Poll: Skyrim: The Armour complaint.

[Mrpersonface]

Let me tell you a story boys and girls, a long time ago there was a little RPG called final fantasy 7 and when it came out much rejoicing was done by all lovers of RPGs so the developers decided to make some sequels, and so FF8 was born it looked different to FF7 and they had simplified the experience gain and leveling system but this was a minor change and nobody gave it much thought, some time later FF9 was released its ability system was simplified and the games learning curve had been lowered but it was still a final fantasy RPG so the people were happy, Then FF10 came out unto the world bringing with it new ideas and the RPG lovers were joyous in thier revelry surely this was a sign of things to come, FFX-2's story however was much less engaging than FF10's and the RPG lovers began to worry then FF11 became an online game, then the developers released FF12 it was a FF game certainly but something was wrong the game was easier than the others had been there was less challenge the game practically played itself what horror had simplicity of design wrought, and then dear readers they released final fantasy 13 and the metamorphosis was complete their RPG had become an animation and woe to them all.

And the moral of the story is: When a developer starts taking elements out of their games or talking about simplification LET YOUR NERD-RAGE BE UNCONFINED

 

[Alchemist08]

Wait a moment, since when does clothing an rpg game make? People seem to be flaunting this arguement all over the place now. If you have less clothes with different numbers to combine, its now an action game and everyone most throw and absolute fit. So, the role-playing comes not at all from a great story with many options of progression, an ability to create several unique characters with widely varying play styles? Nope, seems the community is of the opinion, if there arent enough magical thongs and socks of smiting in the game, it must be an action game now.

For once can the gaming community be a reasonable bunch of people when it comes to forming a criticism of something they dislike?

 

[ChupathingyX]

If they removed the face generator and added premade faces instead, they could fit even more polygons on screen at the same time.
To increase performance further, why not merge the weapon and shield with the player model? It would of course suck for those who want to use any other weapons than a sword, but hey.. More visible polygons on screen at the same time!

Actually, why bother wasting performance on rendering the player model at all? Just restrict the camera to first person and add a floating sword in front of it.

Shut up! You're giving them ideas!

 

[ultrachicken]

People don't want change. Then they ***** about how nothing has changed.

QFT.

I'm fine with this. It's just like Fallout, which, last time I checked, worked well. I just hope they don't try to take too much from Fallout.

 

[Saelune]

I like making my character look cool and different. Know those cool characters with cool outfits in fantasy stuff? Do you think they wear one item as an outfit? No.
The Elder Scrolls is supposed to be a game of open-ended variety where you can do and be what you want. So how is limiting us more than Morrowind, (two games back) advancing the series?
I dont want TESX to have one long sword and 2 outfits that are one item each with only 3 spell schools, with 2 spells each.
Stop removing spells, weapons, armors, skills, abilities, variety, uniqueness.
Bethesda....you're making it harer to love you. Im tired of Morrowind being my favorite game. I want Skyrim to replace it...but this doesnt sound like how you do that.

 

[Vrach]

Well, I prefer having those features there (separate armor), but it's not a big deal I guess. I can imagine what they're coming from, having played WoW and witnessed a huge number of lower body armor that would never make it on screen as I was wearing a robe or something.

The enchanting thing isn't really a problem, they'll just give the 'chestpants' item more room for enchants and that's it.

 

[Sizzle Montyjing]

Its an issue becuase it removes more customisation, for fucking graphics.

I now have less parts to customize and enchant, giving me less options. Less options is bad.

But if you had more options then the filth-encrusted console gamers wouldn't be able to understand!
And we don't want that!
Because obviously console gamers just die when they see numbers...
From what i can tell, this just means that their will be less armour pieces, and i already hated the one full armour piece in Oblivion, which was that Dark Brotherhood spandex thing.
So, i'm not sure what Bethesda are trying to do here.

 

[William Dickbringer]

-SNIP-

I don't understand why they are getting upset most likely a modder will get upset and make a mod for it fixing it therefore they can wear armor however they want
as for me I don't care it's not a game breaker and people who are complaining are just bitching about nothing
it's almost as stupid as sonic fans complaining about sonic's eyes being colored

 

[ultrachicken]

I like making my character look cool and different. Know those cool characters with cool outfits in fantasy stuff? Do you think they wear one item as an outfit? No.
The Elder Scrolls is supposed to be a game of open-ended variety where you can do and be what you want. So how is limiting us more than Morrowind, (two games back) advancing the series?
I dont want TESX to have one long sword and 2 outfits that are one item each with only 3 spell schools, with 2 spells each.
Stop removing spells, weapons, armors, skills, abilities, variety, uniqueness.
Bethesda....you're making it harer to love you. Im tired of Morrowind being my favorite game. I want Skyrim to replace it...but this doesnt sound like how you do that.

