Poll: Lawful-Good vs Chaotic Good: Which is better?

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Sean Steele

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malestrithe said:
Sean Steele said:
True Neutral, I'm happy to be at the party no matter whats going down.

(Or rather I like my characters motivations to be a bit more complex and personal then, I'm good, and I follow the law, or I'm bad, and I don't care about the law.For me its like, here DM here is an elaborate back story about how what really motivates my character is severe daddy issues brought on by early child hood abandonment, if you would please completely ignore that so, me the paladin and the necromancer can go gank that basilisk that would be lovely.)
What you described is not True Neutral. What you have is Neutral Evil. True Neutral is balance above everything else. Neutral Evil is whatever works as long as I get ahead.
No it isn't, my character was pretty much doing a job a farmer who just farms is not neutral evil, an over obsession with some cosmic balance is not neutrality you know how neutrality feels to those ideas? Its neutral to it.
 

Mrsoupcup

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Sean Steele said:
malestrithe said:
Sean Steele said:
True Neutral, I'm happy to be at the party no matter whats going down.

(Or rather I like my characters motivations to be a bit more complex and personal then, I'm good, and I follow the law, or I'm bad, and I don't care about the law.For me its like, here DM here is an elaborate back story about how what really motivates my character is severe daddy issues brought on by early child hood abandonment, if you would please completely ignore that so, me the paladin and the necromancer can go gank that basilisk that would be lovely.)
What you described is not True Neutral. What you have is Neutral Evil. True Neutral is balance above everything else. Neutral Evil is whatever works as long as I get ahead.
No it isn't, my character was pretty much doing a job a farmer who just farms is not neutral evil, an over obsession with some cosmic balance is not neutrality you know how neutrality feels to those ideas? Its neutral to it.
True neutral is basically an unaware stonner.

If you're neutral and care about balance, then neutral good.
If you're neutral and just try to get ahead without caring then neutral evil.
If you just don't care, lol whatever happens then true neutral.
 

malestrithe

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Sean Steele said:
malestrithe said:
Sean Steele said:
True Neutral, I'm happy to be at the party no matter whats going down.

(Or rather I like my characters motivations to be a bit more complex and personal then, I'm good, and I follow the law, or I'm bad, and I don't care about the law.For me its like, here DM here is an elaborate back story about how what really motivates my character is severe daddy issues brought on by early child hood abandonment, if you would please completely ignore that so, me the paladin and the necromancer can go gank that basilisk that would be lovely.)
What you described is not True Neutral. What you have is Neutral Evil. True Neutral is balance above everything else. Neutral Evil is whatever works as long as I get ahead.
No it isn't, my character was pretty much doing a job a farmer who just farms is not neutral evil, an over obsession with some cosmic balance is not neutrality you know how neutrality feels to those ideas? Its neutral to it.

Simply doing a job is not true neutral. That's Lawful Neutral. The Paladin in the group prevents you from being evil of any sort. You did not question what you were doing. you just hunkered down and did what you were told. For the record, True Neutral all about balance. They obsess over that stuff a lot more than you think and do not remain neutral about those things? Did you ever stop to fight your allies when the monsters had the disadvantage. Did you make sure equal numbers of dead occur on both sides?
 

malestrithe

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Patrick_and_the_ricks said:
True neutral is basically an unaware stonner.

If you're neutral and care about balance, then neutral good.
If you're neutral and just try to get ahead without caring then neutral evil.
If you just don't care, lol whatever happens then true neutral.
According to what setting? In AD&D, True Neutral is about balance in everything, law and order, good and evil. It is not the selfish alignment.
 

Mrsoupcup

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malestrithe said:
Patrick_and_the_ricks said:
True neutral is basically an unaware stonner.

If you're neutral and care about balance, then neutral good.
If you're neutral and just try to get ahead without caring then neutral evil.
If you just don't care, lol whatever happens then true neutral.
According to what setting? In AD&D, True Neutral is about balance in everything, law and order, good and evil. It is not the selfish alignment.
Ha sorry. Was thinking about this character I made in Dark Souls based off The Dude.

