Poll: Is 40K serious?

[Starke]

There is a very deliberate sense of humor to the entire thing. Granted, some of the humor requires some pretty specific pop-culture or historical knowledge, but the setting, from the term "grimdark" to the over the top approach to everything, to the ludicrous proportions of some of the minis is filled with one kind of parody or another.

 

[Starke]

Warhammer is over the top on purpose.
Take it seriously?
Don't be so serious.

Take it seriously, or play it straight?

Honestly, I've no problem with people playing it straight, which can be pretty funny it their own right, but it is a fine line.

 

[roostuf]

do i take wh4ok seriously? No. its a game always has and always will be no matter what type, either on tabletop or pc. The grimark and "seriousness" is there to flesh out the story, the characters, the universe in which it is set.

I love the game and its grimly wacky lore, especially the space-marines.

 

[CrawlingPastaHellion]

I find the whole ordeal of good versus evil extremely ridiculous. The fact that it's set 38k years into the future makes it even more ridiculous.

Doesn't mean it can't be fun though.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Doesn't sound terribly interesting, does it? Needs are met, but it all exists to keep the wars going. And if our unfortunate scribe above happened to die on his way to work the next day, no one would mourn him. He'd be immediately replaced, and the big machine would keep on turning.

Sorry, can't agreee with that suggestion. It's your WH40k and if you're happy with it then by all means, have fun.

As for me, i can't accept this vision. It may be ok for some mad country hidden behind steel curtain, but not for 40 000 years old empire spanning over distances measured in thousands of lightyears. Half of that Imperium shouldn't neither know about some "crusade" taking place God-Emperor knows where, nor really care. "Really... Orks ? Living, animated corpses ? There are no such things. It's superstition".

Most Imperial citizens don't know that there is a war going on. Only when the Administratum sends the Tithe officers to their planet to levy every fit man into active service. Much of the Imperium is ignorant of the xenos species out there trying to kill them, and the only time they ever see an alien is when said alien is chopping them to bits.

If you are interested in seeing the office job workers of the Imperium, look up the short story "A Good Man" by Sandy Mitchell. It is in the Sabbat Worlds Anthology book, and instead of focusing on the frontline combat, it focuses on the follow up procedures of getting a planet back on track after the war moved on.

 

[Jared Domenico]

I got into Warhammer 40,000 well long after its parodic roots were eclipsed by its current state of 'grimdark seriousness,' and while it is imaginable that I would hold a bias towards its current iteration, I actually prefer 40K as it is now: a science fiction universe based on the worst case scenario nearly always being the only scenario.

Its a future where everything that could go wrong did, and in the worst way possible.

It is a universe where humanity stepped out from earth and found a galaxy hostile to its existence. It is a universe where humankind only just pulled itself from the brink of extinction and is trying desperately to maintain the only viable means of defense against hostile forces from within, without, and beyond.

I, quite frankly, find that very compelling.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

I find the whole ordeal of good versus evil extremely ridiculous. The fact that it's set 38k years into the future makes it even more ridiculous.

Not as much good versus evil, as "assholes" versus "every other asshole"

 

[CrawlingPastaHellion]

...I actually prefer 40K as it is now: a science fiction universe based on the worst case scenario nearly always being the only scenario...

Tell me, how is WH40k a sci-fi? Only because it's set into the future? It's about as sci-fi as "Star Wars".

I find the whole ordeal of good versus evil extremely ridiculous. The fact that it's set 38k years into the future makes it even more ridiculous.

Not as much good versus evil, as "assholes" versus "every other asshole"

Well, that actually makes it even more ridiculous. ^_^

 

[Dr Snakeman]

If your answer to any of those questions is 'no', then you either have no sense of humor or Warhammer just isn't for you, so ignore it.

Interesting. First post on this forum and all you do is scolding over simple question.

Setting with every planet, city complex, space station or vessel bearing name stolen from some Black Metal band ? Without any plausible economy ? With heavily armored knights dying as easily as light infantrymen ? Serious ? No. By all gods, no !

The fuck? Economy is based on forge worlds processing materials stripped from mine worlds, food is produced by dedicated agri-worlds and hosing space is provided by planets turned into vast tower blocks. Economy exists, it's just on a grand scale.

