Poll: Rap Music

[Zeke109]

For example I like listening to RUN DMC, public enemy etc as it not only does it sound good, the lyrics *GASP* actually make sense and on some level actually MEAN something, whether it be telling a story or making a political point.

Right, because rap artists don't do THAT anymore.

Wait...

really long list of rap music here. seriously.

I tried to remove the most obvious choices there, by the way.

Hooray for wikipedia lists!

 

[Mistah Kurtz]

What is it with paleoconservatives and bringing morality into everything? Oh, and hating black people and black culture.

I've never understood it.

The shallowness and materialism that pervades much of mainstream hip hop (along with all mainstream music really) is symptomatic of the problems in modern society. You might as well start talking about the evils and horrors of jazz, rock and roll, punk, and miscegenation as well.

What is it with rabid liberals always accusing people who don't agree with them of being racist?

I'll never understand it.

I don't think I need to point out the astounding gap in logic in your "X Thinks Bill Cosby is a better human being than Snoop Dog therefore X is racist" theory, but I'll restate that I don't hate black people, but I do have some very serious problems with urban "black"
culture (although to call it 'black' isn't entirely accurate as many people listen to hip hop and immerse themselves in the culture surrounding it, but it's accurate enough). I have the same problems with white kids who adopt the hip-hop culture, it's got nothing to do with race. It's got to do with the anti-intellectualism and reverence towards crime that pisses me off.

Stop trying to play the race-card to win an argument Eggo, those cheap liberal tactics won't work on me (or anyone else with a brain in their head).

 

[Mistah Kurtz]

I'm the farthest thing from a liberal, but that's a cute attempt at character assassination.

Just because I don't hate minorities doesn't mean I'm some sissy college hippie liberal.

I don't think I need to point out the astounding gap in logic in your "X Thinks Bill Cosby is a better human being than Snoop Dog therefore X is racist" theory, but I'll restate that I don't hate black people, but I do have some very serious problems with urban "black"
culture (although to call it 'black' isn't entirely accurate as many people listen to hip hop and immerse themselves in the culture surrounding it, but it's accurate enough). I have the same problems with white kids who adopt the hip-hop culture, it's got nothing to do with race. It's got to do with the anti-intellectualism and reverence towards crime that pisses me off.

The problems you have with black culture, even though they all exist outside of black culture, are all related to the very monocultural white upper class hegemony you seek to preserve.


But I won't try to rock the foundations of your world too forcefully.

I'm far from upper class, but cute attempt at character assassination you hypocrite.

You also seem to cling to that phrase "White upper class hegemony" - I presume you have some problem with white culture?

I state my position and my reasons for it, and your only defense is that I hope to preserve a 'white upper class hegemony' (and for your information there are minorities in the upper class, you EVIL RACIST.) without telling me why that's bad. Tell me about this "white upper class hegemony" - sounds like an oxymoron to me, considering that only a very small percentage of any given population could be considered 'upper class.'

Do you mean the tendency of white people to not embrace cultures who's morals conflict with our own? Please tell me what's wrong with this. What's wrong with preserving white culture? We ARE the majority in this country, don't we have a right to preserve our own cultures and values and not have to cater to people who glorify things that I'm against?

Although I don't know why I'm asking, I know what answer I'll get from people like you.

EDIT: True, many of those things I mentioned exist outside of black culture, but it is black culture in particular that GLAMORIZES them.

 

[Mistah Kurtz]

I'm a minority which is part of the white upper class. But that doesn't mean I think it's a good thing to perpetuate.

Oh man, you certainly are on a roll today.

What's wrong with being an upper class white?

EDIT: Also in the future please at least make an attempt to respond to my points instead of immediately resorting to ad-hominem.

 

[Mistah Kurtz]

I'm a minority which is part of the white upper class. But that doesn't mean I think it's a good thing to perpetuate.

Oh man, you certainly are on a roll today.

What's wrong with being an upper class white?

If you have to ask what jazz is, you'll never know.

Again, you made no attempt to even respond to my points or answer my questions. Stop trying to look wise - if you best someone in a debate then you don't have to try. You're just acting like a brat now.

 

[Marbas]

Some rap artists are awesome and crazy. Dalek...I can't make umlauts, cloudDEAD, DJ Shadow, etc.