Actually have never played D&D...
I guess my nerd membership card is going to be revoked. >.<
 

Reaper195

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None, as Chaotic Evil will fuck up your shit any day of the week. And then actually fuck your shit.
 

mrhappy1489

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For where I stand, Chaotic Good is probably the best choice and in all honesty the only good. Let me explain, chaotic good, is simply doing what you justify as good based on your own moral compass, lawful good is basically following a predisposed set of rules some man dictated as Good. Now we obviously see the problem here, that just because Joe King deems something good doesn't make it so and good and evil change all the time and a set of rules is silly unless they are constantly updated. I mean lets use this as an example, your King has gone insane, you are his sworn protector and your job is to obey him and protect him, but you are also asked to protect the innocent and help the weak. Your king asks you to kill the innocent because he believes they are plotting against him and if you obey him your breaking one rule and thus being evil by obeying his other command and being lawfully good. A chaotic person would either see the evil in the command and leave the kings service or do the realm some good and kill the king. Lawful good restricts what one can do and prevents you from using your conscience to decide, thus making it the inferior choice.
 

Sean Steele

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mrhappy1489 said:
For where I stand, Chaotic Good is probably the best choice and in all honesty the only good. Let me explain, chaotic good, is simply doing what you justify as good based on your own moral compass, lawful good is basically following a predisposed set of rules some man dictated as Good. Now we obviously see the problem here, that just because Joe King deems something good doesn't make it so and good and evil change all the time and a set of rules is silly unless they are constantly updated. I mean lets use this as an example, your King has gone insane, you are his sworn protector and your job is to obey him and protect him, but you are also asked to protect the innocent and help the weak. Your king asks you to kill the innocent because he believes they are plotting against him and if you obey him your breaking one rule and thus being evil by obeying his other command and being lawfully good. A chaotic person would either see the evil in the command and leave the kings service or do the realm some good and kill the king. Lawful good restricts what one can do and prevents you from using your conscience to decide, thus making it the inferior choice.
Thats Neutral Good your describing as Chaotic Good Chaotic characters are already bent against the authority figures, so a Chaotic Good character might end up beefing with a good aligned king even if he is a good king just cause the Chaotic Good character dosn't like his zoning law.
 

Mikeyfell

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Lets look at some examples of Chaotic good characters.

Batman.
Han Solo.

I think we have a winner.
 

FalloutJack

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Lawful Good is always poorly portrayed in these things. It should be what you do what's right because it IS right, not because it's what's expected. Moral compass to guide the law. It is not wrong to harm an outright scoundrel to gain information. He's a scoundrel! The law beats them up for information in the name of justice all the time! So, when a GM pulls out that strict crap like some of them do for straight paladins (redundant statement), it's a grown and a half!

Chaotic all the way.
 

Sion_Barzahd

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I am alway chaotic. It is just nice to not have laws to shackle you. Good isn't really my thing either to be honest.

Lawful good can be a great one to role play but the OP doesn't see all its potential i don't think. Lawful Good means you obey a set of strict laws, this isn't always the king's law. It could be the law of the church or anything else. In fact they would oppose a king asking them to slaughter a village not only because its evil but unlawful even if the king decreed it.
 

userwhoquitthesite

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ZexionSephiroth said:
Chaotic Good doesn't have to put up with the king's S*** when the king decides he wants to slaughter a village. They can just go, "Hey, what kind of jerk are you?", and promptly punch him in the face. And if you happened to like that village, that is a really refreshing feeling.

Lawful Good on the other hand, has to hold back
Only if the Lawful Good FOLLOWS that king... I know many a Paladin who declared holy judgement on the law of the land for disobeying the law of god. So, if you go lawful good, go for the religious zealot, that way you can justify any bigotry you have or slaughter your character has to perform as service to their god.

that village was probably full of witches
 

userwhoquitthesite

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malestrithe said:
According to what setting? In AD&D, True Neutral is about balance in everything, law and order, good and evil. It is not the selfish alignment.
and AD&D is ancient. Move on, dude.
 

RandV80

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Chaotic Good makes for a more interesting character but on a society wide level, especially since it's usually medieval societies you're talking about with these alignments, Lawful Good is better. The Chaotic Good character may be well meaning but to have a prosperous medieval society that can stand up to the forces of chaos and corruption the more organized nature of Lawful Good is far more effective.

Like in Game of Thrones, people always point out Ned as being an idiot (which he is). But what they overlook is if he backed the younger Renly for King because he was a 'better fit', what sort of precedence does that set for future successions for either the thrown or other greater/lesser houses? In a society where matters of succession can quickly lead to bloody civil war, it's best to have rules that are very clear cut and definitive. In this specific case the younger son may be a better fit than the elder, but in the bigger picture it's best to stick to the rules and give the crown to the elder. Your society will suffer far more chaos and destruction if you start allowing people to inherit based on who's the 'better fit', as that gets very grey and people will have different opinions on who's better. Who came out of their momma's womb first on the other hand can't really be argued.

