Poll: Jedi vs anyone else?

[LordOmnit]

you know what, actually in a couple cases, jedi have neutralized miniature black holes (kinda) by doing the same thing. lol. TECHNICALLY, a jedi with a powerful enough connection with the force can control everything in the universe down to the molecular level, but since this hasn't and will never happen, jedi can be defeated. the higher level ones are tough though, very tough to kill.

Black holes are lacking in the normal physics department (that's where molecules matter (hee hee, I made a funny... molecules... matter...)). Anyways, but the whole idea of black holes is that it is an anomoly by itself in normal space which can't be described in the same way as everything else around it and far away from it. It doesn't undergo the same mechanics as anything else, so why should something that can even effect changes on a molecular scale matter to something... that... is just plain unexplainablly anomolistic? (I doubt that's a word, but you should get the meaning.)

A black hole is unstopable. no jedi can move planets. and black holes cant move everything moves around them!

No, black holes move too. Everything, everywhere moves at all times.

 

[Knight Templar]

you know what, actually in a couple cases, jedi have neutralized miniature black holes (kinda) by doing the same thing. lol. TECHNICALLY, a jedi with a powerful enough connection with the force can control everything in the universe down to the molecular level, but since this hasn't and will never happen, jedi can be defeated. the higher level ones are tough though, very tough to kill.

Black holes are lacking in the normal physics department (that's where molecules matter (hee hee, I made a funny... molecules... matter...)). Anyways, but the whole idea of black holes is that it is an anomoly by itself in normal space which can't be described in the same way as everything else around it and far away from it. It doesn't undergo the same mechanics as anything else, so why should something that can even effect changes on a molecular scale matter to something... that... is just plain unexplainablly anomolistic? (I doubt that's a word, but you should get the meaning.)

A black hole is unstopable. no jedi can move planets. and black holes cant move everything moves around them!

No, black holes move too. Everything, everywhere moves at all times.

my point is if a jedi can move do something to a black hole, then i dont get why luke dident just distroy the death star. or why sidious even needed it in the first place. but you'd know more than me about black holes, i dont know much.

RELICATORS

 

[LordOmnit]

my point is if a jedi can move do something to a black hole, then i dont get why luke dident just distroy the death star. or why sidious even needed it in the first place. but you'd know more than me about black holes, i dont know much.

The point is that nobody was powerful enough in the force TO move them/destroy them/(some third option). It is just a theoretical perspective that if they could do the things that they could then they would eventually become powerful enough to move bigger and bigger things.

RELICATORS

Something to do with viruses?

 

[Easykill]

Maybe all black holes are, are really old and powerful dark Jedi, hmm?

 

[LordOmnit]

Ooh! Good point. And white holes are really old and powerful light Jedi?

 

[McMo0^]

my point is if a jedi can move do something to a black hole, then i dont get why luke dident just distroy the death star. or why sidious even needed it in the first place. but you'd know more than me about black holes, i dont know much.

RELICATORS

Firstly luke skywalker wasn't a jedi master, he was a pussy, he defeated darth vader cos vader cared for him.

Secondly such techniques in the force would require a great amount of concentration, and would leave a sith on the floor cryin in pain for a lil while, and then we're talking ancient sith, not what vader and sidious pretended to be.

I suppose the worst part of this topic is people are postin so stupid answers. Maybe meant to be funny, but failing. Batman? Batman you say? that'd be like throwing feckin inspector gadget against the claw without polly. Batman is a man of gadgets and strong training. A jedi can lift batman up and leave him paralysed with the mind. Some people have mentioned some spectacularly destructive beings that clearly would kill a jedi.

Someone said something about yoda mentioning the dark side wasn't stronger, yet he ran crying. If the most respected Jedi walked around and said "yes, the dark side is easier to learn. Oh its damn powerful, i wouldn't take on a proper sith, those guys scare the shit out of me" then theres gonna be few people rootin for the Jedi.

Its been mentioned that the extremely powerful jedi could manipulate molicules. It was still a difficult process, and could take days to perform.

But seriously don't just go throwing someone random people into the mix if you don't know what you're talking about. Superman isn't powered by light. He doesn't plug a desk lamp in at night to keep the batteries charged. He's powered by the Sun. Not any random star, the Sun. As such in our solar system, he's brick. If he spends too much time away, he starts to lose his abilites, so its not always a good idea for him to feck off for a while.