I think rap gets a bad...well...rap because of a combination of classism and racism. I actually think classism is very undervalued when it comes to things like this.

 

[Trace2010]

I'm back again...

 

[Mistah Kurtz]

I'm a minority which is part of the white upper class. But that doesn't mean I think it's a good thing to perpetuate.

Oh man, you certainly are on a roll today.

I'm far from upper class, but cute attempt at character assassination you hypocrite.

You don't have to be upper class to perpetuate an upper class hegemony. I mean, consider the vast majority of Republicans vote against their socioeconomic interests.

I state my position and my reasons for it, and your only defense is that I hope to preserve a 'white upper class hegemony' (and for your information there are minorities in the upper class, you EVIL RACIST.) without telling me why that's bad. Tell me about this "white upper class hegemony" - sounds like an oxymoron to me, considering that only a very small percentage of any given population could be considered 'upper class.'

The USA has maintained a hegemony on the international stage even though they make up a very small percentage of the population. It's even easier when you're dealing with culture and socioeconomics and not population based metrics (which is what this is all about).

Do you mean the tendency of white people to not embrace cultures who's morals conflict with our own?

Nope, but that's a problem endemic in nearly all cultures, sadly. So don't worry, white culture is sadly just as inferior and backwards as nearly all others in that respect.

Please tell me what's wrong with this. What's wrong with preserving white culture? We ARE the majority in this country, don't we have a right to preserve our own cultures and values and not have to cater to people who glorify things that I'm against?

You already know what's wrong with preserving a monocultural hegemony...I mean, you just posted about it (and many people complained about it) in this thread!

Sorry, missed this post.

1. You assume republicans vote against their own socioeconomic interests. This is conjecture, not fact, and in my opinion a lie.
2.You make a valid point about the international adoption of american culture, but in america ask yourself which culture is most fashionable - black culture, or upper white culture? (It's black, by the way.)
3. In response to both of your last two arguments, I'll say that I don't see the benefit of a culture sacrificing it's culture, customs, morals and values for the sake of being more liberal and ending the so-called 'white upper class hegemony'

Edit: I just noticed the reason that I didn't see this post is because you edited the points in later without indicating it.

 

[colourcodedchaos]

I can understand why people listen to rap music. It gets people on the dancefloor gyrating their hips against one another. But it's bland, samey, lacking in je ne sais quoi. It's functional music for people who don't get nerdy about music because of all the White Lightning they drink or all the old ladies they mug.

The genre pales meekly in comparison with rock, though. I mean, rock's a very broad type of music, it can have violins and church organs and little boxes that go bleep when you push a little button on it, and although guitars are a near-ubiquitous aspect of the genre as a whole, they aren't totally necessary (see Keane, although you probably shouldn't because they're crap).

But rap... well, let's be honest here, there's only so much you can do with a muscular black guy in approximately fifty-three tonnes worth of bling shouting obscenities into a microphone. It simply doesn't require as much depth or musical proficiency as other forms of music, it's music at it's most raw and unsophisticated, at it's most... functional.

It does the job, but that's pretty much all it does. There are exceptions, of course, but rap and "nu-soul" (read: shit-on-a-disc) by and large doesn't have as much of a political bent as rock. Rock musicians often try to change something. Most rappers don't care about any world other than their own, and it's not difficult to see why - if they are to be believed, then every black or Latino man in America and Britain commits about eighteen murders before their hearty breakfast of cheap crack, bitches and bullets.

Also, name me one openly gay rapper.

That's another problem with it. In the testosterone-and-God-steeped world of rap music, homosexuality is liable to get you shot or worse. It's a poor shout that people who've (supposedly) worked long and hard to get off the mean streets of Shit-Coated Tenement Block X use their time in the recording studio to bash the gay community. What the fuck did WE do?

Okay, rant over now. Buy yourself an ice-cream. And if you're an amateur rap star in the making, then I know a gelateria that does a cracking heroin flavour.

 

[Marbas]

Long post

You know very little about Rock and Rap. For every GANGZTUGH Rap artist there's a Nu-Metal angster.


Check out:
Cage
cloudDEAD
Aesop Rock
Dalek

 

[Mistah Kurtz]

1. You assume republicans vote against their own socioeconomic interests. This is conjecture, not fact, and in my opinion a lie.