I'd imagine a lot of the above is what goes into Ned Stark's decision making. But since people are talking about all sorts of cool Chaotic Good characters and I haven't seen much mentioned for Lawful Good, I'll nominate Roland of Gilead.

...Which could cause problems since some may claim him for Chaotic Good, but I'd disagree and argue that it was more the world he lived in that was entirely chaotic. In his heart Roland believed in the old order of the Gunslingers, who were distinctly Lawful Good.
 

Basement Cat

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HELLO, EVERYBODY!!! I've been lurking for years but just joined up and THIS IS MY FIRST POST!!!

You don't have to be gentle with me. Sometimes I like it rough.

*ahem* On to the topic...

Lawful Good.

It's funny how people have no trouble grokking how Lawful Evil works but the moment Lawful Good comes to mind they compartmentalize L.G.'ness as prudish, narrow minded, and stupid. Many folks here are making a common mistake by viewing Lawful Good solely in a medieval "Knight-with-tunnel-vision-In Shining Armor" manner.

If you check the description of Lawful Good in D&D 3.5 it points out specifically that a Lawful Good character's GOODNESS balances the Lawfulness so that a L.G. character isn't automatically trapped by 'ethical bureaucratic paperwork' whenever a moral decision must be made.

The key to understanding the underlying strength of a L.G. character's lawfulness is recognizing that they find value in the laws i.e. "Murder is illegal because it's WRONG to brain newborn babies", not because a law should be followed simply BECAUSE it's THE LAW, i.e. "Chop that starving urchin's hand off for stealing a crumb of bread!!!". That sort of severe reaction is a Lawful Neutral's BLACK or WHITE response--the law is the law, morals have no place involved. A Lawful Good character recognizes that while theft is illegal, there can be mitigating factors based not just on compassion but--dare I say it--out of common sense that should be considered.

THIS is why a paladin is REQUIRED to have a high WISDOM!

Try viewing Lawful Good from the perspective of, say, the JEDI CODE.

The Jedi Code sets down simple but incredibly encompassing rules: "There is no emotion, there is peace", for example.

To an outsider such a rule seems insanely suffocating, even hokey. But to the Jedi who understand that the UNDERLYING REASON for the rule is that failure to abide by it can result in a fall to the dark side the Rule of Peace is not only logical but an ideal that is to be strived for personally achieving.

In the Star Wars books (particularly The Revenge of the Sith) Obi Wan Kenobi was a by-the-book Jedi, but he was hardly Lawful Stupid. It was Obi Wan's wisdom that guided him on what was right and wrong and how to deal with conflicting goals. Moreover it was a quality of wisdom that you can see develop from the youthful and simplistic tunnel vision of right and wrong to a deeper and more mature encompassing perspective. He goes from "Why do I get the feeling we're picking up another pathetic life form?" to "You don't want to sell me death sticks, you want to go home and rethink your life." to "Then I will do what I must."

Put a paladin into action with the mindset of him operating as a Jedi Master in plate mail and the fog of "Lawful Stupidity" clears up really fast.

On the other hand Qui Gon Jinn was definitely Chaotic Good.
 

ecoho

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chaotic good would be the one with the most leway as you never know when your DMs going to use a known murderer as a contact for your quest and lets just say killing the quest giver is bad form.
 

mrhappy1489

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Sean Steele said:
mrhappy1489 said:
For where I stand, Chaotic Good is probably the best choice and in all honesty the only good. Let me explain, chaotic good, is simply doing what you justify as good based on your own moral compass, lawful good is basically following a predisposed set of rules some man dictated as Good. Now we obviously see the problem here, that just because Joe King deems something good doesn't make it so and good and evil change all the time and a set of rules is silly unless they are constantly updated. I mean lets use this as an example, your King has gone insane, you are his sworn protector and your job is to obey him and protect him, but you are also asked to protect the innocent and help the weak. Your king asks you to kill the innocent because he believes they are plotting against him and if you obey him your breaking one rule and thus being evil by obeying his other command and being lawfully good. A chaotic person would either see the evil in the command and leave the kings service or do the realm some good and kill the king. Lawful good restricts what one can do and prevents you from using your conscience to decide, thus making it the inferior choice.
Thats Neutral Good your describing as Chaotic Good Chaotic characters are already bent against the authority figures, so a Chaotic Good character might end up beefing with a good aligned king even if he is a good king just cause the Chaotic Good character dosn't like his zoning law.
True enough, but chaotic good is still pretty good by comparison to old mate the Lawful Good. I mean there would have to be a justification for him to dislike the zoning laws imposed by the king, though everything I was saying was more or less based off A song of Ice and Fire and I don't think zoning laws would be high on the lists of priorities.