Nope, it isn't economy.

Actually it looks a lot like an overblown version of the Soviet economy during the early years of the USSR. Each area has dedicated labour to do and its all controlled by a central hub. It's not a particularly good system but it is an economy.

Its the foundations for economy. The aggri worlds trade products for the weapons, or people, people work and aquire moneys. I suppose you will ask me where it all started, well, about 30,000 years ago they implimented trading for universal credits for the layman and the big corps and houses pay in large amounts of resources, or give resources for credits. Now stop being silly, trading exists like it developped on earth on a much grander scale, and bank accounts. They exist too.

Well, OP, you've got your answer. Almost no one takes WH40K seriously because of how crazy it is. Except this guy. For him, even minutia like the economic system of a fictional 'eternal-war-universe' is serious business. A fun game with miniatures, set in an absurdly dark world? Please. This shit's a religion, and if you don't think so, then you just need to shut up.

 

[Nouw]

Both yes and no. At certain times, it is meant to be taken seriously like in some of the novels. The Horus Heresy have some very, very sad stories which I don't think were written for laughs. And at other times, it's so over-the-top crazy that you can't do anything else other than laugh. As other people said, it was a satire.

 

[ccggenius12]

As for me, i can't accept this vision. It may be ok for some mad country hidden behind steel curtain, but not for 40 000 years old empire spanning over distances measured in thousands of lightyears. Half of that Imperium shouldn't neither know about some "crusade" taking place God-Emperor knows where, nor really care. "Really... Orks ? Living, animated corpses ? There are no such things. It's superstition".

And said God Emperor immediately has you put to death as one of the thousand he needs daily to prolong his life for even considering such a notion.
Orks gots da best ekonomy. If ya needs some gitz, ya knocks out some teef, don't matter whose, and ya goes and buys your stuff.
Also, ork kulture is its own self-sustaining biomass. They grow from spores, after said spores have first created self sustaining food sources, and slave labor. Said economy favors no one, as teeth deteriorate over time, making hoarding a pointless endeavor, as well as ork biology making it impossible for an ork to be completely destitute.

Personally, I find the lore to be far more interesting when you consider it to be Doctor Who's contrarian half brother. I might be off base, but I feel like the 2 mythos share a similar audience. (I've been getting that a lot lately, including other stuff like MLP and anime. I just generally get the feeling that people who enjoy said things would also enjoy Doctor Who greatly.)

 

[Soviet Heavy]

...I actually prefer 40K as it is now: a science fiction universe based on the worst case scenario nearly always being the only scenario...

Tell me, how is WH40k a sci-fi? Only because it's set into the future? It's about as sci-fi as "Star Wars".

I find the whole ordeal of good versus evil extremely ridiculous. The fact that it's set 38k years into the future makes it even more ridiculous.

Not as much good versus evil, as "assholes" versus "every other asshole"

Well, that actually makes it even more ridiculous. ^_^

And that's why I love it. There are people who take it way too seriously, and then there are people who see an entire race of green soccer hooligans who paint their vehicles red because they believe that red ones go faster.

 

[Ordinaryundone]

Doesn't sound terribly interesting, does it? Needs are met, but it all exists to keep the wars going. And if our unfortunate scribe above happened to die on his way to work the next day, no one would mourn him. He'd be immediately replaced, and the big machine would keep on turning.

Sorry, can't agreee with that suggestion. It's your WH40k and if you're happy with it then by all means, have fun.

As for me, i can't accept this vision. It may be ok for some mad country hidden behind steel curtain, but not for 40 000 years old empire spanning over distances measured in thousands of lightyears. Half of that Imperium shouldn't neither know about some "crusade" taking place God-Emperor knows where, nor really care. "Really... Orks ? Living, animated corpses ? There are no such things. It's superstition".

Suggestion, what? Color me confused.

And most of the Imperium doesn't believe in Chaos or the like, mostly because they've never seen it. Sure, they hear the preaching of the church, but to them its similar to stories about the Devil to Christians. Xenos are a more real threat, but most citizens have never seen an Alien, and full of misconception and misinformation about their enemies (Eldar have hollow bones and will break if they move too fast, Tau are monkeys, Orks are mostly fat and not as strong as they look, etc.) The Imperial Guardsmen's Uplifting Primer is hilarious for this kind of stuff.

