Poll: Question for people in the UK.
- Thread starter Srkkl
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I never support a side in war.
There are only greater losers, and lesser losers. I couldn't care less who won, or who wins in the future, we're still killing each other and it is that very fact that makes me wish Aliens would intervene and show us the error of our ways.
There are only greater losers, and lesser losers. I couldn't care less who won, or who wins in the future, we're still killing each other and it is that very fact that makes me wish Aliens would intervene and show us the error of our ways.
I'm English and have to say not really. It's not really a big thing over here, we tend to either focus on 1900+ wars or pre 1500 wars. The main reason most people have heard it over here is due to American films and TV programmes. When you say the War of Indenpendence the first thought to cross our (well mine anyway)is of Independence day, even if it is only for a split second.
I think we British don't care is because we have fought so many countless wars in the past we dont really remember. The American War of Inderpendance does not really stand out- The Hunderd Years war, World Wars One and Two and the Napelonic Wars were much more interesting.
No. No we're not. We realise that Colonialism was a bit of a dick move (to say the least) and we've put that stuff all in the past. (Personally I don't see why colonial Europe, escpecially Britain, is hated so violently - there was nothing we did that the Romans didn't do, and worse. Not saying that colonial Europe was good, I'm saying that the fact that the Romans were older didn't change the fact that they were arseholes too.) No, the reason that Britain, Europe and indeed most of the world hates America is because, as a nation (and I stress, AS A NATION - American people (those I've met, at least) are some of the nicest in the world), over the course of the last century, have completely fucked a lot of things up. Also, Americans are generally too quick to atribute any major achievment to their country (although that is probably the fault of Hollywood, who seem to think that every major advance and achievment in the past 500 years has been American - U571, anyone? Among countless others). However, I am stereotyping. Every nation has problems drilled into it by its culture, government or media, with no exceptions. For example, my country, Scotland, has severe problems with violence, drinking and obesity. It's a stereotype, but why are stereotypes stereotypes? Because they're kind of true. Obviously, all stereotypes are simply exagerations of the fact that a country/culture has slightly more of that problem then another. That doesn't change the fact that the Scots invented the Steam Engine which powered the Industrial Revolution, the telephone, the radar, the television or the radio, and it doesn't change the fact that America is a great nation with many significant achievements.
Anyway, I've gone off on a tangent. Back on topic, I generally find that Americans care a lot more about the civil war then we do. You tend to view it as the rise of a great, independant nation of freedom and true democracy, while we just tend to view it as one of those things which happened. Everyone likes to remember their victories, I guess.
Anyway, I've gone off on a tangent. Back on topic, I generally find that Americans care a lot more about the civil war then we do. You tend to view it as the rise of a great, independant nation of freedom and true democracy, while we just tend to view it as one of those things which happened. Everyone likes to remember their victories, I guess.
I think most British would happily agree that Churchill could be truthfully described as both an inspiring leader who was exactly what this country needed in wartime, and also a complete and utter asshat in pretty much every way it's possible to be one, and see no dichotomy. That's objectivity for you.brainfreeze215 said:
As for the revolutionary war: nope, don't really give a damn myself. The Irish struggles had some pretty major effects on the lives of my parents, and by extension myself (I probably would actually BE Irish if it wasn't for the bombings that occurred around about the time I was born) so they hit much closer to home.
With films like The Patriot:
Ho-lee Shite!
Roland Emmerich is one sick fucker.
Nah, but this doesn't affect me, you have to consider that the Brits back then are very different from the Brits of today, there have been so many class wars over privilege, social justice and colonialism... it's a bit like us being angry at the Africans for kicking us out of Africa. You could see this as the first successful anti-colonial war.
Ho-lee Shite!
Roland Emmerich is one sick fucker.
Nah, but this doesn't affect me, you have to consider that the Brits back then are very different from the Brits of today, there have been so many class wars over privilege, social justice and colonialism... it's a bit like us being angry at the Africans for kicking us out of Africa. You could see this as the first successful anti-colonial war.
Honestly, it's only the overly patriotic ones who yell about how America is better than the UK due to a war so mentioning the Vietnam war usually puts them in their place.Irridium said:hehe, we totally fucked that one upRiobux said:
Anyway, as an american, I honestly don't care that much.
Trust me, your not the only ones who hate the overly patriotic ones...Riobux said:Honestly, it's only the overly patriotic ones who yell about how America is better than the UK due to a war so mentioning the Vietnam war usually puts them in their place.Irridium said:hehe, we totally fucked that one upRiobux said:
Anyway, as an american, I honestly don't care that much.