Well, in your opinion, do you believe social programs help the wealthy or the poor the most?

2.You make a valid point about the international adoption of american culture, but in america ask yourself which culture is most fashionable - black culture, or upper white culture? (It's black, by the way.)

Upper white culture may not be as "fashionable" as black culture, especially considering how many facets of black culture have been appropriated by upper white corporate culture, but when you want to actually raise a family, it is certainly far more useful.

3. In response to both of your last two arguments, I'll say that I don't see the benefit of a culture sacrificing it's culture, customs, morals and values for the sake of being more liberal and ending the so-called 'white upper class hegemony'

Ending a monocultural and socioeconomic hegemony doesn't destroy cultures and their customs, morals, and values unless of course, those who are enculturated by that culture weren't that interested in preserving it in the first place.

Considering it influences just about everything in the modern world, I don't think upper class white culture has that problem.

(Just to clarify I'm not sure how to use the quote system with multiple layers of quotes so I've been responding in lists)
1. Republicans don't oppose many social programs because they hate the poor. They oppose them for 2 main reasons:
1. Being a conservative means smaller government, and thus the attitude that people should not rely on the government, which contrasts the democrat attitude that the government is responsible for it's citizens well being. This is what I have a problem with - the 'government' means 'us' - the taxpayers. I don't believe I'm responsible for anyone but myself, nor should anyone be responsible for me. That isn't to say I'm opposed to things like welfare ENTIRELY, but they need vast reform - a system that allows people to live on government money for their whole lives has some serious flaws.
2. Conservatives generally have a give-a-man-a-fish attitude. If we have lots of social welfare programs to pick up people's slack, then where's the incentive to work harder? Of course there are people who are truly down on their luck and need these types of benefits to support their family for a SHORT TIME while they find a job. The problem is that this system gets abused by lazy people, and the money only encourages it.

3.

Ending a monocultural and socioeconomic hegemony doesn't destroy cultures and their customs, morals, and values unless of course, those who are enculturated by that culture weren't that interested in preserving it in the first place.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by ending a socioeconomic hegemony. Is that codespeak for redistribution of wealth? And to say that ending a monocultural hegemony doesn't destroy cultures' customs, morals, etc is tantamount to saying that outright war doesn't destroy cultures, because if the people were really interested in preserving them they would have fought for them harder. Yes, there are cases where countries who've been taken over have preserved their culture, but this is not the case 99% of the time - invading countries often do things like making it illegal for the citizens to speak in their native language.

 

[Trace2010]

"African-Americans who self identify as being enculturated in white culture aren't actually part of black culture"

1) So why is the hip-hop world turning to Barack Obama as the savior of black culture?

2) When do we begin casting out:

Malcolm X (similar views and Muslim faith don't save him from being articulate, eager to debate, and a snappy dresser in his time)
Martin Luther King (current "black culture" according to you does not adopt the very views he fought and died for)
W.E.B. Dubious (co-founder of N.A.A.C.P.)
Scott Joplin (for trying to write Dixieland "white")
Louis Armstrong himself (especially for "Hello Dolly")
Charlie Parker (let me keep the Jazzer list short)
George Washington Carver (made white structured educational system available to blacks)
Oprah Winfrey (her audience is bulk white middle class houswives)...
Every donor for every Division 1 university in the country (for which black athletes now benefit in the form of athletic scholarships)...
Will Smith (you probably disagreed with "Pursuit of Happyness"

and the anointed "Champion of Black Culture" in this year's Presidential election- Barack Obama?

 

[colourcodedchaos]

You know very little about Rock and Rap. For every GANGZTUGH Rap artist there's a Nu-Metal angster.

Check out:
Cage
cloudDEAD
Aesop Rock
Dalek

Nu metal IS rap. Nu metal is Limp Bizkit and Linkin Park and (to a lesser extent) RATM. And I agree, they are near uniformly crap. With the exception of RATM, who are OK in small doses. And I'll be sure to check them out, but they are quite obviously the minority. And whilst we're getting reggae (REGGAE! I ask you...) lyrics that say "shoot batty bwoy with my big gun boom" that will remain so.

Also, to Eggo, you have never heard of Culture Club.