Jedi are trained to extreme cold and extreme heat. So if iceman wandered in, he'd be dead before he tried to crack a joke. Same goes for spidey. Even the reborn, beefed up spidey. He could be pinned and sliced.

Would a saber cut through adamantium? i mean you get it hot enough it liquifies so chances are yes. Wolverines healing factor is untested, but if he's got no skeleton, he ain't gonna do alot.

Deadpool is different, he completely regenerates. Take off his arm, woo a new arm. As for his head... dunno. He'd be an arse to take down if he had his teleportation belt, but then precognition would mean a jedi could launch him at the wall just after he ports back in.

You standard hero couldn't take him out. Charles Xavier probably could. He's the true master of the mind trick...

The Pheonix could, without a problem.

The hulk has proven countless times that he is near indistructable, but i get the feeling when Dr Banner hulks out, he's very prone to the old mind trick.

Surely the best way to wrap this up would be for someone to make a suggestion of who could beat a true Jedi master, why, and then give someone a chance to counter it. If they can't, then yes that person could kill a jedi. But huge lists filled with Almighty Monsters of pure doom and then people like spidey just insights me to ignore the list.

 

[tiredinnuendo]

I think people list stuff like Spidey because, as many abilities as a Jedi might have, they tend to not be very good with them unless they also have the power of poetic license on their side. It's generally accepted that outside a character's given universe (in a crossover duel, as a for instance), you lose the auto-win power that comes with being the Good Guy.

Could Spidey beat a Jedi? Maybe. I'd call that an even toss up. A Jedi could grab him or something, maybe, but generally they basically have to stand there and do nothing but hold their opponent in place. And unless they can completely hold him in place, I suppose he could fire a web at their eye or something.

It's a generally accepted rule that Batman wins any fight if he has at least 30 minutes to prepare. ANY fight.

Iceman would destroy a Jedi. He creates absolute zero at whim. That's where molecules stop moving. He could expand a wall of ice around himself until it encompassed him, the room, the Jedi, and everything else if so inclined. Or he could just freeze all the blood in their body by looking at them. That works too.

Hulk is highly resistant to psychic manipulation. FYI.

I still say the field of "a Jedi" is too broad. Which Jedi? Some people seem to be treating this like we need to come up with a being that can defeat a Jedi that commands unlimited telekinetic, telepathic, and psychic abilities who also happens to be a complete master of the lightsabre and who can do all these things at once without getting tired. But no Jedi will EVER BE ABLE TO DO ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

What can Jedi do? Move some stuff if they have some time to squint at it first, have vague dreams about possible futures, and block projectiles that move slowly enough for my eyes to follow. That's the movie Jedi. Almost everything else takes place in the outer tiers of cannon.

Oh, and while we're making suggestions, Muad'Dib would slaughter a Jedi.

- J

 

[LordOmnit]

I still say the field of "a Jedi" is too broad. Which Jedi?

Asking this shows that you haven't read the first post, which is generally considered good form if you come in after a while and don't want to bother reading the whole discussion. Although this, in itself, is rather odd considering that you were like the 8th person to reply.
We are (or should be) talking about a Jedi master (as per the first post). Of course a lesser Jedi is going to be taken out. I'm pretty sure that wasn't anywhere near as rare as a master being offed. But then again even 'master' is pretty wide ranging from the movies where one could move a fairly large pillar with difficulty to the KOTOR games where they kept entire fleets of warships made of scrap and shit together and were still able to fight pretty well.
If we are talking about the latter, then we are looking at a significantly smaller list, but in and of itself, some of the things created are just completely unreasonably outrageous (Absolute zero? At a whim? You've got to be joking. If that were the case then absolutely nothing could defeat him, not even Dr. Who if it was a stand-off with a countdown. It may be his power, but come on...).

 

[Knight Templar]

my point is if a jedi can move do something to a black hole, then i dont get why luke dident just distroy the death star. or why sidious even needed it in the first place. but you'd know more than me about black holes, i dont know much.

The point is that nobody was powerful enough in the force TO move them/destroy them/(some third option). It is just a theoretical perspective that if they could do the things that they could then they would eventually become powerful enough to move bigger and bigger things.

RELICATORS

Something to do with viruses?

that would kill mabey 1000 if your lucky before it stops working and they rebulid. but i dident know jedi were computer programers

 

[tiredinnuendo]

Asking this shows that you haven't read the first post, which is generally considered good form if you come in after a while and don't want to bother reading the whole discussion. Although this, in itself, is rather odd considering that you were like the 8th person to reply.

