Poll: Obesity: fat people or true illness?

[Psycosis]

It could be both, 'coz I've heard of genetic cock ups where people can't actually stop putting on fat on so that's not their fault. On the other hand there are people who think that what they're doing is perfectly fine, until type 2 diabetes sets in then they think that it wasn't their fault.

 

[zeroyourpunctuation]

i definitally think that the whole i'm fat i have a illness thing is a lie. There have been people that have made it out of fatness. It's just the people who are to lazy to get off their couch and exercise are the people that complain.

Did anybody else hear that thing a couple years ago about some fat people trying to sue McDonald's because they said that McDonalds made them fat.

 

[olicon]

That's a lot of heated debate. Let me chime in a little bit: I consider obesity to be like allergy. Some people are prone to it, but they can usually avoid the stuff that really pushes them over the edge. For example, I'm allergic to fur. If I'm around fur, then ..it's just not pretty, aite? So I stay away from them.
Similarly, some people are prone to being fat (slow metabolism and what not). However, they can still control their eating and exercise. They might have to work harder than others to stay in shape, but it's usually possible to do.
Then there are always the extreme case. Not sure how it works with obesity, but I'm talking about people who are allergic to water/sun light and stuff like that. These cases are rare, but they certainly are real.

 

[SsilverR]

doctors words change like the tides ... and they're constantly thinking of new ways to make people feel better about themselves ... so saying obesity is a disease sounds better than "oh shit i eat 50 twinkies every day and i can't be bothered to exercise" .. i don't trust a word the docs say .. my uncle was got lung cancer a year ago and they told him he was going to definately die in 4 months .. here 3 years later he's still around

'Overeating is not the sole cause of obesity, but it is part of the weight maintenance equation' - from Brannon, L & Feist, J, 2007. 'Health Psychology - an Introduction to Behaviour and Health 6th Edition' Thomson, USA.

-The World Health Organisation also acknowledges that obesity is a world-wide problem which also affects many developing countries. - From Kumar, P & Clark, M, 2005. 'Clinical Medicine - 6th Edition', Elseiver Saunders, USA.

I would pull out more textbooks and quote from them, but I have to go to work now. Also trust your doctor, they know a lot more than you do. Please.

EDIT: I'll pull out more info when I get home tonight.

i have my reasons not to trust doctors ... yeah look around you though .. look at how expensive healthy foods are and how cheap pure lard is ... people taking their car just to drive 2 blocks to a shop ... seriously man there is a reason for it ... it can't be a disease because nothing new is forming in the body .. just fat ... that's like saying every bit of food we ever eat is riddled with diseases

and about docs .. sorry man .. docs and psychologists are red in my book

 

[SsilverR]

and no .. first off you don't know shit about me ..

I know you're the kind of person that flies off the handle just because another person points out an aspect to something you said that you hadn't considered

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/18.92284.1470723

That...speaks volumes about you in my book.

**clap clap** fucking amazing ... please continue .. what else besides the obvious?

Oh, I think pointing out that you're too immature and/or too lacking in self-control to have a calm, rational discussion is enough for one thread.

actually no .. everyone does things their own way .. i didn't call you a poo poo face or a noob or any of that shit .. the reason i came off so strong is because i feel so strongly about it ..

I know. That's why I said "you're too immature and/or too lacking in self-control to have a calm, rational discussion is enough for one thread."

also lets get back to the argument of whether being fat is an illness .. stay on topic

Okay--anemia is considered an illness, and it is sometimes the result of not eating enough cheeseburgers. Obesity is sometimes the result of eating too many cheesburgers. Anemia is too little iron in your blood. Obesity is too much fat in your fat cells.

So...either you've got to say anemia isn't an illness, that obesity is, or explain what's wrong with what I said.

#

people have different ways of getting their point across ... there's no correct way to speak

There is, however, a *polite* way to speak.

.. yes but obesity is not the disease .. it's what an eating disorder can lead to

An eating disorder can lead to anemia. In fact,

Anemia is a common result of anorexia and starvation. In one study, 38% of anorexic participants had anemia. A particularly serious blood problem is pernicious anemia, which can be caused by severely low levels of vitamin B12. If anorexia becomes extreme, the bone marrow dramatically reduces its production of blood cells, a life-threatening condition called pancytopenia.

http://www.umm.edu/patiented/articles/how_serious_anorexia_nervosa_000049_5.htm

too much fat in your cells is just extra stuff .. it's not eating away at you, it's not a virus

So...you're saying "too much fat" isn't a health issue?

and it can be reduced at any time

So can certain types of anemia. By eating a cheeseburger.

yes but all these are kicked off by a mental health issue ... too much fat is definately a health issue but not a disease ... like i said to the other guy there is nothing new or deadly forming in the body ... just pure fat ... it's like saying all our cheese burgers are riddled with disease or we should replace the word fat with disease in the back of food cartons

 

[Ago Iterum]

Well it's fact that it's both... There are glandular issues that can cause obesity, and there are people who eat too much.

 

[sharpshooter188]

Im going with illness as bs as that sounds. Some big people are just...big.... no matter what they do they will not be able to cut down to that 10 out of 10 body.

However there are the others who complain consistently of their weight and they have been skinny before. the type that sue mcdonalds because they couldnt stop after the first 13 burgers.