As for the Crusades and wars being fought, the only real effect that has on most people is propaganda (YOU ARE WORKING SO OUR BOYS CAN KEEP FIGHTING!, PURGE THE XENOS, etc.) and information from the church and Administratum. Many worlds also pay tithes in the form of Imperial Guard recruitment, so there is that too. On the whole, your average citizen is EXTREMELY ignorant of what the actual galaxy is like in 40k verse, which is exactly how the Imperium wants it. Curiosity and information breed dissent and heresy, which leads to Chaos.

 

[MadMechanic]

I can see that the 'American' argument might rile some feathers. In my defence, I'd say that the British have always done self-deprecation and sarcasm better than most, and that British humour tends to get a little lost on the other side of the Atlantic. Case in point, the number of Americans who think 40K is supposed to be a straight-faced depiction of a future universe, despite the presence of a race who can make their vehicles go faster by painting them red.

While a lot of people don't get the humour in the universe, I notice that a lot of American players mistake it for the same sort of military-worshipping, gun-porn sci-fi that is so prevalent in American culture. They're used to a different kind of science fiction at the end of the day.

When you put it like that, I feel more inclined to agree with you. I've noticed on forums like Whineseer that it's usually the non-Brit players who say "X is too silly/stupid".

I feel one of the reasons people don't like 40K marines is that they aren't like marines in popular culture. They aren't American marines - they aren't all bro-fisting each other and yelling 'ooooh-rah!' at each other every other minute.(Looks at Halo's UNSC and Gears of War)

...holy shit! I never saw the connection between Ghazgull Thrakka and the Iron Lady. It makes perfect sense. One was a leathery-skinned orc with a taste for blood and a determination to grind industry into the ground. And the other was a character from a table-top game. Zing!

To be fair, as a Northerner and a politics/history student, I saw it pretty quick. I feel it's a shame that in the recent Ork book they haven't played that up as much.

 

[Dr Snakeman]

Setting with every planet, city complex, space station or vessel bearing name stolen from some Black Metal band ? Without any plausible economy ? With heavily armored knights dying as easily as light infantrymen ? Serious ? No. By all gods, no !

The fuck? Economy is based on forge worlds processing materials stripped from mine worlds, food is produced by dedicated agri-worlds and hosing space is provided by planets turned into vast tower blocks. Economy exists, it's just on a grand scale. Do your research, or shut up.

Let me qualify this by saying I have been a massive 40k fan for 11 years now. I have a sizeable Alpha Legion army and an in progress World Eaters army. Yesterday the stuff I ordered to finish my Goliath gang for Necromunda came in the mail. I love 40k.

But he's right about a lot of the logistics making no sense. You just have to turn off that part of your brain and accept it. For instance, the Death Korps of Krieg. They willingly sacrifice entire regiments as long as they win. They come from one planet. They can not sustain these tactics for long. But you just have to put that thought out of your mind and go with it.

In the grim darkness of the far future human beings breed like rabbits.

Well, yeah. There's not really anything to do except fuck, wait nine months for the baby, and then wait for something to come along and kill you all. And on the off chance that you do survive an Ork attack (or Tyranid, or Chaos, or your own damn government), you'll probably be really happy to be alive.

Really happy. Happy enough for some "holy god, I can't believe we made it" sex.

Then *boom*. Another kid. It's a vicious cycle.

 

[lordmardok]

Simple answer is this: the 40k Universe has elements of dark humor and just dark grit in it, same as any full fledged universe should have.

Chaos is as much dangerous as it is strange and just plain weird. If you read about the Noise Marines by the way it's pretty interesting, they're sensates, their bodies are modified and grotesquely stretched to amplify the maximum amount of sensation they get from everything, the louder the noise, the brighter the color, the more garish the contrast, the better it is to them. Do some research though please, it's quite insulting to have someone tell you that a Universe you enjoy is laughable, read up on the world, check your facts, don't just presume that you know how any universe works until you've done a little fact-finding. Read the Lexicanum, its a wikia site for the Warhammer Universe.

