Poll: Obama Shutting Down Guantanamo Bay. Good or Bad?
- Thread starter Fingolfin High-King of the Noldor
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This will probably bring nothing to the discussion but...
I saw The Daily Show the other day(In my country we have a month diference) and Jon Stewart was talking about this. If I remenber right he was talking about the concerns of having terrorists in US soil...then he showed a clip of some US network that on weekends spends an entire day airing a show like Cops(those shows were you see the police arresting people fo' real), then some American prisoner clips start poping up in one of them a prisoner says "I killed them then I ate their brains!"..
Jon's response to Guantanamo bay being locked is "I think if a country can handle brain eater it can handle a couple of crazy terrorists."
I saw The Daily Show the other day(In my country we have a month diference) and Jon Stewart was talking about this. If I remenber right he was talking about the concerns of having terrorists in US soil...then he showed a clip of some US network that on weekends spends an entire day airing a show like Cops(those shows were you see the police arresting people fo' real), then some American prisoner clips start poping up in one of them a prisoner says "I killed them then I ate their brains!"..
Jon's response to Guantanamo bay being locked is "I think if a country can handle brain eater it can handle a couple of crazy terrorists."
i dont see the point in closing guantanamo if the terrorists are willing to blow everyone up then they deserve to be tortured and even if they dont get any info out of them its still going to be fun
I don't know a lot about Guantanamo but torturing people and taking away their human rights seems wrong, even if they are terrorists. There's also the possibility that innocent people could get sent there. On the other hand, terrorists are bad and they need to be stopped. I'm an Obama supporter though, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now.
Oh, so if one is not American, he doesn't have any rights? That's the typical thinking US has been pursuing all the time. By closing Guantanamo US could actually have little credibility when they moan about other nations' human rights problems other than being the ludicrous hypocrites they've been for the past years under Bush administration.Fingolfin High-King of the Noldor said:
oliveira8 said:
I remember Guantanamo Bay Watch. There was an episode prior to that one where Gitmo (Elmo with a long beard) is being "interviewed". He says how he was imprisoned after someone false accused him because he wanted reward money. Gitmo then says that "Yes, Gitmo get trial, Gitmo go free, go home to Damasscus, get back in Taxi Cab, fill it with C4, AND DRIVE INTO EASTERN ENTRANCE OF BRITISH EMBASSY!! OILOILOILOILOILOILOILOI!!!!"
When questioned on this, he says when they caught him we wasn't a terrorist but he is now.
The point of this is that after being imprisoned, innocent people would feel vengeful torward the US and WOULD want to pull off terrorist attacks. They are also fed propaganda by the REAL prisoners and become these "72 Virgins" people.
So, once again, its a good idea. Close it, keep it closed.
Of course it should be shut down.
Its only use is as a symbol to (primarily) the american public that "yes, we're punishing those damn terrorists".
Practically, it has no use. Whatever amount of intel is gathered through the "interrogations" happening there is miniscule opposed to what international intelligence services provide, and as for placement of prisoners, there are plenty of other places to put those deemed as terrorists.
The worst part about Guantanamo, as I see it, is really the fact that a lot of people that got put there were never terrorists in the first place, but after the treatment they've gotten there's a good chance they decide to become one after they're released.
That, or they'll serve as mayor inspiration to terrorists around the world.
Close it down U.S.A, it wasn't a good idea to begin with
Its only use is as a symbol to (primarily) the american public that "yes, we're punishing those damn terrorists".
Practically, it has no use. Whatever amount of intel is gathered through the "interrogations" happening there is miniscule opposed to what international intelligence services provide, and as for placement of prisoners, there are plenty of other places to put those deemed as terrorists.
The worst part about Guantanamo, as I see it, is really the fact that a lot of people that got put there were never terrorists in the first place, but after the treatment they've gotten there's a good chance they decide to become one after they're released.
That, or they'll serve as mayor inspiration to terrorists around the world.
Close it down U.S.A, it wasn't a good idea to begin with
Well, you're making us accept some prisoners and their families and I say that is bad. We don't want your trash. If America wants to send the prisoners somewhere far away, so that the American public would be safe, keep them in Cuba. Remove Torture, Keep the Prison. That's all.
What?? You mean detaining people with no evidence, mostly because of their ethnicity, arresting them without a fair trial or without any rights, and subsequently torturing them to obtain information they don't even have can fuel hatred and terrorism towards your country?Giovanto said:
... Why that's nonsense! Good sir you've gone raving mad!
The posts in these types of threads always make me laugh. Americans really do believe Terrorists are monsterious beasts of destruction that hide under the bed, have chainsaws for arms and produce pure evil for piss.
Obama has taken the right step to a higher level of respect for the US with this move.
You trying to tell me they don't!?SomeBritishDude said:
Good lord so your theory is if it might result in useful info then pretty much anytrhing goes? Fairly sure the Nazis got some good biological data from all their experiments maybe they were onto something ey?Fingolfin High-King of the Noldor said:
Plenty of people in Gitmo were just in the wrong place at trhe wrong time not enemy combatants as they are frequently refered to. If America sees nothing wrong with torture of innocent civilians then I dont think it is worth protecting so much
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Yee
HE was an innocent American citizen who was looked up there. There are a lot of innocent people in Guantanamo including innocent 14-year-olds. He had to punished by getting a "time out." A few people are still there despite publicly admitted as innocent. We can't release them beacuse they might be mistreated.
America has lost any pretensions to a moral high ground with what's going on a Guantanamo Bay.
HE was an innocent American citizen who was looked up there. There are a lot of innocent people in Guantanamo including innocent 14-year-olds. He had to punished by getting a "time out." A few people are still there despite publicly admitted as innocent. We can't release them beacuse they might be mistreated.
America has lost any pretensions to a moral high ground with what's going on a Guantanamo Bay.
Closing Gitmo is a good idea. It was a legal loophole that the previous administration was using to avoid some inconvenient constitutional amendments like the 6th and 8th. I believe any one possibly linked to the September 11th attacks should be processed by the federal and/or New York court system and given prison or death sentences where appropriate.
Further more I don't believe we are fighting a war in the traditional sense. There has not been any official declaration by congress. The other side does not have a uniformed military or center of government. So captured fighters are technically criminals and treating them as such would be the best course of action. Put them on trial, imprison or execute them in proportion to their actions. We should not for one moment acknowledge the cause for which they fight has any more legitimacy than the Mafia.
However if we do want to treat these people like enemy combatants in a war we should acknowledge they hide amongst the civilian population and do not wear uniforms when engaging in combat with our forces. This makes them spies and saboteurs. Under the Geneva Convention we have every right to execute them.
Further more I don't believe we are fighting a war in the traditional sense. There has not been any official declaration by congress. The other side does not have a uniformed military or center of government. So captured fighters are technically criminals and treating them as such would be the best course of action. Put them on trial, imprison or execute them in proportion to their actions. We should not for one moment acknowledge the cause for which they fight has any more legitimacy than the Mafia.
However if we do want to treat these people like enemy combatants in a war we should acknowledge they hide amongst the civilian population and do not wear uniforms when engaging in combat with our forces. This makes them spies and saboteurs. Under the Geneva Convention we have every right to execute them.
Interesting note:
"Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy... 3. Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power. "
"Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy... 3. Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power. "
Ironically, the attempts Guantanamo Bay to gain insight to stop unpleasant instances, has actually catalyzed it - who knows, shutting it down may reduce international tensions