My most emphatic appologies for this massive post with numerous quotes in it. I know that everyone has the right to skip any post at any time, but, just to remind you, if you don't want to read a long post from me, you can skip past and continue enjoying this thread as though I never existed.
NeutralDrow said:
LackofCertainty said:
#10 Rei
Uninteresting character laden with angst. It might just be because of my hatred for angst, but I really don't understand the appeal of NGE at all. But that's a topic for another time. Cut her. Crap, I was suppose to throw a flame warning in here... ah well, bring the hate NGE lovers.
...I find it rather strange that you could pick a series so laden with angst and pick out the
least angsty character on the entire show.
That's not even hate, I'm honestly confused. You pick out the archetypal soulless, emotionless girl and call her angsty?
I will admit when I'm wrong. (or at least misguided in this case) I hold the sins of the father over the son. Rei in herself isn't very angsty, but the problem with NGE is that she is a vessel for Shinji to express his overflowing angst. "Oh god, I'm Shinji. How can they just use Rei like a weapon... I'll step it just to keep her from fighting, and then I won't stop crying about it for the rest of the series."
Even so, you can't call Rei a "good character" because her entire design is that she has no character. Aww look, she's all bandaged up, and she doesn't care that she's being used as a weapon more or less. That's not a good character, that's a doll. (a doll that some people like to drool over, unfortunately)
Sure, they might've done a great job portraying her as a doll, but in doing so you're basically forfiting any best character competition. You can't win a best character competition if you make a girl who's thing is that she has no character.
It's like... if there was a "World's Biggest Pumpkin Competition" and you show up with a five story tall watermelon. Yes, it's big, but that's not what the point of the competition was, so you get sent home with nothing.
RabbitDynamite said:
In a sense a list like this is always going to start a flame war, so it does seem sensible for IGN to just pick a grab-bag of well known characters for damage control. That said, it does kind of annoy me there seems no kind logic here. Although Goku would be nowhere near my top 25 favourite characters on the basis of having the depth of a paper plate, I can easily accept his top spot in that nearly every protagonist of shonen (i.e. big money)since DB has been patterned on him. But then why have the deriatives in Naruto, Luffy and ichigo show up as well? Surely in a list of influential characters needs Amuro and Char on there? It just... gah. It's an awful, awful awful list, not because I disagree with it, but because there is on basis on which to disagree with it. Its completely arbitrary.
Me said:
But why bother when this is the kind of response you get? Just like everyone else on the internet, your opinion itself is of no interest to me or anyone. The reasons why you hold your opinion may be. The only thing I know about your metric of quality is you don't like angst-ridden characters. Real helpful. If you state what you think is good or bad without justification then state that so and so is "the best" or "the worst" you A: contribute nothing to the discussion and B: come across as self centred for confusing subjective opinion with some objective metric of quality.
Let me address you concerns one by one.
1. I whole heartedly agree with you that the list is stupid. Trying to create a list with these criteria:
IGN said:
Our criteria for selection involved a little bit of everything - each character's lasting fame, the impact they had on the medium and their particular genre at the time, the depth and quality of their realization on screen, and of course, a little bit of personal taste. Everyone out there has their own damned opinion, of course, so have a look at ours, and then feel free to share yours afterwards.
... is foolish. Does the impact that a character had count for more in this list than how good the depth of the character was? How do you give a score for lasting fame, when that is entirely based on which person you ask? I mean if you ask a kid nowadays about Speed racer or astro boy, their only knowledge of the subject is that they are live action movies that came out/are coming out. They're more likely to know about Naruto, than they are about DBZ. In the end it's just a toss up and the reviewers "little bit of personal taste" ends up counting for more than any other category.
2.I will fully admit that my post comes off as self centered, because I am a self centered man, but I don't understand the other half of section B in your post.
"I come across as self centered..." Yes, that's a given. "for confusing subjective opinion with some objective metric of quality." ... Huh? Where did I suggest that my opinion was an objective metric? Did I not preface my entire list by saying:
MyselfAgain said:
To reitterate, this is a "Top characters" list for me. Not a "Most influentia anime series" or "most popular characters" or anything like that. "Top Characters" = "Best Characters" ... in my humble opinion.
I admit to lieing in the bolded section, because I am by no means humble, but I never suggested that my opinion was anything other than my opinion. Perhaps I should have started my post by saying,
Me said:
To me, I think the most important aspect for a top character list is the character's depth, and how interesting they are to watch, so keep in mind when I suggest changes to IGN's list that this will be the primary reason behind said changes. I will still take other aspects into account, but I will not give a character a slot on my version of the list, if they are a crummy character who only made IGN's list because of their popular or influentia show. Also, this is all my opinion, so if you don't care about my opinion then feel free to skip this post, because nothing in it will entertain you.
3. I don't really have a point to end on, and I now regret using a numbered list to respond to you, because numbered lists look silly with only two points.