficult, but for some reason I loved them. When I re-installed that game about 6 months ago I was astounded at how damn hard it was....and to think I completed all the terrorist hunts in that game with ease, including the expansions, once upon a time =( If you got hit once and survived you would be limping around like a wounded dog and be fodder anyways
 

GrimHeaper

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Elsarild said:
I'm going to go with hybrid on this one as well, as the allready mentioned Hybrid in Far cry 2 was pretty good, and the healing factor was.. interresting with the protagonist pulling stuff out and fixing himself up (Though after having my fingers broken twice, pulled out several bullets from both arms, legs and feet, caugth fire 3 times, broke my arm twice, and pulled both shards of glass, twigs and metal shrapnel from both arms and legs, it would seem rather... implausible to keep on going, but I digress.)

As someone posted before me, they can both work if implemented correctly, but going back to the examble of the Duke, Healthpacks are the way to go, playing through the demo I came to the realisation that I spent alot of time in cover, and in a Duke game, that is a nogo, I want to be able to take 20 bullets to the face and then fix myself up after with bandages.

But in other games, as in crysis 2, regeneration health makes more sense, since you are in a high tech nanosuit that allready works on keep your body from falling apart.
Makes sense for duke beign the mans man after all.
And for a game like crysis it works.
However in a game like COD it makes no sense nor does the health kits, it's should be 1-3 and you die and that just really takes you out of it.
 

Pierce Graham

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Jun 1, 2011
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Health packs, for sure. Regenerating health makes things too easy. Though I hate it when people say that regenerating health makes the game more "realistic". How is taking over 600,000,000 bullets, hiding behind a wall as all your wounds magically heal themselves more realistic than patching yourself up with a medkit? Because medkits are what we use in real life.
 

Sir Boss

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Mar 24, 2011
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Dr. McD said:
Sir Boss said:
If you had watched Extra Credits you'd know that regenning health has another upside, it results in better level design due to the dev team knowing exactly how much health the player will be at any given time and not having to guess...
I disagree, with the focus on scavenging removed exploration goes out the window, and firefights become a matter "hide behind cover and shoot at the other guy", which is just boring.

I prefer healthpacks that can be taken with you.

I am by no means saying regenning is better, as you'll notice in my original i stated hybrid was my favorite. in fact, i dislike regenning, but was just trying to get the facts out.
 

Voodoomancer

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Jun 8, 2009
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It's the same as EVERY other game mechanic: It depends on the game. Regenerating health works well for Modern Warfare, Healthpacks work great in Half Life. Depends on the game.
 

Naeo

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Dec 31, 2008
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I like a hybrid system, a la Halo:CE. As in, you just plain have both. Have a regenerating health part and a non-regenerating part that requires health packs to restore.

Though overall I generally prefer regenerating health because I don't have to spend as much time scavenging for supplies, and it means that if I made a goof in one battle and got really hurt in it it doesn't screw me over for however unspeakable long it takes me to find another health pack.
 

GrizzlyLives

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May 26, 2011
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Looking at the poll I see more people want health packs than anything else and I can honestly say that if Duke Nukem forever had health packs the game would be TERRIBLE unless you you take like 1 HP per bullet.this is because the gameplay seems high action and fast paced so looking around all day for health packs will get very repetitive very quickly (especially if the game is linear) and the all action fast paced game that duke looks to be will end up being a battle then a scavenger hunt for 5 minuets. also I think that the only reason people want health packs in Duke Nukem is because the nostalgia is ruing there judgement. I mean c'mon people think of it this way imagine Duke like a new never before seen game would you want health packs in it?
(Note: ALL OPINION AND SPECULATION ON DUKE NUKEM JUDGED OFF THE DEMO)
 

Carbo

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In the case of Duke Nukem I never really understood why people thought that you could go out in Duke 3D and go rambo on everyone without being blasted to hell and back - Duke 3D required strategy. It was balls fucking hard at times. Maybe it's just the unpredictability of the 2.5 3D shooters but shit man, I think I would run and hide in DN3D at least as much as other shooter games, with the exception that I'd have to backtrack to find a health kit or whatever. Duke Nukem Forever definitely lends itself more to the "run out and gun everyone" mentality people like to think Duke to have, instead of what Duke actually did in Duke Nukem 3D. There's a split contrast in between what people believe and what they liked.