I think you'll find that I did, in fact, read the first post.

I stick to my question. Which Jedi master?

That Jedi in Episode 2 that jumped up onto that platform and got gunned down unceremoniously by Jango Fett? He was a Jedi master. Where were his mad blocking and/or foresight skills? Answer: He sucked with a lightsabre.

Jedi master doesn't mean "best at everything". It doesn't even mean "best at one thing". As established, Yoda's pretty much the most powerful Jedi we have to point to, and he can do.... what, exactly? Catch a beam that's falling? Be vaguely unsure about the future? Lose to the emperor and then spend the rest of his life trapped on a swamp planet in fear of his life insisting that the Light Side is stronger?

I read the threads I post in, thanks.

If we are talking about the latter, then we are looking at a significantly smaller list, but in and of itself, some of the things created are just completely unreasonably outrageous (Absolute zero? At a whim? You've got to be joking. If that were the case then absolutely nothing could defeat him, not even Dr. Who if it was a stand-off with a countdown. It may be his power, but come on...).

I didn't say it was *fair*, but since the guy above me claimed Iceman would lose, I kinda had to throw that in there. In fact, every name I threw into my post was a response to the guy above me. Except Muad-Dib. He's mine.

- J

 

[LordOmnit]

I think you'll find that I did, in fact, read the first post.

I'm pretty sure that I implied that when I noted your being the 8th poster.

I didn't say it was *fair*, but since the guy above me claimed Iceman would lose, I kinda had to throw that in there.

Neither did I, but I think we have to keep these things within reason most of the time. I mean, something like that can be dismissed because: A) if he can do that, then of course he's going to win; B) that is like saying you pit person (x) against any being in any kind of existence ever. Their universes are different in that the Star Wars universe is naturally limited some, but there are other universes that don't limit themselves to reason at all and don't actually explain the things very well. With or without the midichlorian malarkey the Force wasn't some all-powerful and completely undeniable thing, but was actually described as a life-force and (blah-de blah blah blah...). I'd hazard that Iceman just has the power (period).

 

[Foss]

Jedi vs Superman.

He's physically strong enough to knock a planet out of orbit, and he's so fast he can reverse time. Apparantly.

You can shoot him in the friggin eye, though.

I don't see how a Jedi could deal with that.

 

[tiredinnuendo]

I think you'll find that I did, in fact, read the first post.

I'm pretty sure that I implied that when I noted your being the 8th poster.

Actually, I'm pretty sure

Asking this shows that you haven't read the first post, which is generally considered good form if you come in after a while and don't want to bother reading the whole discussion.

"implies" that I haven't read it. But backpeddling is cool too. Apology accepted.

- J

 

[LordOmnit]

"implies" that I haven't read it. But backpeddling is cool too. Apology accepted.

Quote the whole thing if you are going to say something (or leave an ellipse so we know to look back if we didn't know the whole thing part). That's like quoting someone as saying "I hate you," when they said, "I hate your idea, but the execution is done well."
It was the second sentence there that was the implication if you missed that.

 

[tiredinnuendo]

Yeah.... I'm not buying it. You don't say:

Asking this shows that you haven't read the first post, which is generally considered good form if you come in after a while and don't want to bother reading the whole discussion. Although this, in itself, is rather odd considering that you were like the 8th person to reply.

If what you're trying to "imply" is "You clearly read the first post." If that's what you meant, then this whole chunk of text you wrote is useless.

I asked a legitimate question. Jedi Masters have different levels of power. Name one instead of saying a generic "Jedi". Your response was, "[flame flame flame] We're talking about a Jedi Master! [something pointless about how Iceman is too powerful]"

At a minimum, this shows that perhaps I was not clear enough. If so, sorry. But if you can tell me, to my face, that you didn't intend to come across as inflammatory in lieu of refuting any of my points, clarity is something we both need to work on.

- J

 

[LordOmnit]

If what you're trying to "imply" is "You clearly read the first post." If that's what you meant, then this whole chunk of text you wrote is useless.

Sorry if I'm wordy.

"[flame flame flame] We're talking about a Jedi Master! [something pointless about how Iceman is too powerful]"

Using "flame flame flame" is overstating it by quite a bit.
[EDIT]In no uncertain terms might I add.[/EDIT]

 

[TSED]

First, to people claiming that jedi can telekinetically hold people and then slice them open: you NEED, absolutely NEED, to provide proof of this in a MOVIE.

my point is if a jedi can move do something to a black hole, then i dont get why luke dident just distroy the death star. or why sidious even needed it in the first place. but you'd know more than me about black holes, i dont know much.

