Poll: Obama Shutting Down Guantanamo Bay. Good or Bad?

[kewlrabbit]

I always hated the argument that they're not American Citizens so they shouldn't have the same rights. They're still fucking Human beings and should be treated as such.

 

[Johnnyallstar]

Depends on how you look at it...

Bad idea... we're letting enemy combatants to be moved to places where they don't belong and giving them Constitutional rights as if they were U.S. born citizens. Honestly, they're not American citizens so the Constitution doesn't cover them.

so then by your definition. I have the right then to kill any tourist who I deem annoying and will be saved because "the constitution doesn't cover them?"

unless im missing something, thats kinda wrong?

Before you comment on the Constitution please read it, it may help alot.

Depends on how you look at it...

Bad idea... we're letting enemy combatants to be moved to places where they don't belong and giving them Constitutional rights as if they were U.S. born citizens. Honestly, they're not American citizens so the Constitution doesn't cover them.

Good... Well, they're moving them into jails with American criminals... many of whom will remember 9/11 better than most people and will save us money by killing the newly moved in people and sparing our beloved government the disgrace of dirtying it's hands. Chow line anyone?

wow your pretty much a sum of everything that is wrong with america, just because there not U.S. citizens doesn't mean they aren't human beings. they deserve a fair trial.

Better, but I do have to say, when we stretch things, where do we end up having to draw the line? If we are to give them "fair trial" as you say, does that mean we have to go get other Arab nationalities to sit in as jurors because that is the only way to have a "trial by peers" if they refuse to believe that any American is truly their peer? Also, I never denied that they aren't human beings, so don't put words in my mouth, that's an insult to anyone reading this.

 

[thefrizzlefry]

Good. Closing the place down will improve our relationship with Cuba.
However, this is really just a move to cover the fact that Obama isn't really doing anything. So they closed gitmo down. Great. What's stopping them from violating their constitutional rights when they're in prison on U.S. soil?

 

[Jenkins]

you forget tho that many of the people in gitmo are suspects, and just that, only a small few of the people who are in gitmo are actually considered "dangerous"

eh, only time will tell what will happen

 

[Rednog]

To everyone who says they will get a fair trial, they won't. The US criminal system lets very few cases go to court, most are settled out of court with plea bargains. Even if it goes to court they are more likely to get a harsher sentence. If they go to trail they are more likely than not to get jurors who will be against them and not be impartial. If they are only tried by a judge then impartiality is also in jeopardy because most judges run on the policy of being hard on crime and letting supposed terrorists go would flush their chances at reelection. Second, like another person mentioned, I doubt many criminals will be happy to receive people who are deemed guilty to be terrorists and sent to prisons, thus most likely putting their lives and or well being in danger which will beg the question of whether or not they would have been better off staying in Gunatanamo in the end or not.

 

[LewsTherin]

I do detect the heady odour of fascism on some of these posts.

On topic, closing illegal, unconstitutional, and unethical torture camps is always a good move.

 

[dantheman931]

Even if the Constitution doesn't apply, the Geneva Convention still does. Torture is illegal, period, and its "benefits" are questionable at best. I've heard a lot of people (rednecks) say that because they're terrorists, they don't deserve the same rights as the rest of us, but (1) the people being held at Gitmo weren't necessarily terrorists, or even guilty of anything, and (2) it still doesn't justify sinking to their level even if they are. That's the kind of playground mentality that most of us grow out of around the time we stop thinking of nose picking as a hobby.

I'm sick of Americans being treated like a bunch of fucktards because of Bush and a bunch of bat-fucking-insane right-wingers. I voted against that fucker twice, and I voted for Obama because McSame wouldn't have been any better than Bush. Even if closing Gitmo doesn't solve anything, and I'm not convinced it won't, it's still no worse than leaving things the way they are.

 

[Knight Templar]

You do need a place like that, just run legaly. By a place like that I mean a detention centre, not a torture camp.

So colsing *that* place is a good step, but if you keep capturing people you're going to need a place to put them.

 

[sheic99]

The number 1 reason why Guantanamo Bay should not be closed is...

the prison they are planning to send them to is at Camp Peneldton, which is a within a few minutes drive of a working nuclear plant and easy driving distance to LA.

