Poll: Lara and the Tomb raider controversy

[chadachada123]

They lost family members (mostly female). They didn't have the trauma directly happen to them on screen so they don't count.

Lynch is already a 'badass'. So he doesn't count either.

They have to go from zero to hero while suffering physical pain and abuse as the reason.

There is no game which beats the crap out of a wussy male character to explain him being a badass.

...Losing a family member doesn't count as trauma? Having your family murdered right in front of you doesn't count as trauma?

I would ask if you were retarded, but I feel like you're just being really dense here. You're just moving back the goal posts whenever we find characters that fit your criteria.

The average portrayal is that physical torture doesn't compare to the death of your family. It's why the Punisher is a badass: physical pain means jack-all since he lost his entire family. He has *nothing left to lose.* Lara still has much to lose (presumably), even after being tortured and stuff. She hasn't lost all emotion (except anger) yet like Kratos or the Punisher or Red Harlow from Red Dead Revolver.

If anything, I'd say that those male characters lost quite a bit more than Lara is losing here. If any fathers are reading this, tell me, would you take physical torture (even rape) over the murder of your wife and kids?

Even if, for the sake of argument, Lara is the first character ever to be physically tortured as an explanation for her new self, why exactly is this a bad thing? Regardless of the developer's (stupid) words, most male characters aren't going to play her to protect her, they're going to play her so that we CAN start out as a weakling that develops into a badass. That it's a female that turns into a badass is even better.

 

[anthony87]

snip

Why is a tough athletic adventurous woman unrealistic?

As a woman I found her one of the few game characters I could relate to as a teenager. So yeah I feel like they are taking that character away from me like they did with Samus and turning her into some sort of damsel in distress proxy that needs the male player to protect her.

What the hell even is this criticism?

I've seen it thrown around so much in regards to this game and it makes no fucking sense.

You don't actively appear in the game and save her, you control her character who saves herself. If this is a criticism, then every game character ever has to be saved by the player.

That's what the dev said at e3... that male players would want to protect her. Like she can't even look after herself or something.

Uh....you mean like every single player character in every video game ever?

 

[chadachada123]

snip

WHOA THERE. Spoiler alert, brah! The Red Dead Redemption one is pretty big. Luckily, I've already beaten it, but don't spoil it for those that haven't. It's such a fantastic game, after all.

It's funny, though, because I myself mentioned Red from the original Red Dead Revolver as one such tortured character. Someone who, at the beginning of the game,

Spoiler

loses his mother and father to a greedy gold mining dick.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Yeah but they are saying that she must have been traumatised to possibly be badass because a woman can't be badass. In the examples you give the characters are already considered badass so it doesn't count.

None of you can come up with an example that is the same.

And I'm going by what the dev said with the 'protect her' thing so it's straight from the horses mouth as it were.

The only reason I care so much is because Lara is one of my favorite characters and I'm scared they are going to ruin her like Samus. I;m probably going to buy the game but I'm just hoping they don't portray her as a useless wuss.

 

[Azure Knight-Zeo]

If she ends up getting stronger as the game goes on, no. If she's constently getting abused, beaten, and depicted as "weak" through out the game untill the end credits, maybe.

 

[anthony87]

snip

WHOA THERE. Spoiler alert, brah! The Red Dead Redemption one is pretty big. Luckily, I've already beaten it, but don't spoil it for those that haven't. It's such a fantastic game, after all.

It's funny, though, because I myself mentioned Red from the original Red Dead Revolver as one such tortured character. Someone who, at the beginning of the game,

Spoiler

loses his mother and father to a greedy gold mining dick.

Sorry about that, never even thought about the spoilers.

And yea, Butterfly is really reaching here. Especially with the Lynch one you posted. That looks a million times more traumatic than anything we saw in the Tomb Raider trailers.

I know right? I mean all those stanly blade cuts....I seriously can't imagine how much that'd hurt. I'd gladly take being felt up to having that happening to me anyday.

But yeah, I guess it's not as bad as what happens to Lara in the trailer because........?

 

[anthony87]

Yeah but they are saying that she must have been traumatised to possibly be badass because a woman can't be badass. In the examples you give the characters are already considered badass so it doesn't count.

None of you can come up with an example that is the same.

