Poll: Is 40K serious?

[Yokai]

It depends, I suppose. Dan Abnett makes the ridiculous maximalism almost work, and Eisenhorn and Ravenor both manage to be pretty serious and surprisingly emotional in parts. Same with Gaunt's Ghosts. On the other hand, anything involving orks or written by Sandy Mitchell is probably going to be a bit more lighthearted and embrace the stupid-awesome over-the-top nature of the setting. I think it's more about who's writing it than the setting itself.

Think of Star Wars for a moment--it's about laser-sword-wielding kung fu space wizards, which is ridiculous. Nonetheless, there are humorous and much darker stories that fit into the setting. The same thing can be said for 40k, I think.

You've got to bear in mind just where 40K came from conceptually, I mean it's largely just typical fantasy with Star Wars tech but also with heavy helpings of Dune. However easily the biggest influence on 40K in terms of tone is 2000 AD (especially Nemesis the Warlock but not quite as preachy). Once you spot this and understand it the whole setting makes alot more sense, it's basically an exercise in camp nihilism, taking cheesy sci-fi ala Star Trek/Star Wars/Flash Gordon/Buck Rogers and so on and then making tongue-in-cheek and twisting it to be as dark as possible. Then combining this with a bunch of riffs on all the historical periods and genre styles the developers liked, filtered through artwork styled after HR Giger and Hieronymus Bosch and you end up with 40K. The whole thing is best described as a baroque characture and it take only a slight twist to remove all the satire or to make it a full on parody. And there are alot of works that do these that make it completely straight or make it a comedy with slapstick, puns and pop-culture refrences (although the slapstick involves genocide, the puns revolve around cannibalism and the pop culture is distopian literature).

So in answer to whether I take it seriously or not seriously I have to say both, simply because the setting allows for both interpretations without nessasarily falling apart.

Best response I've seen yet. Well done, sir.

 

[Coreless]

I don't see why people are making such a big deal about the 40k universe, its not anymore serious then Star Wars or Star Trek or any other large fiction universe out there. What is really great about 40k and also with other great fictional universes is the themes that are found throughout that can be related to our life and to the world we live in.

The stories about courage and honor in the face of insurmountable odds is something I can relate with having served in the military and grown up in a military family. The themes of sacrifice and of the toll on hearts and minds of individual soldiers that the endless wars have wrought upon the Imperium and also on the alien races like the Eldar who are a shattered and torn species that are also fighting to survive. There are also themes about madness and what the insanity of the conflicts has done to generals and government leaders who care nothing for the lives of their soldiers and their people. There are parallels to many real life ideas and politics that everyone can understand like xenophobia, totalitarianism, corporatism, artificial selection, religion, classism, moral philosophy, fanaticism and even utilitarianism.

Sure there are many things about the universe that are wacky and ridiculous like the Orks who live only for bloodshed, how is this any different from other universes? Star Trek has Klingons who are the epitiome of the warrior culture where death in conflict is the greatest honor. Star Wars has the Mandalorians who live and base their ideas and philosophy around growth through conflict and expansion.

I don't expect the 40k universe to appeal to everyone, its a grim, dark future that is so beyond anything that we can fathom but only through fiction could we ever experience or understand. There are no winners or happy endings in this universe, every soldier is but one man amongst trillions fighting for the very survival of the human race. For every system that is conquered by chaos there are hundreds that have been left desolate and lifeless in their wake. There are crusades throughout the galaxy that have been going on for centuries where the populations of hundreds of systems have been cut off and have spent multiple generations of families fighting for survival. There are thousands of human civilizations trapped by the warp that consider the Imperium and the Emperor myths because its been over a thousand years since they last heard from the Imperium. This kind of fiction is as epic as it gets, should you take it seriously...no...should you enjoy it for what it is? sure why not....

 

[Varanfan9]

Its a mix which is why I like it. They have both funny and serious stuff. The actual story and mythos is very cool but the characters are less so. I play the Tyranids so I'm more on the serious side but it varies.

 

[CrawlingPastaHellion]

Well, that actually makes it even more ridiculous. ^_^

And that's why I love it. There are people who take it way too seriously, and then there are people who see an entire race of green soccer hooligans who paint their vehicles red because they believe that red ones go faster.

Amen to that.

 

[DracoSuave]

The 40k Universe is absolutely 100% not serious. It simply cannot be taken seriously. As science-fiction goes the entire setting is merely a handwave to have random battles for rnadom factions on random terrai.

I mean... Dark Eldar are so fucking camp it's rediculous, and don't even get me started on Orks.