 

[Hman121]

I understand all of you bleeding hearts out there who are against torture, but really, how many people have died from, let's say, waterboarding? Zero. It is just a sensation of drowning and it gives the U.S. vital info so that the next thing, like Mt. Rushmore, won't be reduced to cinders. Without Guantanamo, how many buildings, monuments, and innocents lives would be lost? Over 3000 terrorist attempts have been thwarted by the Guantanamo officials using torture techniques in order to keep the U.S safe. Also, where are you going to put all of these people?!

 

[Hydrus]

The number 1 reason why Guantanamo Bay should not be closed is...

the prison they are planning to send them to is at Camp Peneldton, which is a within a few minutes drive of a working nuclear plant and easy driving distance to LA.

So what are you saying? That suspects will escape, steal a car, break into a nuclear power plant, somehow overload it single handedly and cause a meltdown, destroying LA?


I don't quite know what to say to that, other than.......no. Just no.

 

[joystickjunki3]

He'll just make another one later. This is just good publicity.

 

[sheic99]

The number 1 reason why Guantanamo Bay should not be closed is...

the prison they are planning to send them to is at Camp Peneldton, which is a within a few minutes drive of a working nuclear plant and easy driving distance to LA.

So what are you saying? That suspects will escape, steal a car, break into a nuclear power plant, somehow overload it single handedly and cause a meltdown, destroying LA?


I don't quite know what to say to that, other than.......no. Just no.

LAX, plant, prisoners. It could be a one stop shop for terrorists.

 

[Hydrus]

I understand all of you bleeding hearts out there who are against torture, but really, how many people have died from, let's say, waterboarding? Zero. It is just a sensation of drowning and it gives the U.S. vital info.

Epic humanity fail.

 

[Dark Crusader]

I can understand why he would do this but is it really a good idea? I mean we gain very useful information from torturing prisoners that save American lives. People can make the argument about it being a violation of the Constitution. But they are not American citizens so should they have those right? So is it a good idea? or a bad one?

Just wanted to ask all of y'all intelligent people out there.

It's an incredible moral decision, they ARE people too, but prehaps only in the most basic sense only physically so to say. Does one still deserve to be called human when one has, or has set-up a plan to kill innocent humans.
However, like it or not, ALL humans have base rights, not just US citizens, and they should be adhered too, prisoner and enemy or not.
I'd say that shutting down Guantanamo bay is a little extreme, stopping the torture is a good idea how-ever. The prisoners know they aren't getting out if they tell them the truth, torturing them won't change their opinion on this, all you are doing is giving them motive to tell you false information.

 

[yzzlthtz]

I can understand why he would do this but is it really a good idea? I mean we gain very useful information from torturing prisoners that save American lives. People can make the argument about it being a violation of the Constitution. But they are not American citizens so should they have those right? So is it a good idea? or a bad one?

Just wanted to ask all of y'all intelligent people out there.

Actually, studies have proven that information acquired in torture is shit. People will say anything if you stick ice picks up their toenails. Torture puts you into a state of shock, induces delirium, hallucinations, all sorts of fun stuff. It's like a little rollercoaster ride you'll do anything to get off.
A number of tortured prisoners are actually innocent.
Plus it's downright evil. I mean, kill a guy, imprison him, interrogate him with threats to his family, but you have to be pretty nasty to outright torture a person. Notice how you never see good guys using torture in movies...
So, yeah, you're pretty much wrong about the torture thing, so is everyone who thinks its worthwhile. It's not only evil, it's not only unproductive, but it's illegal. So, yeah. Basically, the whole Bush administration could legally be thrown in prison.
I imagine Guantanamo is being shut down because of its reputation. It's like a message to the rest of the industrialized world saying "The era of the idiot douchebags who used to run the USA is over, so you can go back to liking us. We'll stop torturing people like we all agreed to once upon a time, we won't walk out of important conferences anymore or anything. Please be our friends. Oh God, please."

 

[Avatar Roku]

Depends on how you look at it...

Bad idea... we're letting enemy combatants to be moved to places where they don't belong and giving them Constitutional rights as if they were U.S. born citizens. Honestly, they're not American citizens so the Constitution doesn't cover them.

so then by your definition. I have the right then to kill any tourist who I deem annoying and will be saved because "the constitution doesn't cover them?"

unless im missing something, thats kinda wrong?

Before you comment on the Constitution please read it, it may help alot.

Depends on how you look at it...