So you want an origin story where Lara is already an established badass without having to go through some tough times and overcome obstacles?

Got it.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

If she ends up getting stronger as the game goes on, no. If she's constently getting abused, beaten, and depicted as "weak" through out the game untill the end credits, maybe.

When is she depicted as weak? She beats everyone in the trailers.

If you mean she isn't portrayed as a Mary Sue who can just magic her way out of shitty situations by her being so perfect. Then yea, she's no longer that.

Like most male characters you mean? What's wrong with letting us girls have a little power fantasy. You guys get to be Batman etc.

 

[anthony87]

If she ends up getting stronger as the game goes on, no. If she's constently getting abused, beaten, and depicted as "weak" through out the game untill the end credits, maybe.

When is she depicted as weak? She beats everyone in the trailers.

If you mean she isn't portrayed as a Mary Sue who can just magic her way out of shitty situations by her being so perfect. Then yea, she's no longer that.

Like most male characters you mean? What's wrong with letting us girls have a little power fantasy. You guys get to be Batman etc.

Is that really your line of thinking?

"Batman is a man so there should be a female one too because EQUALITY!"

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

If she ends up getting stronger as the game goes on, no. If she's constently getting abused, beaten, and depicted as "weak" through out the game untill the end credits, maybe.

When is she depicted as weak? She beats everyone in the trailers.

If you mean she isn't portrayed as a Mary Sue who can just magic her way out of shitty situations by her being so perfect. Then yea, she's no longer that.

Like most male characters you mean? What's wrong with letting us girls have a little power fantasy. You guys get to be Batman etc.

Is that really your line of thinking?

"Batman is a man so there should be a female one too because EQUALITY!"

Well Batman is a Mary Sure but no one cares because he's a guy...

I collect Batman comics so I certainly don't have anything against him. But he is definitely a Mary Sue most of the time.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

If she ends up getting stronger as the game goes on, no. If she's constently getting abused, beaten, and depicted as "weak" through out the game untill the end credits, maybe.

When is she depicted as weak? She beats everyone in the trailers.

If you mean she isn't portrayed as a Mary Sue who can just magic her way out of shitty situations by her being so perfect. Then yea, she's no longer that.

Like most male characters you mean? What's wrong with letting us girls have a little power fantasy. You guys get to be Batman etc.

Move away from one sinking argument to another ay?

No, not like most male character ON THEIR ORIGINS STORY!

Heck, we even saw agent 47 getting a bit roughed up in that recent trailer everyone had a hissy fit about.

Icnase you haven't notice, people have been trying to move away from the Mary Sue style protagonist lately because it's just plain boring. If there's no real threat to the character then what's the point in playing?

Even powertrips like Kratos aren't above getting punched and bloodied. They still win, because they're the protag, but you can't really accuse modern male characters of being Mary Sues. Even if they don't often get beaten, they have things wrong with them. Be it their personality, addictions, their past whatever.

Tragic heroes are more widely loved. Stop reaching.

I'm not I'm worried they are going to wreck a cool character and make her into some sort of Princess Peach.

snip

Lara lost her parents too remember.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

If she ends up getting stronger as the game goes on, no. If she's constently getting abused, beaten, and depicted as "weak" through out the game untill the end credits, maybe.

When is she depicted as weak? She beats everyone in the trailers.

If you mean she isn't portrayed as a Mary Sue who can just magic her way out of shitty situations by her being so perfect. Then yea, she's no longer that.

Like most male characters you mean? What's wrong with letting us girls have a little power fantasy. You guys get to be Batman etc.

Is that really your line of thinking?

"Batman is a man so there should be a female one too because EQUALITY!"

Well Batman is a Mary Sure but no one cares because he's a guy...

I collect Batman comics so I certainly don't have anything against him. But he is definitely a Mary Sue most of the time.

Batman lost his parents, developed a psychological compulsion to save everyone and became so obsessed with this he sacrificed his personal life and relationships so he could peruse his ambition with the determination of a mad dog and he refuses to do the things required to truly achieve his goal and as a result he's condemned to continue his hopeless endeavour for the rest of his life, never being able to complete the task he's set himself.

Yea, total Mary Sue.

Lara's original origin story wasn't that different yet everyone has a problem with her being tough.