RELICATORS

Firstly luke skywalker wasn't a jedi master, he was a pussy, he defeated darth vader cos vader cared for him.

Later, he's capable of destroying planets with the force. But that's besides the point, he's still Corporal Wuss.

But seriously don't just go throwing someone random people into the mix if you don't know what you're talking about. Superman isn't powered by light. He doesn't plug a desk lamp in at night to keep the batteries charged. He's powered by the Sun. Not any random star, the Sun. As such in our solar system, he's brick. If he spends too much time away, he starts to lose his abilites, so its not always a good idea for him to feck off for a while.

No, any yellow star. There's a *lot* of those.

Jedi are trained to extreme cold and extreme heat. So if iceman wandered in, he'd be dead before he tried to crack a joke. Same goes for spidey. Even the reborn, beefed up spidey. He could be pinned and sliced.

Iceman turns the Jedi into a block of absolute zero by thinking about it. That isn't 'extreme cold'. That's 'instant death for anything'. Period.

Spiderman? He's faster than Jedi. His spider sense is magical in nature; he's got better precog than a jedi, faster than them, and strong enough to accidentally break their spines by stomping on their foot. Webshooters just cinch the deal, and this is before we get into stuff like Iron Man's costume or innate webs or poison stingers.

Would a saber cut through adamantium? i mean you get it hot enough it liquifies so chances are yes. Wolverines healing factor is untested, but if he's got no skeleton, he ain't gonna do alot.

It might, it might not. Even if it didn't, there are parts in his neck where the adamantium hasn't full encased his spine - if it did, his neck and spine wouldn't be capable of movement. On the other hand, Wolverine has apparently killed the Angel of Death or something and is immune to dying. Yawn. I hate Marvel writers, sometimes.

Deadpool is different, he completely regenerates. Take off his arm, woo a new arm. As for his head... dunno. He'd be an arse to take down if he had his teleportation belt, but then precognition would mean a jedi could launch him at the wall just after he ports back in.

The teleportation only could take him to Cable. People are interpreting his power incorrectly from Ultimate Alliance or something, I think. That being said, Deadpool has completely regenerated from being a half-digested puddle of enzymes before. There's no way a Jedi can kill him. Absolutely no way.

You standard hero couldn't take him out. Charles Xavier probably could. He's the true master of the mind trick...

Define standard hero?

The Pheonix could, without a problem.

"Hey, there's a planet. I AM GONNA SPLODE IT."

The hulk has proven countless times that he is near indistructable, but i get the feeling when Dr Banner hulks out, he's very prone to the old mind trick.

Ahh, but Hulk himself isn't going to unHulk. Ever. See 'World War Hulk'.

Surely the best way to wrap this up would be for someone to make a suggestion of who could beat a true Jedi master, why, and then give someone a chance to counter it. If they can't, then yes that person could kill a jedi. But huge lists filled with Almighty Monsters of pure doom and then people like spidey just insights me to ignore the list.

Some one said Godzilla couldn't kill a jedi. They're ignoring that Godzilla's RADIATION will kill Tokyo if he takes a stroll through it.

You obviously don't know how cheesy Spiderman is. He's very, very, very powerful.

And I submit: 616 Galactus. Some one show me how a Jedi would beat 616 Galactus.

 

[tiredinnuendo]

Using "flame flame flame" is overstating it by quite a bit.
[EDIT]In no uncertain terms might I add.[/EDIT]

Hmm... you're clearly in the right. The post I took issue with was obviously highly relevant, made no hints about me being ill-informed, addressed several of my points in valid ways, and was ultimately respectful.

My bad.

- J

 

[LordOmnit]

Sorry for taking your several times of ASKING WHICH JEDI (implying you didn't know that it was said master) and just jumping off without even thinking about the various possibilities straight away and soundly bitching about it.
Someone mentioned before about the KOTOR timeline being pretty darn strong, the book ones being VERY strong, and the movie ones being relatively weaker, so if you had been reading, then you could have just taken that into account and made note for each level (presumably Spiderman couldn't beat a Sith Lord capable of keeping a fleet of warships made of loose bits of scrap together, but Spiderman could beat the pants, underwear, and unmentionable parts off of Luke (at least I think so)).
So yeah, I was totally flaming none the less.