The thing that truly makes it not-serious is how seriously everyone in-story takes everything. You're engaging a race that pants their vehicles in, literally, 'Go-Faster Red', because it makes it go faster... and you're in a troop of men with shoulders the size of planets, wielding a boltthrower, or perhaps a flamer, against this SERIOUS MENACE THAT MUST BE PURGED FOR THE EMPEROR.

40k's fluff Cannot. Be taken. Seriously.

 

[Zhukov]

Yes, it is serious.

No, I cannot take it seriously.

 

[Zhukov]

Double post. Lah-dee-dah.

 

[DracoSuave]

In contrast, the Warhammer Fantasy universe... actually serious.

 

[SckizoBoy]

No, I can not take it seriously, because it's simply too grimdark.

Not really... I mean come on, it's so colourful, innit?! But if you just think of the setting, and what the game is, you sort of need that grimdark to justify the perpetual war. Still, while the 'present' is a right barrel of laughs for the most part, the ten thousand years' worth of backstory is actually quite serious. A lot of the less well known organisations (e.g. Astropathic Choir, can't wait for the new book due for release next month) have very serious plots attached to them that can be difficult to take lightly.

Having said that:

I think I might like the Cain novels, since I heard they like to point out the absudity of the setting.

Yep, Ciaphas, the perennial trouble-finder!

...[sub][sub][sub]And it looks as though a few are taking this discussion too seriously![/sub][/sub][/sub]

 

[Supertegwyn]

I take it somewhat seriously, but it's all in the name of fun.

 

[bl4ckh4wk64]

While I'm not too ingrained in the whole 40k universe, I do believe this belongs here.

 

[The Austin]

Anyone who answers yes doesn't comprehend the obvious satire.

Anyone who doesn't think Warhammer is satire hasn't seen a Jokaero Weaponsmith.

Spoiler

 

[Bonecrusher]

If you really investigated 40k. You'll realise there's a silly side to it with it's orks and over the top violance, fascism etc. And a serious side with interresting stories, characters, places. It's just so big there's room for both.

best answer in the topic.

there are some silly events in WH40k, but it doesn't make the whole universe "frivolous funfair" or something like that. space marines are not wearing all that bulky armor just for cosplay or for looking like a clown.

 

[conrodot]

the main fluff of most of the factions is actulally pretty awesome and taken seriously though there are some factions ie the orks that are really silly and good for a laugh. what you need to remember is that the games are actulally not all that similar to the book be they codexs or novels (once again besides the orks) so basing your opinon off the games on there own doesnt really do justice to most of 40k

 

[yayforgiveaway]

Dan Abnett
Those who haven't read his books have no right to talk about wh40k universe.

 

[Jared Domenico]

Tell me, how is WH40k a sci-fi? Only because it's set into the future? It's about as sci-fi as "Star Wars".

Because the fluff explores the interactions between technology and society's reaction to it. In 40K's case, what happens to a society when not only does it barely emerge from a technological apocalypse, but also how it manages to continue to exist with a severely fragmented technological and scientific base.

On a bit of a tangent, I love how Imperial society so very well mirrors our modern society's general ignorance regarding technology. We may deride those masses for having no idea how a lightbulb works, but keep in mind the common populace today is similarly ignorant.

Ditto on the jab at the modern IT industry exemplified by the lower levels of the AdMech.

 

[Zantos]

Our Dark Heresy RP wouldn't be nearly as much fun if we couldn't have a good laugh over it. It's not outright comedic, but I think you need to have a decent sense of humour about it to really enjoy it.

 

[ShotgunZombie]

You're not supposed to take Warhammer 40000 seriously. No really, you're not supposed to take Warhammer 40000 seriously. Think about for a second. The Warhammer 40000 universe builds its entire mythology around the concept of extreme darkness. Everything in said universe is designed to be as incredible evil, gory, and horrible as possible and that's what makes it fun.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

What your not taking seriously there is chaos and taking chaos seriously is kind of a backwards concept

Well this is in accurate, I suppose I should have elaborated, there isn't any particular species I can take seriously in the 40K universe. Humans are dumb, Orks are.. well.. Orks, Chaos is silly, Eldar schemes are always uncovered and foiled, and that about does it for the 'main' actors. I am aware of the Tau, the various types of Chaos and the Tyranids and so forth but the whole "must depress must gritty must be gory" attitude sortof breaks it for me, plus the over the top nature of everything leaves it ripe for parody.

I don't mean to impose my opinion here as fact, I'm curious to see how many people are able to suspend disbelief to this extent.

I think your problem is you're using the games as you measure, which are goofy. Read through the Horus Heresy series and you'll see a huge difference.