Bad idea... we're letting enemy combatants to be moved to places where they don't belong and giving them Constitutional rights as if they were U.S. born citizens. Honestly, they're not American citizens so the Constitution doesn't cover them.

Good... Well, they're moving them into jails with American criminals... many of whom will remember 9/11 better than most people and will save us money by killing the newly moved in people and sparing our beloved government the disgrace of dirtying it's hands. Chow line anyone?

wow your pretty much a sum of everything that is wrong with america, just because there not U.S. citizens doesn't mean they aren't human beings. they deserve a fair trial.

Better, but I do have to say, when we stretch things, where do we end up having to draw the line? If we are to give them "fair trial" as you say, does that mean we have to go get other Arab nationalities to sit in as jurors because that is the only way to have a "trial by peers" if they refuse to believe that any American is truly their peer? Also, I never denied that they aren't human beings, so don't put words in my mouth, that's an insult to anyone reading this.

No, I believe we're just saying that we should follow the things we say we will (the Geneva Conventions).

Even if the Constitution doesn't apply, the Geneva Convention still does. Torture is illegal, period, and its "benefits" are questionable at best. I've heard a lot of people (rednecks) say that because they're terrorists, they don't deserve the same rights as the rest of us, but (1) the people being held at Gitmo weren't necessarily terrorists, or even guilty of anything, and (2) it still doesn't justify sinking to their level even if they are. That's the kind of playground mentality that most of us grow out of around the time we stop thinking of nose picking as a hobby.

I'm sick of Americans being treated like a bunch of fucktards because of Bush and a bunch of bat-fucking-insane right-wingers. I voted against that fucker twice, and I voted for Obama because McSame wouldn't have been any better than Bush. Even if closing Gitmo doesn't solve anything, and I'm not convinced it won't, it's still no worse than leaving things the way they are.

*begins slow clap* Who's with me?

I understand all of you bleeding hearts out there who are against torture, but really, how many people have died from, let's say, waterboarding? Zero. It is just a sensation of drowning and it gives the U.S. vital info so that the next thing, like Mt. Rushmore, won't be reduced to cinders. Without Guantanamo, how many buildings, monuments, and innocents lives would be lost? Over 3000 terrorist attempts have been thwarted by the Guantanamo officials using torture techniques in order to keep the U.S safe. Also, where are you going to put all of these people?!

Wow, where to start? First off, it doesn't matter if people die, it violates the 8th amendment (no cruel or unusual punishment) and the Geneva Conventions. Second, Torture never gives reliable information, as people will say anything to get it to stop. Third, they'll be tried, the ones found innocent will be released to wherever we took them from, the ones found guilty will be put in the prisons which are actually legal.

 

[yzzlthtz]

I beleive that somewhere in the Bill of Rights it says something about cruel and unusual punishment?
Torture IS cruel and unusual punishment.

It's not that it violates our constitution that makes it so bad. The Bush administration made it perfectly clear that it didn't give a wet slap about our constitution.
It's more that it violates the Geneva Convention - an agreement our country signed along with numerous other countries. The Bush administration just threw that out the window, potentially tarnishing our relationship with our allies.

 

[thiosk]

Guantanamo ain't closed yet. I also have not seen any urgent iraq troop withdrawls, and we have a 50% force increase on its way to afghanistan.
i'm going to wager that the following occurs:

"unforseen circucmstances have delayed our decision to close guantanamo bay for indef inatly."
MR PRESIDENT MR PRESIDENT IS IT TRUE THAT YOU WILL BE APPEARING IN NEXT MONTHS SPORTS ILLUSTRATED SWIMSUIT ISSUE?
"Why yes, rachel maddow, I'm so glad you brought this important issue up. I will be appearing in the swimsuit issue-- in a swimsuit."

Few months of fighting an uphill battle there... hey... maybe a nice, out of the way place to send all these psychotic folks who ended up in afghanistan from god knows where would be a good thing. You know, like some sort of prison we can whip up on an island thats not connected to the US mainland... like at a military base or something, boy I wish we had a place like that so we could deal with these people...


o wait, we've already got one, and I bet we can get away with blaming bush while we continue to use it.

Believing in change in american policy after switching from the repubs to the dems is a lot like believing you'll see jesus when you die. Sure, it makes you feel warm and fuzzy, but you end up in the same box, getting eaten by worms. I could be wrong, he might end the wars and close the prison.

I just find it very, very unlikely.