I think a fair compromise for Duke is to nerf the health regeneration and add med kits or health items that speed it up/add it up instead, sort of like Enslaved, and it'd also go hand in hand with his "Ego" health in that it increases due to the belief that he's untouchable or whatever.
 

karloss01

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Jul 5, 2009
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War for Cybertron had the Hybrid health like farcry's. I prefer that one the most.

regenerating health feels cheap to me, knock down all but a sliver of an enemy's health he hides/runs away only to heal with no penalties while you have just wasted a clip of ammo. also it encourages camping.
 

Jabberwock xeno

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Athlumney said:
I prefer hybrid, in the style of Halo:CE and Reach. You have a regening shield and then a pack healable set of bars, I find it makes it feel like you can always come back even if your opponents have more healable bars.
Actually, ALL halo games have been like this:

You have regenerating sheilds, and non regenerating health.

It's just that in 2 and 3, your health bar was hidden from you.
 

berettastorm88

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Apr 2, 2011
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personally i love hybrids, halo reach is my favorite example of how a hybrid should work.
but it all depends on the game, i dislike CoD BO already but if it used health packs i would burn that overpriced Frisbee.
but at the same time i am disappointed with dukes sudden health regeneration.
i'm not saying every game should have hybrids i'm saying games need to stick with what they know or branch from regeneration and health packs.
and one of the reasons i love health regenerate is because you get through a tough area and then duck behind cover to get a quick break and your ready for the next fight, not screwed if the enemy almost killed you and you have no idea where all the health packs are at.
thats why i think games were you find health kits and carry them around are really good
I.E. L4D, S.T.A.L.K.E.R.
 

Vibhor

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Carbo said:
In the case of Duke Nukem I never really understood why people thought that you could go out in Duke 3D and go rambo on everyone without being blasted to hell and back - Duke 3D required strategy. It was balls fucking hard at times. Maybe it's just the unpredictability of the 2.5 3D shooters but shit man, I think I would run and hide in DN3D at least as much as other shooter games, with the exception that I'd have to backtrack to find a health kit or whatever. Duke Nukem Forever definitely lends itself more to the "run out and gun everyone" mentality people like to think Duke to have, instead of what Duke actually did in Duke Nukem 3D. There's a split contrast in between what people believe and what they liked.

I think a fair compromise for Duke is to nerf the health regeneration and add med kits or health items that speed it up/add it up instead, sort of like Enslaved, and it'd also go hand in hand with his "Ego" health in that it increases due to the belief that he's untouchable or whatever.
You are kidding me right?
Duke nukem 3D was baby easy.
Doom was harder than it. The easy comes from the fact that it didn't had the shit doom had(enemies spawning behind your back) and the other part comes from the huge arsenal. You must know this now that you suck at DN3D. It was exactly a run and gun game and cover was(except in boss stages) useless.
 

Hristo Tzonkov

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Apr 5, 2010
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I'll have to answer with depends.If we're talking about singleplayer then yes go for regenerating health.It has a better flow to me.If it's multiplayer I say healthpacks or lack of regeneration whatsoever like in CS.Why?Because it naturally eliminates campers most of the time.You can't down several people one after the other after they know your position .Barely coming out of a fight alive makes you more careful and improves your game rather than hide and lol full hp.
 

Mikeyfell

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Aug 24, 2010
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Regenerating health turns shooters into a game of hide and seek at the special school.

"I see you!"
*Duck behind a wall
"Where did you go?"
There are no consequences for screw ups, and as a result every fight is the same.