Yes the orks are funny, I mean seriously, cockney greenskins rampaging around the galaxy? That's fucking hilarious, they're a long time fan favorite because they're so over the top and strange, half their tek doesn't even work properly or has random effects. But pointing to them and saying 'See? UNIVERSE IS NOT SERIOUS' is taking something terribly out of context. Look at it IN CONTEXT and it changes drastically.

Orks are a race of aliens who literally are born to wage endless war. They have no other desire but to fight and kill and win. They cannot be reasoned with, the whole meaning of their existence is based on war, and they will fight and fight until either they or everyone else is dead simply because it pleases them to do so. Even if you kill them they will come back, in order to totally purge and Ork invasion you have to scorch and salt entire continents or even whole planets, damning potentially billions of lives to save trillions more.

The Eldar are not always defeated by the way, just because their armies are defeated or their leaders are slain doesn't mean their end was not achieved. They have plots with plots, they start wars between Empires just to achieve a single goal, they have no moral quandaries about sacrificing a billion lesser lives to save a handful of their own dying people.

Anyways, Sorry to get so worked up, Warhammer 40k is one of my favorite universes because it perfectly turns every conception on its head.

Tolerance is condemned, because to tolerate the alien or the heretic is to allow their influence to spread, possibly damning a whole planet or sector.

Peace is impossible because Orks live only to fight, Necrons have only one purpose, galactic genocide, Eldar care only for their own dying race, and Tyranids exist only to feast on life.

Blind faith is demanded because knowing even the name of a daemon can give it power over your mind, knowing a heresy can subvert you without you even noticing. Literally, what you don't know can't hurt you and what you do can damn your soul.

It's a universe of eternal war because violence is truly the only answer. I think that the amount of thought and effort that went into that world is worthy of some respect, don't you?

 

[Axolotl]

You've got to bear in mind just where 40K came from conceptually, I mean it's largely just typical fantasy with Star Wars tech but also with heavy helpings of Dune. However easily the biggest influence on 40K in terms of tone is 2000 AD (especially Nemesis the Warlock but not quite as preachy). Once you spot this and understand it the whole setting makes alot more sense, it's basically an exercise in camp nihilism, taking cheesy sci-fi ala Star Trek/Star Wars/Flash Gordon/Buck Rogers and so on and then making tongue-in-cheek and twisting it to be as dark as possible. Then combining this with a bunch of riffs on all the historical periods and genre styles the developers liked, filtered through artwork styled after HR Giger and Hieronymus Bosch and you end up with 40K. The whole thing is best described as a baroque characture and it take only a slight twist to remove all the satire or to make it a full on parody. And there are alot of works that do these that make it completely straight or make it a comedy with slapstick, puns and pop-culture refrences (although the slapstick involves genocide, the puns revolve around cannibalism and the pop culture is distopian literature).

So in answer to whether I take it seriously or not seriously I have to say both, simply because the setting allows for both interpretations without nessasarily falling apart.

 

[soulless-5]

the lore exists to increase the fun of a battle by giving some reason why two sides are fighting. In that respect it can either be serious (protect the holly shrine) or silly (stop an ork warboss from carving his name on a moon)

 

[Saviordd1]

HERESY!

The actual story behind 40k is pretty deep and basically can be viewed as the danger of continuous war, in 40k the imperium of man(empire of man) is on the verge of collapse after century upon century of warfare, free will is dead in favor of service to the Emperor(the state), the common people are merely tools, it's protector the space marines that are boarder-line psychotics zealots, basically it can draw parallels to what is currently going on in the world.

I find it very interesting, it has a nice mythos behind it, if the stories were novels instead of handbooks for the table top games, I think it could of rivaled star wars easily.

Anyway I enjoyed the games and can take it seriously.

I'm sorry but I can't take "KILL EVERYTHING RAJHTKJSHKJTS|HKJGFSKJGSGKJHKJ FOR THE EMPOWRERERRE" seriously at all, it has no emotion beyond "KILL FUCKING EVERYTHING" and any other emotion is normally sadness or depression.

It was made to be grim and dark so they could justify all out war for the table top game, people have blown it out of proportion, its a placeholder story to make sure that you don't question everyone dying to much.