Now is it Godwin's Law to point out another state in Europe that might have done a LOT MORE to screw things up for the 20th century? I don't think it is Godwin's law because I am not saying a certain entity is LIKE Nazi Germany, more precisely that they are NOT like Nazi Germany, that kicked up a huge shitstorm and then the communist expansion in the years after WWII... And I'm not going to say that USA "saved us" but Churchill certainly thought it was good for USA to stop remaining neutral.meowman said:
Yeah, because no country EVER proudly proclaims positive things they contribute to the world, that is just SOOO strange for ANY country to do. Yeah, most people of countries all over the world spend their spare time taking every opportunity bad-mouth-ing their own heritage. And if they ever make a film about historical events they always make sure to cover event that they have nothign to do with... because audiences will relate more to those[/sarcasm]
Seriously, we (Brits) made Dam-Busters not because it was that significant to World War 2 but because it was OUR story. France made Army Of Shadows because it was THEIR story and they of course are going to make it seem like it was a major contribution.
At the end of the day only idiots go to see films seeking accurate historical representations, it's just entertainment.
I don't know how things are in Scotland but go into a Pub in Dorset and you won't find yourself wanting for someone to proudly proclaim that England is God's great gift to the world. Take a poll and most of them want us to take back the colonies!
I say give it back. But I'm half Scottish, so half of me is designed to be separatist! I'm just pissed off that the troubles have gone on for so long and have now become too confused to make a nice clean split.Furburt said:
On topic - I really don't care about the American War of Independence, you can have that one...........as long as you all promise to stop re-writing all of history from that point forth!
Of course not. Nothing I said in my previous post was true, or if it was it was no more true in America then anywhere else. Of course the Nazis screwed more shit up then the US, and so did the USSR after them and Britain before them. And there is nothing wrong with patriotism - people of all nationalities generally belive that their countries are superior to what they actually are, and it is a gift as well as a problem.Treblaine said:
The reason I said all these things was that this post seemed to be asking if the reason that many people, in Britain in particular, hate America and Americans, is the revolution. The poll has shown that it clearly isn't. I simply tried to go one step further and explain the opinions and reasons held by those who do harbour hate for Americans. I realise most Americans probably know this already, but I wouldn't know - I've only ever met (and got to know) Americans who had been living in a foreign community for some time. I realised that my post would cause offence to some, but that was not the reason for the post.
I wish it to be clarified that these racist Anti-American views are not my own. Americans are good people. I do hate the American government, but I'm sure that if any other current government ruled over a country as powerful as the USA they would do just as terrible a job - in other words, I hate them no more then I hate any other world government.
No, some old people might still be a bit angry withn the Germans over WWII, but something that happened over 200 years ago? No one really gives a shit.
As for being better off if we'd won, that's really difficult, there are so many things that could have happened differently in the meantime it's impossible to tell what the effects would have been.
Best case scenario would be the whole of now USA willingly part of the British Empire, maybe Canada and Aus would have been less keen to gain political independance meaning the 1st world war and 2nd if it came along would be more easily won by the UK and ending up with the British Empire being easily the largest and most powerful organisation on the planet by a very long way. The power of the US, Canada, UK, Australia, NZ, India, half of Africa and the SE Asian bits, not to mention all those oil rich middle eastern countries like Iraq, Jordan
, Kuwait, U.A.E, Oman, Bahrain, Qatar, Yemen, Palestine (joy...). If it had gone down like that or something similar, then yes I think you would have been "better off". How likely that would have been is anyones guess.
As for being better off if we'd won, that's really difficult, there are so many things that could have happened differently in the meantime it's impossible to tell what the effects would have been.
Best case scenario would be the whole of now USA willingly part of the British Empire, maybe Canada and Aus would have been less keen to gain political independance meaning the 1st world war and 2nd if it came along would be more easily won by the UK and ending up with the British Empire being easily the largest and most powerful organisation on the planet by a very long way. The power of the US, Canada, UK, Australia, NZ, India, half of Africa and the SE Asian bits, not to mention all those oil rich middle eastern countries like Iraq, Jordan
, Kuwait, U.A.E, Oman, Bahrain, Qatar, Yemen, Palestine (joy...). If it had gone down like that or something similar, then yes I think you would have been "better off". How likely that would have been is anyones guess.
While I probably shouldnt generalise everyone with a contrary opinion I don't care enough about a post on a random internet forum not to:Srkkl said:
Those that do care are those that believe their national identify brings some form of superiority. Racists, of sorts.
I could not care any less, it would have been fun to live at the time when Britain controlled 1 third of the world but whatever.