There seem to be a few problems with your complaints. They haven't removed spells. I assume you're talking about the "removal" of mysticism, which was actually just merging the spells with other schools. Oh, and they have added what is essentially a new school of magic: the dragon shouts. They are all varied and have awesome effects. Plus, the magic system is now deepened by allowing you to combine spells. So what's the problem?

I agree that the removal of polearms is a bit annoying.

Did anyone use medium armor in Morrowind? It's by far the worst choice of armor type, with no real justification for wearing it. As for the increased armor slots, I don't feel that it added anything to the game to have to spend 10 hours hunting for a complete armor set. I like my armor to match, not to look like some kind of hobo who just picks up what he can find.

Let's review the skills that were in Morrowind and won't be in Skyrim: Spear, Athletics, Acrobatics, Mysticism, Long Blade, Short Blade, Axe, Blunt Weapon, Medium Armor, Hand-To-Hand. Sure, it seems like a lot, until you realize that with the exception of Spear and Medium Armor, you can still do all of those skills. They have simply been merged together so that the game isn't unnecessarily bogged down with extraneous stuff.

I don't understand how variety is being removed. Variety of what?

On the topic of uniqueness, I'll assume you're talking about setting. True, Morrowind had giant mushrooms and some weird creatures, but let's not forget that the majority of the game world is a bunch of brown mountains and caves. Very little has been revealed about the creatures of Skyrim, so I think that complaining about that is jumping the gun. As for setting, harsh, icy mountains juxtaposed by chilly tundras, birchwood forests, and rocky valleys are not as weird as certain regions of Morrowind, but I'll be damned if they don't look better. The region variety has skyrocketed and the aesthetics are ten times better. But that's just the wilderness. The cities all have a distinct Conan the Barbarian feel that you don't see very often in gaming.

 

[Gabriel Dragulia]

The only solution that they can do, keeping this system, in my opinion (there may be other, better solutions) is to add in more variety in the kit available to the player.

Well, to be fair, if you read the last line of the post from Bethesda, it actually says: "We can also make a lot more armors now, so the number and variation types are more than we've ever had." (which I just copy-pasted from the quote in the first post).
so, two pieces of armour become one... but you will get a lot more armours... so there's your solution found at least =]

 

[Saelune]

I like making my character look cool and different. Know those cool characters with cool outfits in fantasy stuff? Do you think they wear one item as an outfit? No.
The Elder Scrolls is supposed to be a game of open-ended variety where you can do and be what you want. So how is limiting us more than Morrowind, (two games back) advancing the series?
I dont want TESX to have one long sword and 2 outfits that are one item each with only 3 spell schools, with 2 spells each.
Stop removing spells, weapons, armors, skills, abilities, variety, uniqueness.
Bethesda....you're making it harer to love you. Im tired of Morrowind being my favorite game. I want Skyrim to replace it...but this doesnt sound like how you do that.

There seem to be a few problems with your complaints. They haven't removed spells. I assume you're talking about the "removal" of mysticism, which was actually just merging the spells with other schools. Oh, and they have added what is essentially a new school of magic: the dragon shouts. They are all varied and have awesome effects. Plus, the magic system is now deepened by allowing you to combine spells. So what's the problem?

I agree that the removal of polearms is a bit annoying.

Did anyone use medium armor in Morrowind? It's by far the worst choice of armor type, with no real justification for wearing it. As for the increased armor slots, I don't feel that it added anything to the game to have to spend 10 hours hunting for a complete armor set. I like my armor to match, not to look like some kind of hobo who just picks up what he can find.

Let's review the skills that were in Morrowind and won't be in Skyrim: Spear, Athletics, Acrobatics, Mysticism, Long Blade, Short Blade, Axe, Blunt Weapon, Medium Armor, Hand-To-Hand. Sure, it seems like a lot, until you realize that with the exception of Spear and Medium Armor, you can still do all of those skills. They have simply been merged together so that the game isn't unnecessarily bogged down with extraneous stuff.

I don't understand how variety is being removed. Variety of what?

On the topic of uniqueness, I'll assume you're talking about setting. True, Morrowind had giant mushrooms and some weird creatures, but let's not forget that the majority of the game world is a bunch of brown mountains and caves. Very little has been revealed about the creatures of Skyrim, so I think that complaining about that is jumping the gun. As for setting, harsh, icy mountains juxtaposed by chilly tundras, birchwood forests, and rocky valleys are not as weird as certain regions of Morrowind, but I'll be damned if they don't look better. The region variety has skyrocketed and the aesthetics are ten times better. But that's just the wilderness. The cities all have a distinct Conan the Barbarian feel that you don't see very often in gaming.