Id view it more of an illness though. Some people simply do not have the will power to break the habits.

 

[Mrsoupcup]

Well they say its a hole iside but so few get help. I think its sick. There are people who have only a couple noodles for there meals and here is our society eating our selves to death... literally...

 

[Mrsoupcup]

it's not an illness because it was self induced

If I have sex with someone who has an STD, is it therefore not an illness if I wind up with the STD?

2 different things ... fair enough in both scenarios it's the persons fault ... but obesity is not a virus ... it's the YOU eating all the food and not working off the calories

What does it matter if it's you doing it or a virus from the standpoint of calling it an illness?

If I don't get enough iron in my diet, my anemia is still an illness, isn't it? Even though it has to do with what I'm doing to myself by way of the choices I make in what I eat?

nothing is making you eat those cheeseburgers

Nothing is making people with anemia not eat cheeseburgers.

... fuck fat people they should get a sense of responsibility and start taking care of their bodies

That's...quite a cogent and relevant response.

ok 1 .. not doing something isn't the same as doing something ... no illness makes you pick up a chesse burger and eat it .. but an ilness CAN prevent you from doing so

and yeah ... i've never been one to beat around the bush for long ... STOP FUCKING COMPARING LACK OF SELF CONTROL TO DISEASES!!

Well honestly I still think fat people just like food. There are children who have like a cup of noodles for all of thier meals and we eat loads of crap. See what don't get about you silver is, if you can't control eating then stuff your face with SALADS!!!

 

[soren7550]

Fatness is not an illness! It's a self inflected dumb ass decision way of life. They can stop going to Micky D's forty times a day. No one is making them go.

 

[Mrsoupcup]

Well they say its a hole iside but so few get help. I think its sick. There are people who have only a couple noodles for there meals and here is our society eating our selves to death... literally...

The "people who have only a couple noodles for there meals" are not in that position because of those who are "eating our selves to death" so I don't see why you think it's sick.

Overeating has nothing more to do with nutritional poverty than Uwe Boll's right to show his movies has to do with the repression of political dissent in countries without a right to free speech.

I get what you mean but I still can't help but think its cased by American greed/ Depresion. I don't here of 400 pound fat people in Europe very often...\

Edit: I wasn't trying to flame silver it just when fat people say it a disease I think thier full of shit. Still it is nice talking to someone with a working brain.

 

[Inverse Skies]

i have my reasons not to trust doctors ... yeah look around you though .. look at how expensive healthy foods are and how cheap pure lard is ... people taking their car just to drive 2 blocks to a shop ... seriously man there is a reason for it ... it can't be a disease because nothing new is forming in the body .. just fat ... that's like saying every bit of food we ever eat is riddled with diseases

and about docs .. sorry man .. docs and psychologists are red in my book

I'm not saying the current situation is right and yes, it is a shame about how the healthier foods are always the most expensive. It's why people of a lower socio-economic status are always the ones who have the most health problems (them and the elderly).

I'm also sorry you feel that way about doctors and wish that any experiences that might have happened to you to make you feel that way never to have happened.

However, in the interests of debate...

Disease can be defined as any abnormality or failure of the body to function properly and this may require medical treatment
... it is characterised by an EXCESS (my emphasis) of fat in the body, particulary under the skin and is generally recognisable when a person is 20% above their IBW (Ideal Body Weight)

From- Ahmed, N, Dawson, M, Smith, C & Wood, E, 2007. 'Biology of Disease', Taylor & Francis Gorup, New York, USA.

The number of obese adults in the United States is 75% higher than it was 15 years ago. And much of the world is following the same trend, recently leading the World Health Organisation to coin the new word globesity to describe the worldwide situation.
... The causes of obesity are many, and some remain obscure. Some factors that may be involved are the following:
-Disturbances in the leptin signalling pathway
-Lack of exercise
-Differences in the 'fidget factor'
-Differences in extracting energy from food
-Hereditary tendencies
-Development of an excessive number of fat cells as a result from overeating
-The existence of certain endocrine disorders such as hypothyroidism
-An abundance of convenient, highly palatable, energy-dense relatively inexpensive foods
-Emotional disturbances in which overeating replaces other gratifications
-A possible virus link.

From - Sherwood, L, 2007. 'Human Physiology - From Cells to Systems 6th Ed', Thomson Brooks/Cole, USA.

If you still don't believe me that obesity is a diseade EVEN after I've provided you with fully referenced information as to why it is a disease (remember - disease is ANY abnormality in the body and obesity is an excess of fat - abonormality = disease) then I challenge you this;

- Find me a referenced credible source of information ie journal article and/or textbook which backs up your viewpoint. If you cant then you'll lose this debate. Simple.

 

[Inverse Skies]

I get what you mean but I still can't help but think its cased by American greed/ Depresion. I don't here of 400 pound fat people in Europe very often...\

Edit: I wasn't trying to flame silver it just when fat people say it a disease I think thier full of shit. Still it is nice talking to someone with a working brain.

I would like to point you to my previous two posts in this discussion (numbers 319 and 297) which provide fully referenced sources of information as to why obesity is a disease.

Thinking they're 'full of shit' just because they're overweight shows a ignorance and arrogance about their situation which astonishes me. Grow up kid.