Im also taking into account of stuff removed from Oblivion that was present in Morrowind
Stuff removed/restricted since Morrowind:

Belts, gloves, pauldrons (L/R), greaves, split gauntlets, crossbows, throwing stars and daggers, varied potion bottles, varied soul gems, levitation, mark, recall, divine intervention (almsivi is regional spell, so omitted) clothes under armor, robes over armor, beards, short blade, axe, unarmored, medium armor(it still added variety, but i could be fine without it)

Im sure theres more.

Edit: I mentioned it, but to ensure you understand, by variety I mean that in Morrowind, a lesser soulgem and a greater soulgem were identifiable by sight alone as they had distinct appearances from eachother. Potions looked different based on more than potion/poison, but rather quality and weight. About 4 or 5 different bottles.
There were alot more styles of clothing too, and armor. And it was not all tiered. Everyone who wears heavy armor is going to wear the same armor at the same level. In Morrowind though, that is less likely. One set of armor, bonemold, was extremely varied.

I liked this. Is this purely visual? Yes. But video games are VISUAL. And this kind of detail I find more immersive than any level of "graphical power". Things look less amazing when its always the same thing.

 

[GrizzlerBorno]

ALL RPG games have a combined pants and shirts system. How come people didn't complain about this for Dragon Age? What about Fallout? What about fucking Mount and Blade: Warband? That's right I just brought THAT into the table.

Having separate options for pants is just unnecessarily obtuse. Getting rid of this tiny, little feature does NOT make the game "dumbed down".

 

[ChupathingyX]

ALL RPG games have a combined pants and shirts system. How come people didn't complain about this for Dragon Age? What about Fallout? What about fucking Mount and Blade: Warband? That's right I just brought THAT into the table.

Having separate options for pants is just unnecessarily obtuse. Getting rid of this tiny, little feature does NOT make the game "dumbed down".

The reason people are complaining is because in Morrowind the armour pieces were much more varied and you had more freedom in choosing your armour. Also in Morrowind you could wear clothes under your armour.

Ever since Morrowind the Elder Scrolls games seem to have less and less options for role-playing.

 

[emptyother]

I don't understand why they are getting upset most likely a modder will get upset and make a mod for it fixing it...

Sorry, modding isn't like magic.
Can't mod stuff like this. To achieve multi-part armor would need some serious hacking, then the hacker would have to redo every armor in game. If he managed to somehow do this, his mod would probably be incompatible with all other mods.

And why are we getting upset? Because sequels are supposed to be the same as the original or more. Not less.
What if they released Iphone 5 exactly the same as Iphone 4, but with 2 hours less battery? Would you buy it?

I will still buy Skyrim, but thats not because of what they removed, but because of what they added (Dragons! Vikings!). Because the saying "Less is More" isnt applicable to everything.

 

[Saelune]

ALL RPG games have a combined pants and shirts system. How come people didn't complain about this for Dragon Age? What about Fallout? What about fucking Mount and Blade: Warband? That's right I just brought THAT into the table.

Having separate options for pants is just unnecessarily obtuse. Getting rid of this tiny, little feature does NOT make the game "dumbed down".

Morrowind did not. Morrowind had tons of clothing variety. Thats why I complain MORE about it in a TES game. But I also wish Dragon Age and Fallout had variety. I played a mage in DAO, and I only ever wore two outfits...that sucked though. I did not get much variety to my character's appearance, and that hindered it.

 

[TheLoneBeet]

It's gotten to the point where I don't even care. I enjoyed having two different gloves or two different boots or two different pauldrons (remember those?) or pauldrons at all. They're slowly mashing pieces of armor into each other and it's just gotten to the point I don't care. Yes it's good for those who enjoy wearing a full set of matching armor. It's no good for those who like to mix it up. In the end it's not going to affect much gameplay (you don't really see your own character a lot unless you're playing third person which is ridiculous) so I just don't care.

I don't. Don't look at me like that.

 

[Yopaz]

"In most of the Nordic designs we created, the upper armor would completely cover the lower armor, making it unnecessary."

This is what I have a problem with. They're talking about armor like people only use it for how it looks and not for, you know, the stats.

And you don't think the stats and the actual use of stats will be changed according to this? If the full armour gives the same amount of defense as the individual pieces in Oblivion, no problem. If you don't need as much defense as you need in Oblivion, no problem. If this is however Oblivion where they removed two thirds of your defense, that's a huge problem. Now, did they make Skyrim as a mod to Oblivion where everything is the same except you get 2 pieces less of armour?

OT: I honestly think this is a good thing. It looks better when all pieces of the armour actually fits together. You get less of the WoW feeling with mismatched equipment as you progress.

 

[hawkeye52]

For the people who like to number crunch which according to a recent topic is about 50% this is an absolute ***** slap. We like to optimise for a reason

 

[Pat8u]

um so they are doing the same thing they did with the arena armour meh